[Speculation] Chris Tanev's future as a Canuck, and Adam Gaudette

[ilduce39]

8 hours ago, canuckleface77 said:

THIS IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE.

 

You will never have a higher value on Tanev then RIGHT NOW.  Good defenceman? Yes. He is about as highly ranked a D with very limited offensive side and very injury prone that you will get.  

 

He is not replaceable.  Other mentors will come forward for our young guys.  When stocks are high, you sell for assets.  ESPECIALLY when those assets will compliment this team in 3 years time when they are NEEDED.

 

Mentorship is over-rated.  And Tanev will not be on this team when/if they make a run for the cup. He just won't.  But the guys you acquire for him NOW most likely will be.  This team has a solid 3 to 5 year window before we seriously compete.  

 

You get a 1st and a prospect for him now?  NO FRICKIN' BRAINER.

Everyone has a price but I’m not sure Tanev returns what he means to this team.

 

First, you’re assuming a huge return for a guy who isn’t physical, doesn’t score and is currently hurt. 

 

Second, it isn’t about “mentorship” it’s that Tanev helps whoever (Juolevi, next year?)he’s paired with and shelters anyone who plays under him in the lineup. Finally, his transition game helps the forwards (including the young ones) who need the puck to be effective.  

 

Who takes 1RD shifts in his absence, Stecher or Guddy?  Either gets buried in that situation without an elite LHD to compensate - another thing we don’t have. 

 

When you consider next year or two will see a good portion of our prospect pool transitioning to the NHL it can’t be all, “BBBLLLUUURRR DA HURRRR trade trade trade!!!!”

[Isam]

2 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

Everyone has a price but I’m not sure Tanev returns what he means to this team.

 

First, you’re assuming a huge return for a guy who isn’t physical, doesn’t score and is currently hurt. 

 

Second, it isn’t about “mentorship” it’s that Tanev helps whoever (Juolevi, next year?)he’s paired with and shelters anyone who plays under him in the lineup. Finally, his transition game helps the forwards (including the young ones) who need the puck to be effective.  

 

Who takes 1RD shifts in his absence, Stecher or Guddy?  Either gets buried in that situation without an elite LHD to compensate - another thing we don’t have. 

 

When you consider next year or two will see a good portion of our prospect pool transitioning to the NHL it can’t be all, “BBBLLLUUURRR DA HURRRR trade trade trade!!!!”

Trade, raymond, vey, and roy for nurse and edm's 2018 first unprotected. Trade, trade, trade.

[ilduce39]

20 hours ago, Provost said:

Tanev is getting older and getting worse as injuries pile up.  You pretend he is the only veteran D on the planet.

 

The mix isn’t working and isn't sheltering anyone.  Three years of being at the bottom of the standings isn’t a fluke, and returning any facsimile of this roster next season isn’t gong to magically become a playoff team.

 

The way the league is going with young players, there are now plenty of veterans available after the free agent frenzy who are left without a dance partner.  They can be had for cheap and low term contracts.  They are the perfect fit for us right now because they give us insurance but not so much commitment that they stand in the way of any kids who come into camp and deserve a roster spot.

 

We should be moving a bunch of our roster, as many of Hutton, Tanev, Baertschi, Granlund, Gaunce, Del Zotto, Gudbranson, Vanek, etc.  as we can find a decent market for.

I’ve asked this before, but can you draw any real examples about how Tanev’s injuries are cumulative / related / lingering? Like, say, Edler’s back? 

 

I hate the “we’re bad so flush the team” argument. We have top flight prospects *finally* ready to join Bo/Boeser in Gaudette/Lind/Pettersson/Dahlen/Demko/Juolevi.  That’s a HUGE free upgrade.  We need to support those players - not usher them in to a wasteland.  

 

I’d rather they have some talent to play with / alongside them then a few extra draft picks.  Some guys need to be sold but not this stupid fire sale business.

 

Don’t pull the “it’s easy to find FA’s” junk either.  They’re expensive and usually on the down-swing. The reason you want to trade Tanev (and why he holds value) is because he will never reach free agency - we’ll re-sign him or trade him.  You aren’t getting him as an FA (and if you are you’re paying a premium to out bid the rest of the league.) 

