44 Duncan Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 We can only hope! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Dizzle Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 38 minutes ago, Alflives said: I doubt there would be solid offers this far out from the draft. If there are teams trying to beat the rush than there could be... But rumours are rumours are rumours.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 3 hours ago, BabychStache said: Well now, that is interesting. I hate the idea of losing Tanev, but the rebuild must go on. Moving Tanev and potentially Edler leaves a giant hole on the defence... Tryamkin leaving hurts big time. it'll be real hard to watch: Gudbranson - Stecher Hutton - Sbisa Subban - Holm I don't think Edler is going anywhere, this season at least so it would be: Edler-Stecher Hutton - free agent or trade?/Guddy Sbisa/Juolevi - Gudbransion/ free agent or trade Edler and Stecher were a good pairing. Hutton and Guddy may work with a second try, and if Juolevi makes the team he could also pair with Guddy. Maybe we can pick up Bieksa and another draft pick from ANA. Even post-expansion draft they probably want to move him, or maybe we get him for cheap if they buy him out. I'd like to see Juice back for one more season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odjick_fan Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 5 hours ago, Mattrek said: You're all over the place. How the hell does Tanev get a Reinhart (unlikely even straight across) AND a 1st when Dallas only gets us basically a 2nd? Who the &^@# said I came up with those three options? Read the dam article I attached. all I said was the Dallas trade would be interesting if nichushkin was on the table. Of course the media pumped up Tanev talks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odjick_fan Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 5 hours ago, Warhippy said: Lol. So in 1 scenario we're getting the 8th overall AND former 2nd overall Reinhart In another we're getting the 17th a decent prospect and subpar prospect And in the Dallas proposal....29th overall pick? Fansided is as clueless as Eklund IMO. But dude then you offer Tanev and Bouchers rights for a late 1st a bad contract and the rights to a prospect that might never come back to north America. No....just...no So what your really saying is NO? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 What does everyone think Benning wants when Friedman said Tanev's price is "very high"? Drouin++? Something along those lines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 2 hours ago, J-Dizzle said: This guy quotes Botchford way too much to be taken seriously yah Botch is about as popular in this market as the norwalk virus. But it was interesting to see TO homer coverage being pretty much in agreement with CDC on value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 3 hours ago, CaptainLinden16 said: again, your plan is well and good if you get your guy at #12 or whenever; but what if you don't? What if Jim's board has a drop off at #9? It's not like the stock market. You can't instantly turn that #12 into a comparable value to the #3 in this draft in another trade. You are more than likely going to have to sit on the pick for a couple of years before moving it. I would want to make sure I actually wanted the player I drafted if I had to sit on the pick for a period of time. Beyond #10 you are getting left overs, maybe you get lucky and get who you wanted at #7 or even #3, but probably not. Then you may end up with someone who you don't think very highly of. Your mentality is fine if we are trading this pick within the first year, but I doubt that happens. Any who, I personally want Tanev gone in any case as I think he is out of the league in a couple of years with all of his injuries. Great player, but I doubt he ever plays an 82 game in a season, and I doubt he plays 250 more games. Any first round pick is likely to get us that amount of games in the NHL, so lets do it and hope its a gem. You're assuming JB has a guy in mind. Nothing he's said about this draft would point to that conclusion. The fact that's he's stated over and over that he's comfortable picking who ever is left at 5 and feeling he's going to get a foundational player would make one assume he doesn't have a specific guy in mind... Like J.R has stated befo re, JB also likely has players ranked in tiers. In tier 1 it's Nolan and Nico in tier 2 we can assume it's Vilardi, Glass, Hieskanen, Mittelstadt, makar, Pettersson in tier 3 it's Liljegren, tippet, Necas, in tier 4 it's Rasmussen, Foote, Tolvanen, Suzuki in tier 5 it's Brannstrom, vesalainen, hague, kostin A deal with Dallas guarantees you two players in tier 2, but it also cost you a 2nd round pick A deal with ARZ also guarantees two players in tier 2, you keep your second round pick which is another chance to add a top asset, and you also gain a (b or c) prospect A deal with BUF also guarantees two players in tier 2, it doesn't cost you a 2nd round pick, and again you also gain a (b or c) prospect A deal with TB guarantees you a player in tier 2 and a player in tier 4 (with the possibility that a higher tier player drops), it doesn't cost you any extra picks, but you also get a (b-b+ prospect) A