Elias Pettersson | #40 | C

[khay]

5 hours ago, aGENT said:

We may very well go with Markstrom and Nilsson again. But it seemed pretty clear Green wasn't a huge fan of Nilsson as the year went on. Wouldn't surprise me at all to see us change things up there.

We need a new backup. Marky + Nilsson will be a disaster. Well, it will get us a high draft pick. So maybe we don't need a new backup.

[aGENT]

2 minutes ago, Rick Blight said:

Agreed, Babcock knows that gives him the best chance to win with that group. They think they can outscore the opposition if they get into a track meet.

But they don't have the horses to sit back and defend a lead or play anything like what we saw in the VGK vs LAK series and he'd be a fool to try to coach them to do so given their current personnel.

 

Add some solid defenders though and suddenly you have more weapons in your arsenal. More ways to beat teams and better able to hold leads heading in to third periods in game sevens... 

 

Because when you get to this point (playoffs) other teams are also going to be VERY skilled and be able to pressure you in the offensive zone when their playoff lives are on the line and not allow you to play your skilled, offensive, track meet of a game (and the defense to help shut you down when you try to) and then you, yet again, lose in the first round.

[Rick Blight]

5 minutes ago, aGENT said:

But they don't have the horses to sit back and defend a lead or play anything like what we saw in the VGK vs LAK series and he'd be a fool to try to coach them to do so given their current personnel.

 

Add some solid defenders though and suddenly you have more weapons in your arsenal. More ways to beat teams and better able to hold leads heading in to third periods in game sevens... 

 

Because when you get to this point (playoffs) other teams are also going to be VERY skilled and be able to pressure you in the offensive zone when their playoff lives are on the line and not allow you to play your skilled, offensive, track meet of a game (and the defense to help shut you down when you try to) and then you, yet again, lose in the first round.

Again, I agree.They need forwards that will provide back pressure as part of those "solid defenders" if they want to convert to a more defensively responsible type team. D-men get way too much of the blame for team's poor defensive play and I really think Toronto is a good example.

[Canuck Surfer]

30 minutes ago, Rick Blight said:

I think every d-man in the league, if on the Leafs, would be criticized as poor defensively given the style of play the Leafs employ. They play the highest risk/reward style of play of any team in the NHL. Their d-men are expected to pinch constantly at the opposing blue line and are constantly forced to try 90 foot passes as their forwards cheat by leaving their own end at the slightest chance that a d-man might get control of the puck. This style results in numerous turnovers and their d-men are hung out to dry.

I can assure you, and if you give it a think, you will realize Babcock is the last coach to play a ''risk'' style game on purpose. Its against his DNA.

 

Boston had more speed, on more lines. And coming up ice with the puck as D. Simple. Then there is Chara versus Toronto's D;

 

Chara stops people liike Matthews dead in their tracks. He also gets to pucks, and gets them up ice for transition plays.  Toronto's top line could not beat Chara, just like the Twins could not in 2011.  Toronto had Hainsey & Polak play 19 minutes a game average between them. They were alright. But were not feeding the puck up ice to forwards. They were chipping it up. Chara by comparison, even under immense pressure, was hitting guys flying up ice! When Boston had last man, they were in on Gardiner & Zaitsoff. Who got TORCHED by Bostons top line. And their 2knd line. And their 3rd. Never mind chip out, those guys were turning the puck over. They could not handle Bostons relentless pressure.

 

It wasn't the game style of the D. Its that the D were not good enough. Like us versus Calgary in Willies first year. 
 

37 minutes ago, Alflives said:

It’s those soft wingers jobs to slow down the other team.  WN is soft on and off pucks, or that was what the radio guys on 1050 were saying.  DeBrusk was often up against WN, and he dominated.  I think they might be the same age.  WN puts up way more regular season points, but look at the difference in how each guy effects the playoff games.  I see Pettersson as sup hyper competitive.  He’s going to be a beauty for us.  

Debrusk played great. But he was ''up'' on Polak & Hainsey. Zaitsev & Gardiner. Made their life hell. He was not shadowing Nylander. He was hounding the D!

 

Once the Leafs turned the puck over, was Nylanders game style suddenly going to be that of Janik Hansen? A guy to steal the puck back... Its also not his game style to go fish a contested puck out of the neutral zone on a chip when that is Hainsey & Polak's style. And magically do a zone entry. 

 

Boston was too good for Toronto. Toronto just does not have the horses on the back end to play at the speed of, or create all the breakouts for their forwards.   

 

 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Canuck Surfer said:

I can assure you, and if you give it a think, you will realize Babcock is the last coach to play a ''risk'' style game on purpose. Its against his DNA.

