ForsbergTheGreat Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 2 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said: Three reasons: He wasn't ranked ahead of Juolevi at the time of the draft Oilers had said they would have taken Sergachev at 4 had pool party not dropped. But you also have to consider why he wasn't ranked as high. It wasn't that people didn't think he wasn't as good, it was that he had a high bust potential, he's proving those doubts aren't a factor. 2 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said: No one has a crystal ball and revisionist drafting is pretty easy to do People did have opinions on these players prior to the draft. 2 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said: Comparing two players this early out of the gate in their careers is the same logic that was used by those writing off Virtanen and many before him throughout the NHL That's the problem I see. Just because people think player B is better doesn't mean player A is a bust. Admitting Nylander and Ehlers are better than Jake doesn't mean people also thought Jake would never amount to the NHL career. Again, I posted this in another thread, but player rankings aren't simply based on the best players or top ceilings. It's a combination of potential, based on risk/reward. If someone told GM's that Ehlers wasn't just a bi product of his line mate and that even though he was small he would be able to handle the NHL and excel, do you think Ehlers drops to #9? Not a chance. Players drop because of the risks they have. Everyone knew that if Ehlers beat those risks he would be an elite hockey player, but those risks were just to high to take a chance on when there were other players with less risks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamJamIam Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Cam Barker produced more points than Keith for over a season early in his career. You tell me how much 10 games means? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 6 minutes ago, SamJamIam said: Cam Barker produced more points than Keith for over a season early in his career. You tell me how much 10 games means? I get the point you're making but no barker didn't. Both started their NHL careers in 05-06 2006 B=0 K=21 2007 B=8 K=31 2008 B=18 K=32 2009 B=40 K=44 2010 B=21 K=69 2011 B=5 K=45 2012 B=2 K=40 2013 B=2 K=27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MPHSlapShot Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Troll thread is troll thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Only 5 D have actually seen any NHL ice time from that draft so far. Sergachev has been in 14 games and you're asking if you prefer him? What about McAvoy? Mete? Chycrun leads the pack with 68 NHL games, why not him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brobidus Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 I remember at the end of the OHL playoffs last year, Olli was absolutely demolishing Sergachev in both offensive and defensive play. Sergachev is a great prospect and I had him over Juolevi personally, but it's much too early to project anything. Just look at who Serg is playing with, the opportunities he is getting. He is playing on confidence right now and despite putting up points he has not been solid in the D zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd. Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Many other teams passed on Sergachev until he fell to 9th. Whatever, hey, at least we're not like Montreal and trade away an elite defenseman! Their loss, not ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ichiban604 Posted October 25, 2017 Author Share Posted October 25, 2017 59 minutes ago, Crabcakes said: Has Virtanen arrived? I hope he doesn't think that. He looks like he's getting it but players know they have to bring it every day for their entire career. Don’t argue with him. His the ultimate Virtanen lover. He will have a heart attack if you think don’t agree with him. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ichiban604 Posted October 25, 2017 Author Share Posted October 25, 2017 3 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said: Three reasons: He wasn't ranked ahead of Juolevi at the time of the draft No one has a crystal ball and revisionist drafting is pretty easy to do Comparing two players this early out of the gate in their careers is the same logic that was used by those writing off Virtanen and many before him throughout the NHL Canucks, and 7 other teams, did not draft MS - so what? Until your team's player actually has the benefit of his own development path completed this is nothing more than a veiled way of slamming your own team and the player they chose. Guess some of you need something to do now that Virtanen has emerged. Lol do you like to bring Virtanen name up everywhere? You must have a Virtanen fan club. Guess some of you need to bring up Virtanen name up again to feel secure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 40 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: Only 5 D have actually seen any NHL ice time from that draft so far. Sergachev has been in 14 games and you're asking if you prefer him? What about McAvoy? Mete? Chycrun leads the pack with 68 NHL games, why not him? Because the census out of the draft was that Sergachev had the highest potential but he also had high risks. It’s