deal with TO guarantees you a player in tier 2 and a player in tier 5 (with the possibility that a higher tier player drops), it doesn't cost you any extra picks, but you also get one (b-c) prospect and another (b-b+) prospect When you think about it in that aspect, the Dallas trade makes the least sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny in Vancouver Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 15 hours ago, Mattrek said: If Tanev is traded we don't lose Sbisa. I'm trying to decide if that's a good thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 16 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: You're assuming JB has a guy in mind. Nothing he's said about this draft would point to that conclusion. The fact that's he's stated over and over that he's comfortable picking who ever is left at 5 and feeling he's going to get a foundational player would make one assume he doesn't have a specific guy in mind... Like J.R has stated befo re, JB also likely has players ranked in tiers. In tier 1 it's Nolan and Nico in tier 2 we can assume it's Vilardi, Glass, Hieskanen, Mittelstadt, makar, Pettersson in tier 3 it's Liljegren, tippet, Necas, in tier 4 it's Rasmussen, Foote, Tolvanen, Suzuki in tier 5 it's Brannstrom, vesalainen, hague, kostin A deal with Dallas guarantees you two players in tier 2, but it also cost you a 2nd round pick A deal with ARZ also guarantees two players in tier 2, you keep your second round pick which is another chance to add a top asset, and you also gain a (b or c) prospect A deal with BUF also guarantees two players in tier 2, it doesn't cost you a 2nd round pick, and again you also gain a (b or c) prospect A deal with TB guarantees you a player in tier 2 and a player in tier 4 (with the possibility that a higher tier player drops), it doesn't cost you any extra picks, but you also get a (b-b+ prospect) A deal with TO guarantees you a player in tier 2 and a player in tier 5 (with the possibility that a higher tier player drops), it doesn't cost you any extra picks, but you also get one (b-c) prospect and another (b-b+) prospect When you think about it in that aspect, the Dallas trade makes the least sense. I like the logic work. But... 3 and 5 is better than the TO and TB deals from a pick perspective. So much depends on the players coming back in those deals as well. But you've shown there are a lot of good options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 28 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: You're assuming JB has a guy in mind. Nothing he's said about this draft would point to that conclusion. The fact that's he's stated over and over that he's comfortable picking who ever is left at 5 and feeling he's going to get a foundational player would make one assume he doesn't have a specific guy in mind... Like J.R has stated befo re, JB also likely has players ranked in tiers. In tier 1 it's Nolan and Nico in tier 2 we can assume it's Vilardi, Glass, Hieskanen, Mittelstadt, makar, Pettersson in tier 3 it's Liljegren, tippet, Necas, in tier 4 it's Rasmussen, Foote, Tolvanen, Suzuki in tier 5 it's Brannstrom, vesalainen, hague, kostin A deal with Dallas guarantees you two players in tier 2, but it also cost you a 2nd round pick A deal with ARZ also guarantees two players in tier 2, you keep your second round pick which is another chance to add a top asset, and you also gain a (b or c) prospect A deal with BUF also guarantees two players in tier 2, it doesn't cost you a 2nd round pick, and again you also gain a (b or c) prospect A deal with TB guarantees you a player in tier 2 and a player in tier 4 (with the possibility that a higher tier player drops), it doesn't cost you any extra picks, but you also get a (b-b+ prospect) A deal with TO guarantees you a player in tier 2 and a player in tier 5 (with the possibility that a higher tier player drops), it doesn't cost you any extra picks, but you also get one (b-c) prospect and another (b-b+) prospect When you think about it in that aspect, the Dallas trade makes the least sense. Fabulous post. Much appreciate the thinking. How does a deal deal with TO get us a propect from tier two? Same with Tampa? Is tier two more than 3-8? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 3 minutes ago, Alflives said: Fabulous post. Much appreciate the thinking. How does a deal deal with TO get us a propect from tier two? Same with Tampa? Is tier two more than 3-8? the canucks own 5th overall is the tier two being referred to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 1 minute ago, tas said: the canucks own 5th overall is the tier two being referred to Aren't two tier twos better than one? Kind of quality over quantity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedintwinpowersactivate Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 I don't know if anybody has mentioned this before, but any team that trades for Tanev are essentially getting 2 top 4 defenseman. How does this make sense? I'd argue that any defense partner that plays with Tanev instantly gets better. Look at Sbisa and Edler. If Tanev is healthy he can greatly increase the effectiveness of his partners. It's kind of how dynamic offensive centres can make their wingers look like stars. McDavid's wingers.... Crosby's wingers (Jake Guenztal)... Gretzky's wingers....Sedins and Anson Carter....etc. I don't think Tanev is being overvalued at all. He is undervalued, because it's so difficult to measure his influence on the game and his defensive partners game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 11 minutes ago, Sedintwinpowersactivate said: I don't know if anybody has mentioned this before, but any team that trades for Tanev are essentially getting 2 top 4 defenseman. How does this make sense? I'd argue that any defense partner that plays with Tanev instantly gets better. Look at Sbisa and Edler. If Tanev is healthy he can greatly increase the effectiveness of his partners. It's kind of how dynamic offensive centres can make their wingers look like stars. McDavid's wingers.... Crosby's wingers (Jake Guenztal)... Gretzky's wingers....Sedins and Anson Carter....etc. I don't think Tanev is being overvalued at all. He is undervalued, because it's so difficult to measure his influence on the game and his defensive partners game. Excellent point. You gotta believe Babcock would love Tanev. Tanev would turn Reilly (a career minus player every season) into a plus guy pronto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedintwinpowersactivate Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 5 minutes ago, Alflives said: Excellent point. You gotta believe Babcock would love Tanev. Tanev would turn Reilly (a career man bus player every season) into a plus guy pronto. Yah he could allow Reilly to explore his offensive game even further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 2 minutes ago, Sedintwinpowersactivate said: Yah he could allow Reilly to explore his offensive game even further. What the hell in a "man bus" player? I clearly need more meds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 3 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said: I have heard a hundred arguments, all CDC top shelf think tank members, presuming because Larsson fetched Hall, Tanev will. My opinion is Larsson is worth more than Tanev. A fair bit more. And also that Hall was achieved because of the status of the market at that time, and Edmonton's situation. So Jersey got a premium rarely seen. A market that will see us competing with guys like Vatanen, Ryan Murray, Hamonic or De Haan, possibly Fowler, Petrovic or Demers, and other good D, some worth more, some less, all on the market at the same time as us considering Tanev. Tanev is a player who achieves what he does with much better than average speed, but few, if any, other stand out physical features. One of the great players who thinks the game. Constantly executes effectively, efficiently. Cuts down angles. Closes out shooters. Is in the right position. Makes quickly the right pass or read. And he takes a hit, blocks a ton of shots, puts his body on the line. Remarkably efficient. I love Tanev! A 3rd overall, say Gabe Vilardi has a different level of stunning physical gifts and talents. Hall more so, because he add's amazing speed. They can run over guys like Tanev, regardless of whether in position or not. And have the skills to dangle and protect the puck, make plays with guys just as good, but bigger (like Larsson) on his hip while doing so. We can appreciate Tanev for his effectiveness and efficiency. Further still he does not own any magical ability to dangle the puck and skate it out of trouble. Duck defending forwards and streak to the net. Own a feared cannon of a shot that has to be respected? Larsson has one. Without great physical gifts and talents he is just not worth a 3rd overall pick, nevermind an established brute of a forward like Taylor Hall. Who have those gifts? We can appreciate him, but not overrate him. If he was worth what CDC says, a deal would already have been made. edit > So we should just keep him. And enjoy his play. So I guess your main arguments are that there are more top 4 Dmen available now as compared to when Larsson was traded AND because Tanev does not have the "dangling skills" of Vilardi. Has Vilardi played a game in the NHL yet? AND is there proof those dmen you described are available? I think there is a little speculation on your part as well as saying if there was a deal to be made then it would have already been made. I guess you can read minds or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedintwinpowersactivate Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 3 minutes ago, Alflives said: What the hell in a "man bus" player? I clearly need more meds. Ha Ha... I kind of knew what you meant! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 58 minutes ago, Alflives said: Aren't two tier twos better than one? Kind of quality over quantity? Depends on the quality of the quantity.. You're already guaranteed to get a player out of tier 2. So we will for sure have at least one of Vilardi, Mittelstadt, or Glass Is Mittelstadt better than Pettersson + Raddysh + Timmins? Is Glass better than Foote + Raddysh + Yamamoto Is Makar better than Suzuki + Kapanen + Bracco + Timmins? I would say that every player listed in the returns has a strong chance of being better than the extra tier 2 player when the all is said and done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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