Duterte Schools Trudeau on His War on Drugs

[Scottish⑦Canuck]

8 minutes ago, HerrDrFunk said:

Oh, damn. You're just nuts and think we should be killing people carte blanche here. Okay, cool. I get it now. Good day to you.

janisahockeynut? 

 

Perhaps there is a certain degree of leniency towards narcotics, but Duterte is a self confessed murderer and a psychopath at that. No country should be taking any lessons  or inspiration from him. That aside, at what point do you decide if someone is a supplier or dealer without a fair trial? Before or after you pop a bullet in their head?

[J.I.A.H.N]

9 minutes ago, HerrDrFunk said:

Oh, damn. You're just nuts. Okay, cool. I get it now. Good day to you.

Seriously..........I am not advocating shooting any one anywhere

 

I am merely, suggesting that other places in the world have different views and in some case, actions

 

Take in point that in India, some marriage is prearranged

In Europe, most beaches are clothing optional

In some parts of Africa, children are given adult chores, much earlier in life

In Turkey a thief will have his hand cut off

 

My point is, unless it endangers us directly, we have enough of our own problems

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

1 minute ago, janisahockeynut said:

I hope Alf didn't mean shoot the druggies.......I think he over simplified..........I think he meant shoot the suppliers

 

I don't think there is anyone that doesn't support social programs...................but if there was less drugs, there would be less addicts, therefore less overdoses.....

I know for certain that the extra judicial killings by vigilante groups in the Philippines targeted street level users as well as street dealers.  In some cases the extra judicial killings were sponsored by Duterte.  Some of the vigilantes were specifically targeting "druggies".  If they were only targeting drug producers there wouldn't have been the same level of global uproar.  

 

We will definitely agree on how to deal with drug producers and suppliers, but I think we will have a difference on opinion on how to treat drug addicts.  In my opinion it is most often a health care/mental health issue and not a crime issue.

 

I say this with all due respect, but I totally disagree that there would be less addicts and overdoses if there were less drugs. It's like saying there will be no drug crime if drugs are legalized.  Criminals are and criminal organizations are not going to all get jobs at Subway if their revenue streams are diminished.  They will find new and inventive ways to get their products to the people, as well as finding new and inventive products to offer people eg. Fentanyl.  The war doesn't work, it has never worked and it will never work.  Some addicts are lost causes, I admit that, but the cost to society could be greatly reduces if there was better ways to deal with mental health and addiction instead of enforcement initiatives and incarceration....and extra judicial killings obviously.

 

We all get an opinion though, so I'm not saying you are wrong, only that I totally disagree

[J.I.A.H.N]

3 minutes ago, Scottish⑦Canuck said:

janisahockeynut? 

 

Perhaps there is a certain degree of leniency towards narcotics, but Duterte is a self confessed murderer and a psychopath at that. No country should be taking any lessons  or inspiration from him. That aside, at what point do you decide if someone is a supplier or dealer without a fair trial? Before or after you pop a bullet in their head?

I addressed HerrDrFunk directly above

 

But, I guess, I have seen enough death, and junkies, and stressed out police and Drs. and nurses to fell pretty....angry about it

 

I had a friend, whos little brother died of Meth..........the trouble was he was in programs, family interventions, etc, but somehow the drugs kept finding him...the saddest part is they caught the dealer, who plead out, and served 6 months (3 actually), and the family had chased the guy away, more than once

 

If that happened to your friend, how would you feel?

 

I am still angry about it! The family has never been the same, and the mother has talked about killing herself, on more than one occasion.........

 

That is a lot of fallout!

[bishopshodan]

Legalise all drugs.

 

Put the ridiculous amount of profits into healthcare and education. 

 

A more informed and intelligent society will make better choices.

 

 

[HerrDrFunk]

6 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

Seriously..........I am not advocating shooting any one anywhere

 

I am merely, suggesting that other places in the world have different views and in some case, actions

 

Take in point that in India, some marriage is prearranged

In Europe, most beaches are clothing optional

In some parts of Africa, children are given adult chores, much earlier in life

In Turkey a thief will have his hand cut off

 

My point is, unless it endangers us directly, we have enough of our own problems

Hey guys, mass murders are cool because of clothing optional beaches!

