Elias Pettersson | #40 | C

[joe-max]

9 minutes ago, BananaMash said:

Think of it kind of like a hierarchy of development. Assuming someone isn't suffering from an active illness or severely malnourished, it'll look something like this in terms of development speed: 

 

Muscle

Tendon

Ligament

Bone

 

The gap between muscle and tendon development isn't that wide. Likewise, the gap between ligament and bone development isn't that wide. For someone putting on 15lbs over muscle over the time-frame of multiple months, the difference in "gain" between muscle and tendon isn't going to be very wide. In addition to that, unless he has an underlying issue like osteoporosis (or ignored mobility work completely), bone and ligament issues are very unlikely.

I'd still say 15lbs over a couple of months is quite a lot. Even minor stability dysbalances can increase injury risk. For long term development I'd rather have my players gain strenght a bit more slowly or at least avoid exposing them to the highest level of competition while bulking up to minimize any risks.

 

Quote

And when it comes to actual strength, neural-muscular connections are more important. That's what comes with age.

Intramuscular coordination improves first, hypertrophy comes later.

 

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And no, I'm not saying that professional athletes aren't on PEDs. I'd never believe that in a million years. You just don't see issues as much unless they're putting on absurd amounts of muscle, recklessly. Think someone like Jim Wendler, who in his prime in the powerlifting circuit was carrying far more muscle than his body was equipped to really handle.

People don't hear about long term consequences because it usually happens after players' careers.

[BananaMash]

8 minutes ago, joe-max said:

I'd still say 15lbs over a couple of months is quite a lot. Even minor stability dysbalances can increase injury risk. For long term development I'd rather have my players gain strenght a bit more slowly or at least avoid exposing them to the highest level of competition while bulking up to minimize any risks.

 

Intramuscular coordination improves first, hypertrophy comes later.

 

People don't hear about long term consequences because it usually happens after players' careers.

1) I'll agree with you that 15lbs over the span of a few months is a lot, but both of us know it's safe to assume that's not 15lbs of pure muscle. Most of the professional hockey players who bulk up huge over a summer add a hell of a lot of body fat too. 

 

I also agree with you, it should be a slower process. For some reason though, teams don't allow that sort of time.

 

2) This is true to an extent. You see rapid gain in intramuscular coordination in people new to fitness. After that, it levels out and becomes more of a long-term process. Which is why that sort of "strength gap" exists between people of similar muscle mass but different ages. 

 

3) This is absolutely true, but I'm talking about immediate issues like tendon failure during the season. You'll get absolutely no argument from me in regard to potential long term negative health effects from regular PED use.

 

4) Unrelated, but I really wish we were watching Petterson in this Vegas game.

Edited September 17, 2017 by BananaMash

[joe-max]

19 hours ago, BananaMash said:

1) I'll agree with you that 15lbs over the span of a few months is a lot, but both of us know it's safe to assume that's not 15lbs of pure muscle. Most of the professional hockey players who bulk up huge over a summer add a hell of a lot of body fat too. 

 

I also agree with you, it should be a slower process. For some reason though, teams don't allow that sort of time.

 

2) This is true to an extent. You see rapid gain in intramuscular coordination in people new to fitness. After that, it levels out and becomes more of a long-term process. Which is why that sort of "strength gap" exists between people of similar muscle mass but different ages. 

 

3) This is absolutely true, but I'm talking about immediate issues like tendon failure during the season. You'll get absolutely no argument from me in regard to potential long term negative health effects from regular PED use.

 

4) Unrelated, but I really wish we were watching Petterson in this Vegas game.

So basically we're on the same page. Thanks for the input.

 

I just do hope that Petterson avoids Huttoning it up just to lose his agility and elusiveness.

 

And I won't watch any game tonight, because where I live it is exactly 6 hours before I have to get up for work. Good night.

Edited September 18, 2017 by joe-max

[BananaMash]

Just now, joe-max said:

So basically we're on the same page. Thanks for the input.

 

I just do hope that Petterson avoids Huttoning it up just to lose his agility and elusiveness.

 

And I won't watch any game tonight, because where I live it is exactly 6 hours before I gave to get up for work. Good night.

We are. Thanks for the discussion. Have a good one

[VegasCanuck]

Everyone making a big deal on this kids strength. Personally, I don't think he really needs that much more weight, I could see him being around the same type of playing weight as Gretzky was, 180 - 185 range.

 

He doesn't have to be massive to be effective, put him with a really big power forward and should be good in another year!

[73 Percent]

12 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

Everyone making a big deal on this kids strength. Personally, I don't think he really needs that much more weight, I could see him being around the same type of playing weight as Gretzky was, 180 - 185 range.

 

He doesn't have to be massive to be effective, put him with a really big power forward and should be good in another year!

He's 165... That's 20 lbs. That's alot of weight to add lol.

[VegasCanuck]

19 minutes ago, 73 Percent said:

He's 165... That's 20 lbs. That's alot of weight to add lol.

For someone 6' 2", that's not that much, that's maturing physically, which is generally a natural process.