 

Boston had more speed, on more lines. And coming up ice with the puck as D. Simple. Then there is Chara versus Toronto's D;

 

Chara stops people liike Matthews dead in their tracks. He also gets to pucks, and gets them up ice for transition plays.  Toronto's top line could not beat Chara, just like the Twins could not in 2011.  Toronto had Hainsey & Polak play 19 minutes a game average between them. They were alright. But were not feeding the puck up ice to forwards. They were chipping it up. Chara by comparison, even under immense pressure, was hitting guys flying up ice! When Boston had last man, they were in on Gardiner & Zaitsoff. Who got TORCHED by Bostons top line. And their 2knd line. And their 3rd. Never mind chip out, those guys were turning the puck over. They could not handle Bostons relentless pressure.

 

It wasn't the game style of the D. Its that the D were not good enough. Like us versus Calgary in Willies first year. 
 

Debrusk played great. But he was ''up'' on Polak & Hainsey. Zaitsev & Gardiner. Made their life hell. He was not shadowing Nylander. He was hounding the D!

 

Once the Leafs turned the puck over, was Nylanders game style suddenly going to be that of Janik Hansen? A guy to steal the puck back... Its also not his game style to go fish a contested puck out of the neutral zone on a chip when that is Hainsey & Polak's style. And magically do a zone entry. 

 

Boston was too good for Toronto. Toronto just does not have the horses on the back end to play at the speed of, or create all the breakouts for their forwards.   

 

 

Actually, if Nylander played more like a young Hansen (off the puck) he’d be a heck of a player.  That’s why I like Pettersson so much.  The guy plays off the puck just as well as he does on it.  He’s going to be soooo verrry grrreat!  

[Baratheon]

39 minutes ago, khay said:

We need a new backup. Marky + Nilsson will be a disaster. Well, it will get us a high draft pick. So maybe we don't need a new backup.

Jack Hughes baby!!! Wooo!

 

Seriously though I don't think we'll be THAT bad next year lol

[Rick Blight]

9 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

I can assure you, and if you give it a think, you will realize Babcock is the last coach to play a ''risk'' style game on purpose. Its against his DNA.

 

Boston had more speed, on more lines. And coming up ice with the puck as D. Simple. Then there is Chara versus Toronto's D;

 

Chara stops people liike Matthews dead in their tracks. He also gets to pucks, and gets them up ice for transition plays.  Toronto's top line could not beat Chara, just like the Twins could not in 2011.  Toronto had Hainsey & Polak play 19 minutes a game average between them. They were alright. But were not feeding the puck up ice to forwards. They were chipping it up. Chara by comparison, even under immense pressure, was hitting guys flying up ice! When Boston had last man, they were in on Gardiner & Zaitsoff. Who got TORCHED by Bostons top line. And their 2knd line. And their 3rd. Never mind chip out, those guys were turning the puck over. They could not handle Bostons relentless pressure.

 

It wasn't the game style of the D. Its that the D were not good enough. Like us versus Calgary in Willies first year. 
 

Debrusk played great. But he was ''up'' on Polak & Hainsey. Zaitsev & Gardiner. Made their life hell. He was not shadowing Nylander. He was hounding the D!

 

Once the Leafs turned the puck over, was Nylanders game style suddenly going to be that of Janik Hansen? A guy to steal the puck back... Its also not his game style to go fish a contested puck out of the neutral zone on a chip when that is Hainsey & Polak's style. And magically do a zone entry. 

 

Boston was too good for Toronto. Toronto just does not have the horses on the back end to play at the speed of, or create all the breakouts for their forwards.   

 

 

Think we are going to have to disagree on this one Surfer.

Babcock had his D pinching at every possible opportunity. Even his slow skaters like Polak were caught out of position by pinching and that created numerous odd man breaks for the Bruins. In the defensive zone, Toronto's D was getting no support from their forwards down low or along the boards. When their D did get the puck, there were no forwards available for short breakout passes....they all had already blown their zone anticipating the 90 foot pass. It was the same way Chicago would play us but they would only have one player look for the long stretch pass.

They played that way right from the opening whistle of the 1st game to the end of game 7 so I think it is pretty safe to say that Babcock endorsed this style of play. I believe he felt his team had a speed advantage along with a slight skill advantage that he needed to utilize to give his team their best opportunity to win. Obviously, it didn't work for them and Boston was full marks for the series win.

As a side point, the following was part of the Sporsnet preview analysis of the Toronto/Boston series that supports the run and gun (high risk/high reward) style that Toronto utilized going into the series.

Tampa’s style lines up well with the Leafs’—they’re both teams that rely on speed and dynamic offensive skill to pile up goals on their opponents. There’s a bit of run-and-gun in there, and Toronto can keep pace with that approach. The Bruins? They’re a different breed, and they have plenty more ways to frustrate a team like Toronto.