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

8 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

Seriously..........I am not advocating shooting any one anywhere

 

I am merely, suggesting that other places in the world have different views and in some case, actions

 

Take in point that in India, some marriage is prearranged

In Europe, most beaches are clothing optional

In some parts of Africa, children are given adult chores, much earlier in life

In Turkey a thief will have his hand cut off

 

My point is, unless it endangers us directly, we have enough of our own problems

In the spirit of common ground, this is valid.  We can promote human rights though, so I don't mind when our leaders use opportunities like this to stand on the soap box so to speak.  We are quickly becoming a global village, human rights need to be uniform.

[Alflives]

1 hour ago, HerrDrFunk said:

We also treat people who get hurt while participating in extreme sports and the guy who wasn't wearing safety goggles while woodworking and ended up taking out an eye. I would hope we treat addicts who come into the emergency room.

Maybe we should have a rule about “lifestyle bandits” getting treatment after those who actually make healthy choices?  There will come a time, in the not too distant future, when medical expenses are so high we will, as a society, make tough choices about who gets priority.  This is not politically correct, but it’s true.  

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

4 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

Legalise all drugs.

 

Put the ridiculous amount of profits into healthcare and education. 

 

A more informed and intelligent society will make better choices.

 

 

Legalize all drugs.  But what next?  It's such a short sighted comment.  For this to work there would need to be a venue for distribution, who does it?  Who makes the drugs?  Are we just allowing the current producers and gangs to continue the distribution?  That statement raises way more questions that answers.  It will take a lot more than legalization to solve this global crisis. 

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

3 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Maybe we should have a rule about “lifestyle bandits” getting treatment after those who actually make healthy choices?  There will come a time, in the not too distant future, when medical expenses are so high we will, as a society, make tough choices about who gets priority.  This is not politically correct, but it’s true.  

I bet you a donut you are wrong.  The only change in Canada healthcare will be the addition of a pay for use tier.  Not even one of them Tim Hortons donuts, a good one like Harmony or Cartems.

[HerrDrFunk]

3 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Maybe we should have a rule about “lifestyle bandits” getting treatment after those who actually make healthy choices?  There will come a time, in the not too distant future, when medical expenses are so high we will, as a society, make tough choices about who gets priority.  This is not politically correct, but it’s true.  

Please cite your sources.

 

So, where do healthy lifestyle choices begin and end? Does they guy who fractures his skull playing hockey have to wait? I mean, hockey is a dangerous game but it is extremely good exercise.....

[J.I.A.H.N]

These are big questions with many answers.......

 

It reminds of questions like 

 

Who is a terrorist.........in the Palestine/Israeli war?

 

What came first the chicken or the egg? (silly, I know!)

 

But......it is such a deep question and really depends on which side of the fence your on.........so many facets

[coastal.view]

7 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Maybe we should have a rule about “lifestyle bandits” getting treatment after those who actually make healthy choices?  There will come a time, in the not too distant future, when medical expenses are so high we will, as a society, make tough choices about who gets priority.  This is not politically correct, but it’s true.  

good luck with that alf

are you going to be the moral arbitrator about bandits and healthy?

how much sugar do you eat in a day

do you eat food that has additives

do you always wear the proper clothing and foot wear for weather conditions when walking across the roads at night and you only ever crossed at crosswalks during your lifetime?

if someone is abused or neglected as a child and later turns to substances - that past should be ignored by an arbitrator ?

we all think we know the moral high ground

i think we all our badly flawed in our view of moral correctness

[HerrDrFunk]

13 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

I addressed HerrDrFunk directly above

 

But, I guess, I have seen enough death, and junkies, and stressed out police and Drs. and nurses to fell pretty....angry about it

 

I had a friend, whos little brother died of Meth..........the trouble was he was in programs, family interventions, etc, but somehow the drugs kept finding him...the saddest part is they caught the dealer, who plead out, and served 6 months (3 actually), and the family had chased the guy away, more than once

 

If that happened to your friend, how would you feel?

 

I am still angry about it! The family has never been the same, and the mother has talked about killing herself, on more than one occasion.........

 

That is a lot of fallout!

That's terrible and I'm sorry to hear that....though I feel obligated to point out that under Duterte's government, your friend's brother would have been just as valid a target for execution as his dealer.