[73 Percent]

6 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

For someone 6' 2", that's not that much, that's maturing physically, which is generally a natural process.

Biology aside. He has to add alot of weight to get to 185. No matter how he adds it, strength training, eating cheetos or maturing be needs to add alot of weight to even get to your 185 standards. That is fact. 

Edited September 18, 2017 by 73 Percent

[aGENT]

4 minutes ago, 73 Percent said:

Biology aside. He has to add alot of weight to get to 185. No matter how he adds it, strength training, eating cheetos or maturing be needs to add alot of weight to even get to your 185 standards. That is fact. 

I'm ok with him playing anywhere from 175-185.

 

10-20 lbs over the next 2 years should be pretty attainable I'd think. Also, by most indications, he's got pretty decent core strength already for a skinny, 18 year old kid. 

[73 Percent]

2 minutes ago, J.R. said:

I'm ok with him playing anywhere from 175-185.

 

10-20 lbs over the next 2 years should be pretty attainable I'd think. Also, by most indications, he's got pretty decent core strength already for a skinny, 18 year old kid. 

Definitly doable. Like Vegas said it might not even be hard to do seeing that he's 6'2". 

 

Still as of now. He needs to add alot of weight before he cracks the nhl.

[aGENT]

2 minutes ago, 73 Percent said:

Definitly doable. Like Vegas said it might not even be hard to do seeing that he's 6'2". 

 

Still as of now. He needs to add alot of weight before he cracks the nhl.

Godd thing most of us aren't expecting that for likely 2+ years

 

This year in Europe, next year in Utica and then he can push for a spot the year following.

 

Man, next year Utica could likely have Petterson/Gaudette as their 1/2C's...that should be fun!

Edited September 18, 2017 by J.R.

[Odd.]

5 minutes ago, J.R. said:

I'm ok with him playing anywhere from 175-185.

 

10-20 lbs over the next 2 years should be pretty attainable I'd think. Also, by most indications, he's got pretty decent core strength already for a skinny, 18 year old kid. 

Him doing well at the combine supports this statement.

[VegasCanuck]

43 minutes ago, 73 Percent said:

Biology aside. He has to add alot of weight to get to 185. No matter how he adds it, strength training, eating cheetos or maturing be needs to add alot of weight to even get to your 185 standards. That is fact. 

With the programs that they put these kids on these days, proper nutrition etc, 20 lbs is a year of increase, extremely doable.

[73 Percent]

36 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

With the programs that they put these kids on these days, proper nutrition etc, 20 lbs is a year of increase, extremely doable.

Oh very doable. 

[Rollieo Del Fuego]

For me I don't care if scores goals like a 200 Lb.'r or a 175 Lb.'r (his likely minimum playing weight)....they both count as a goal scored...how big do think Wong is and he got 4 points/3 goals and looked liked like he belonged in the NHL as much as anyone on the ice.

 

Elias just needs a normal year of growth for an 18 year old who is also 6'2"+ to start with and a bit more giddy-up in his first 3 steps...

I think he makes the team next year even if he has to start in Utica.

[Gaudette Celly]

20 minutes ago, Rollieo Del Fuego said:

Elias just needs a normal year of growth for an 18 year old who is also 6'2"+ to start with and a bit more giddy-up in his first 3 steps...

I think he makes the team next year even if he has to start in Utica.

Skill-wise, Benning has already said he's NHL-ready.  His older brother is built like him, and like the Sedins is highly unlikely to ever have significant size.  It's just a matter of the rest of his body and coordination catching up with his growth spurt and adding some strength.

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see him make the team next year either, although Gaudette is likely going to come in looking pretty good, too.  Might even come down to whether Henrik re-signs for another season.

[Putgolzin]

17 hours ago, 73 Percent said:

That's 20 lbs. That's a lot of weight to add lol.

Depends who you are...for some guys that's just like walking past 4 hot dog stands

[Rollieo Del Fuego]

19 hours ago, Hutton Wink said:

Skill-wise, Benning has already said he's NHL-ready.  His older brother is built like him, and like the Sedins is highly unlikely to ever have significant size.  It's just a matter of the rest of his body and coordination catching up with his growth spurt and adding some strength.

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see him make the team next year either, although Gaudette is likely going to come in looking pretty good, too.  Might even come down to whether Henrik re-signs for another season.

Which will come down to how they are deployed by the coach and chemistry with a new winger....another year like last year and I think they retire.

It seems Pettersson will be able to play wing if needed as well and Gaudette looks good driving the net from the right side as well...they might both make it next year.

[Alflives]

Maybe Pettersson doesn't need to get too much heavier?  There are some great players in the league now, who are lighter: Kane, Goudreau.

[messier's_elbow]

23 hours ago, 73 Percent said:

He's 165... That's 20 lbs. That's alot of weight to add lol.

When we drafted him I was worried but when I was 18 I weighed 170 pounds... now I'm 210 of mostly muscle and I don't have the best trainers in the world on my ass making sure my diets good. He will be fine but I think he's gonna be a few more years till he's an impact guy in the bigs.