[sonoman]

On 2018-04-22 at 3:01 PM, darinbadershouldamadeit said:

dirty dirty dirty

He was showing us some of those dirty moves at prospects camp

 

[Phat Fingers]

9 hours ago, Alflives said:

Well this is a Canuck's fan board, right?  Plus, even TO media and fans are saying Nylander is too soft.  They want to get rid of the guy.  Soft wingers, who do little outside the PP, who get 50 to 60 points are not overly valued.  Yet the Leaf's propaganda machine has made Nylander out to be a superstar, and (as a result) they are going to have to pay through the nose to sign him.  I'm glad of that, because the Leafs will wreck their Cap structure.

Nylander is a better version of Baer.  Both play a similar game and one is better at it than the other. Could we be better with Nylander, absolutely, will he ever be a guy who elevates his game in the playoffs, not confident in that. 

[Phat Fingers]

6 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

This is a good comparison. And no 60 points is not ''elite.''

 

But its awfully useful! Filip Forsberg for example scored 64 points in the NHL at Nylanders age. Has not been able to crack that since? But is widely considered invaluable in his teams attack & a star. Not a star in the calibre of Crosby, but really that should not be anyone's expectation of Nylander. Even in Toronto.  

 

In a post just above I noted that might / should translate to top years of 75 or 85 points? And probably reasonably consistent 55 to 70 point seasons. I also agree with your comparison that Bo at 50 points, considering what he does is more valuable. But no one should discount the value of a player who can still produce at WN's level.  We'll be fortunate, quite actually, for example, if Dahlen achieves that? 

You are fooling yourself. 1/2 of CDC is still crying over his loss. I'm not. But it does not mean he has to be diminished just because he is a Leaf?

 

(Well maybe he does, rivalries are fun as is trash talk. But my own preference is to respect good players. Even if they're not Canucks.)

 

Nylander looked great at last years world championships. Has scored on and off Matthews line. Played top line & 3rd line, and 2knd line. Has well above average puck control, slashing, passing and scoring skills. He has wicked speed & agility, a formidable weapon. Even if not the perfect well rounded superstar.

I am still firmly have a negative POV with Nylander. Great skill, good regular season player.  I don’t think his play will ever be effective in the playoffs unless he is on a stacked team and he can get sheltered minutes ala ‘Kessel’ in pits. Then he can be very effective. 

 

For the price he will command I am happy that we will not be on the hook for it. Pettersson’s game is more ideal for playoff hockey. I see tenacity in his approach to hockey.  

 

There are plenty of guys that carve out great careers playing he way Nylander does. He is always going to be behind Mathews and Marner.  That’s not a bad thing, but how much will they have to shell out for all three. 

 

With a team so weak at defence I would be looking to move him out and bring in a guy who can give them some support on the back end. Hainsey and Polack is not a pairing that will win you anything. 

 

That being said, Nylander for Tanev, sold. He is better than Baer l.  EP and Dahlen might just bring out some hidden Viking in him yet. 

 

 

Edited April 27, 2018 by Eastcoast meets Westcoast

[The Great 8]

23 minutes ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

Nylander is a better version of Baer.  Both play a similar game and one is better at it than the other. Could we be better with Nylander, absolutely, will he ever be a guy who elevates his game in the playoffs, not confident in that. 

It’s way too early to judge Nylander haha. Everyone says to have patience when it comes to our prospects because it takes time to develop. Well this is Nylanders second playoff he’s played in the nhl and he put up decent numbers as a 21y/o. I’m sure by the time he hits his prime at 27 he is going to get stronger and more accustomed to the playoffs and produce better. Last years playoffs Panarin only had 1pt, this year he was above a point a game. It takes time..

Edited April 27, 2018 by The Great 8

[Canuck Surfer]

4 hours ago, Rick Blight said:

Think we are going to have to disagree on this one Surfer.

Yeah your right, we'll disagree. I got bored of Vegas slapping SJ around so I did some research.

 

I just re-watched 3 games worth of highlights in games 2 thru 4. 12 goals by the Bruins. 2 were fails to hold the zone by Leaf D. FTR, neither of them were pinches for scoring chances. Just failed attempts to control a puck. One of which Gardiner missed the bobbling puck to the point that came when his man won a faceoff. Another 4 goals off other sloppy turnovers. So 6 goals off turnovers. 5 more  goals with extended zone time by the Bruins with little or no resistance. 3 where guys swooped all the way behind the net from one end to the other without being hit by a defenceman. A PP goal where Debrusk was left alone in front for a tip.   

 

Sloppy play, poor zone coverage...  

 

I have not watched games 5 & 6. Where I understand Boston badly outshot Toronto (78 to 50). But the Leafs won both games. So we cannot say pinches cost those games?

 

I also reviewed Game 7

 

Goal 1 for Boston was a PP tip in after a delay of game over the boards penalty.