[Alflives]

Just now, Raymond Luxury Yacht said:

I bet you a donut you are wrong.  The only change in Canada healthcare will be the addition of a pay for use tier.  Not even one of them Tim Hortons donuts, a good one like Harmony or Cartems.

I like Crispy Cream:)

Health care coasts are taking up way too much of government spending.  Every year it goes up.  Who will pay for the costs of the future?  Tough choices will be made, and those who make poor choices (regardless of the reason) will not get coverage.  

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, coastal.view said:

good luck with that alf

are you going to be the moral arbitrator about bandits and healthy?

how much sugar do you eat in a day

do you eat food that has additives

do you always wear the proper clothing and foot wear for weather conditions when walking across the roads at night and you only ever crossed at crosswalks during your lifetime?

if someone is abused or neglected as a child and later turns to substances - that past should be ignored by an arbitrator ?

we all think we know the moral high ground

i think we all our badly flawed in our view of moral correctness

It’s already being done by the tax on alcohol and cigarettes.  Governments will tax the heck out of things.  Still there won’t be enough money for the medical system.  There will be those who just don’t get coverage.  

[HerrDrFunk]

16 minutes ago, Alflives said:

It’s already being done by the tax on alcohol and cigarettes.  Governments will tax the heck out of things.  Still there won’t be enough money for the medical system.  There will be those who just don’t get coverage.  

Did you hear that the tentative plan is to tax $1+GST per gram of legal pot? That's a whole lotta tax revenue right there.

 

Sorry, Alf. But what you're proposing is one of those nice and simple solutions that actually has major problems when you think about it. Again, the majority will agree that being addicted isn't a healthy lifestyle but where does it end? Do you not treat a car accident victim if they weren't wearing a seatbelt?

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, HerrDrFunk said:

Did you hear that the tentative plan is to tax $1+GST per gram of legal pot? That's a whole lotta tax revenue right there.

 

Sorry, Alf. But what you're proposing is one of those nice and simple solutions that actually has major problems when you think about it. Again, the majority will agree that being addicted isn't a healthy lifestyle but where does it end? Do you not treat a care accident victim if they weren't wearing a seatbelt?

The money will not be enough, even with new revenue from further “sin” taxes.  Eventually, yes, those who make the poorest of choices will be left by the curb.  In some Provinces it’s a 5 year waiting list to get a family doctor.  Those regions are already experiencing the crunch.   A provincial government will be elected in Canada that runs promising an alternative health care plan, where lifestyle choices affect the medical coverage.  Insurance costs go up for those who make risky choices, or they sometimes they don’t even qualify for coverage.  

[Scottish⑦Canuck]

29 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

I addressed HerrDrFunk directly above

 

But, I guess, I have seen enough death, and junkies, and stressed out police and Drs. and nurses to fell pretty....angry about it

 

I had a friend, whos little brother died of Meth..........the trouble was he was in programs, family interventions, etc, but somehow the drugs kept finding him...the saddest part is they caught the dealer, who plead out, and served 6 months (3 actually), and the family had chased the guy away, more than once

 

If that happened to your friend, how would you feel?

 

I am still angry about it! The family has never been the same, and the mother has talked about killing herself, on more than one occasion.........

 

That is a lot of fallout!

I can sympathise with you having seen the consequences of drug abuse in my own social circle and I agree that in a lot of cases too much leniency is shown to those supplying the drugs. I just don't think the radical methods Duterte is using to combat it is appropriate or transferable to anywhere else. He's not just targeting the dealers or suppliers, but addicts themselves as well. And as anyone who's experienced or witnessed addiction can tell you, whether it be on drugs or alcohol, often it's not a terribly difficult habit to slip into. I think that's particularly sad and disturbing.

 

bishopshodan actually raises an interesting point with regards to legalising drugs and taking the money out of the dealer / suppliers hands. I'm far from an expert on the subject, but Switzerland attempted something like it a few years ago and I believe it's been a success.

 

https://www.pri.org/stories/2016-02-12/us-can-learn-lot-zurich-about-how-fight-its-heroin-crisis

 

[D.B Cooper]

26 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I like Crispy Cream:)

Health care coasts are taking up way too much of government spending.  Every year it goes up.  Who will pay for the costs of the future?  Tough choices will be made, and those who make poor choices (regardless of the reason) will not get coverage.  

So you and your crispy cream donuts won't be getting covered then?

That is a pretty big dose of body poison right there.