not about games played at a young age, it’s about a player debunking the doubts people had on him. He’s showing that the doubts some scouts had, that made him drop to 9th overall are no longer a factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 1 minute ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Because the census out of the draft was that Sergachev had the highest potential but he also had high risks. It’s not about games played at a young age, it’s about a player debunking the doubts people had on him. He’s showing that the doubts some scouts had, that made him drop to 9th overall are no longer a factor. Fair enough. I haven't watched him play this year so I don't know if his defensive abilities are as good as the others though, production so far sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 27 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: Fair enough. I haven't watched him play this year so I don't know if his defensive abilities are as good as the others though, production so far sure. He's definitely being sheltered, he's still pretty raw. Most people knew that if Sergachev could put everything together, he'd could become an elite star in this league, he has all the tools to do so, but he also had a lot of risk and could end up a bust. Being in Tampa has really made his transition easier, he's got his Russian team mates to bond with (when he got drafted by MTL, he was most excited to play with Markov, who MTL didn't resign) and Tampa plays a more high pace, offense style that suits his game. Based on his play, I'm more confident today to say that he's closer to being a top D than he is to being the bust, and that's what makes him exciting. It's not that Juolevi has been developing slower and therefor a bad pick, it's that Sergachev is showing clear signs of becoming that star D, something we knew was possible with him, but just weren't comfortable taking that risk on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 13 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: He's definitely being sheltered, he's still pretty raw. Most people knew that if Sergachev could put everything together, he'd could become an elite star in this league, he has all the tools to do so, but he also had a lot of risk and could end up a bust. Being in Tampa has really made his transition easier, he's got his Russian team mates to bond with (when he got drafted by MTL, he was most excited to play with Markov, who MTL didn't resign) and Tampa plays a more high pace, offense style that suits his game. Based on his play, I'm more confident today to say that he's closer to being a top D than he is to being the bust, and that's what makes him exciting. It's not that Juolevi has been developing slower and therefor a bad pick, it's that Sergachev is showing clear signs of becoming that star D, something we knew was possible with him, but just weren't comfortable taking that risk on. When you just talk about his own development in that way and it makes sense. Its the comparison piece thats off... no one has a large enough resume to have any kind of meaningful discussion. In terms of JB's pick decision, it did and still does make sense. We're desperate for solid D. Sure Jim could have rolled the dice on Sergachev but like you say the risk-reward calc wasn't right, so Tampa ends up being the ones that benefit. No one saw that move coming either. Sergachev could easily be struggling right now with Montreal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Kailer Yamamoto, best forward 2017 draft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Zepp Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 1 hour ago, Ichiban604 said: Lol do you like to bring Virtanen name up everywhere? You must have a Virtanen fan club. Guess some of you need to bring up Virtanen name up again to feel secure. Yup, that's it. I am very insecure if I cannot mention Jake Virtanen. You soooo nailed it. Hate on Ichiban, hate on!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamJamIam Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 2 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: I get the point you're making but no barker didn't. Both started their NHL careers in 05-06 2006 B=0 K=21 2007 B=8 K=31 2008 B=18 K=32 2009 B=40 K=44 2010 B=21 K=69 2011 B=5 K=45 2012 B=2 K=40 2013 B=2 K=27 Misremembered. Should had said points per game. Keith was playing a full season while Cam never did. Keith was also getting way more ice time. But you get the point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 In a few years, nobody will care... Dahlin Gud Juolevi Stecher Hutton Chatfield McEneny Brisbois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ichiban604 Posted October 25, 2017 Author Share Posted October 25, 2017 21 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said: Yup, that's it. I am very insecure if I cannot mention Jake Virtanen. You soooo nailed it. Hate on Ichiban, hate on!!!! Please calm yourself, don’t get overall excited and have a heart attack. ❤️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Still way too early to pick a best dman from the 2016 draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Sergachev is thick headed, and not any good. Juiolevi is still developing, and will be WAY BETTER!!! That's my completely non-biased opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.