Goal 2 for Boston was a dump in, then Nash hustles up the puck on the fore check. Pass, shot & rebound where no one gets back to help, Heinen scores. D has to clear that?

Goal 3 for Boston Bergeron walks around the boards again, gets a bit of a pick, passes to Miller at the point for a shot. Odd rebound off the boards & Bergeron scores.

Goal 4 for Boston which tied the game was a Krug point shot off a face off win.

Goal 5 game winner, Miller checks Nylander in Boston's zone, passes the puck up to DeBrusk who simply beats Gardiner who was not pinching & just turned the wrong way. 

Goal 6 Kadri & Zaitsev go back lazy to get to a puck chipped into their zone, get forechecked by Marchand, Pastrnak scores.

Goal 7 was a empty netter.  On goal 6 btw, Chara stood up Marleau at the blue line. Chipped to center. Someone chipped to blue line, someone chipped in for the forecheck.

 

I am going to go deeper than disagree.  I am going to suggest you watch the games. These were not goals off bad pinches, or pressing the play on aggressive coaching strategy as you suggest?  Yes they can score, but its poor defence, more sloppy play & poor zone coverage which cost the Leafs the series. They are just not a good defensive team Here is a link to game 7

 

https://www.nhl.com/video/recap-tor-4-bos-7/t-297851024/c-60103803

[Canuck Surfer]

1 hour ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

I am still firmly have a negative POV with Nylander. Great skill, good regular season player.  I don’t think his play will ever be effective in the playoffs unless he is on a stacked team and he can get sheltered minutes ala ‘Kessel’ in pits.

I don't have a total argument with this.  It would be better for the Leafs if he was also a stout defensive checker. He did also cough up the puck for Bostons series winning goal. And yup, deployment in the right game style can make a Kessel or Nylander a much more useful player.  

 

I also certainly agree that I like the fact Pettersson does back check, fore-check, hound the puck, press up & down the ice. 

[AlwaysACanuckFan]

 

[Phat Fingers]

4 hours ago, The Great 8 said:

It’s way too early to judge Nylander haha. Everyone says to have patience when it comes to our prospects because it takes time to develop. Well this is Nylanders second playoff he’s played in the nhl and he put up decent numbers as a 21y/o. I’m sure by the time he hits his prime at 27 he is going to get stronger and more accustomed to the playoffs and produce better. Last years playoffs Panarin only had 1pt, this year he was above a point a game. It takes time..

Panarin is a player in the same mold. 

 

Re read the post. I am not a fan of Nylander, likely never will be. My POV is that he is a secondary guy not a primary guy. Marner and Mathews (out of the 3) are the primary guys in TO.

 

Shut them down and you win, most likely. Nylander can be effective for the regular season, but like Kessel (an all star, Olympian and SC winner) he needs guys ahead of him on the depth chart to win in the playoffs. 

 

 

 

 

[Rush17]

Clip from the patcast on Elias Pettersson (size, world championships, Swedish SHL tradition etc)

 

 

Interesting seeing their body language well recording.  Pretty entertaining watch. Enjoyed the part of Sweden's coach lol.

[ELITE]

A lot of talk about Pettersson playing with Rakell and Zibanejad at the WC. That would be an amazing top line. Pettersson should play a top 6 roll, can’t see him playing in a ”watch and learn” line. Unless youre Sidney Crosby or Patrick Kane, you need top players to lift your game significantly.

[Alflives]

10 hours ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

Nylander is a better version of Baer.  Both play a similar game and one is better at it than the other. Could we be better with Nylander, absolutely, will he ever be a guy who elevates his game in the playoffs, not confident in that. 

Mrs. Alf just got back from our South Shore (Crescent Beach) house, and she noticed how many Leaf's fans there are down that way.  Most of them kind of hate Nylander, and really like guys who play are hard nosed game - like Crosby and Mckinnon.  Skilled and very mentally tough.

[Noble 6]

1 hour ago, ELITE said:

A lot of talk about Pettersson playing with Rakell and Zibanejad at the WC. That would be an amazing top line. Pettersson should play a top 6 roll, can’t see him playing in a ”watch and learn” line. Unless youre Sidney Crosby or Patrick Kane, you need top players to lift your game significantly.

 

If he got an opportunity on that line it would be great to see what he could do. 

[Rush17]

1 hour ago, ELITE said:

A lot of talk about Pettersson playing with Rakell and Zibanejad at the WC. That would be an amazing top line. Pettersson should play a top 6 roll, can’t see him playing in a ”watch and learn” line. Unless youre Sidney Crosby or Patrick Kane, you need top players to lift your game significantly.

Where is this talk coming from? He plays today or is it tomorrow? They scratched him the first game of the exhibition series.