[riffraff]

Lip Pouch all over the tanev speculation during the 2nd intermission leafs pens. 

[Provost]

5 hours ago, ilduce39 said:

I’ve asked this before, but can you draw any real examples about how Tanev’s injuries are cumulative / related / lingering? Like, say, Edler’s back? 

 

I hate the “we’re bad so flush the team” argument. We have top flight prospects *finally* ready to join Bo/Boeser in Gaudette/Lind/Pettersson/Dahlen/Demko/Juolevi.  That’s a HUGE free upgrade.  We need to support those players - not usher them in to a wasteland.  

 

I’d rather they have some talent to play with / alongside them then a few extra draft picks.  Some guys need to be sold but not this stupid fire sale business.

 

Don’t pull the “it’s easy to find FA’s” junk either.  They’re expensive and usually on the down-swing. The reason you want to trade Tanev (and why he holds value) is because he will never reach free agency - we’ll re-sign him or trade him.  You aren’t getting him as an FA (and if you are you’re paying a premium to out bid the rest of the league.) 

You are just wrong.

 

Nowadays in the league there are many older veterans looking for work.  It happens every season and we are an attractive option for them as they have a better chance of ice time and roster spots than better teams.  Veterans are out of fashion as everyone wants to get younger now.   They are not expensive and it doesn’t matter that they are on the downswing.  They are placeholders in short term contract.

 

Our up and coming prospects are much better served by learning alongside long time professionals like Vanek, Vrbata, Sbisa types rather than our middling players who are tying to figure things out still themselves and being scratched for lack of effort.  It is the opposite of “wasteland” like you are saying.  Wasteland is keeping the same losing roster that isn’t going to be materially better next year.

 

 

 

[R.Dahlin26]

Good news.

 

Eliotte friedman just said Canucks are letting teams know that if they want Tanev, it would take a special offer.

 

So they aren't closing a door on a Tanev trade.

 

TDL day just got that much more interesting.

[70seven]

3 minutes ago, R.Dahlin26 said:

Good news.

 

Eliotte friedman just said Canucks are letting teams know that if they want Tanev, it would take a special offer.

 

So they aren't closing a door on a Tanev trade.

 

TDL day just got that much more interesting.

I don’t believe Tanev is going anywhere.  I’m hoping someone steps up to the plate, but I do think the ask will be too high for a guy who’s unhealthy as often as he is. 

 

I would take a 1st and a prospect without question. 

[canuckleface77]

5 hours ago, ilduce39 said:

Everyone has a price but I’m not sure Tanev returns what he means to this team.

 

First, you’re assuming a huge return for a guy who isn’t physical, doesn’t score and is currently hurt. 

 

Second, it isn’t about “mentorship” it’s that Tanev helps whoever (Juolevi, next year?)he’s paired with and shelters anyone who plays under him in the lineup. Finally, his transition game helps the forwards (including the young ones) who need the puck to be effective.  

 

Who takes 1RD shifts in his absence, Stecher or Guddy?  Either gets buried in that situation without an elite LHD to compensate - another thing we don’t have. 

 

When you consider next year or two will see a good portion of our prospect pool transitioning to the NHL it can’t be all, “BBBLLLUUURRR DA HURRRR trade trade trade!!!!”

If you're telling me Tanev's mentorship over the next few years is more valuable then a 1st round pick then I'll respectfully disagree.  Your points are valid, but even still, so what if what you say happens?  We finish worse? This mentorship and "losing mentality" thing gets WAY to much play.  

[Canuck Drogo]

6 minutes ago, R.Dahlin26 said:

Good news.

 

Eliotte friedman just said Canucks are letting teams know that if they want Tanev, it would take a special offer.

 

So they aren't closing a door on a Tanev trade.

 

TDL day just got that much more interesting.

Yeah I just caught that too! Very encouraging! 

 

I really like Tanev but his time to win is now, and our time to load up on assets is now. By the time we’re ready to properly compete again, the hard miles that he’s logging while have undoubtedly taken too hefty of a toll. 

 

The right move for both parties is for him to go to a contender and for us to move forward with whatever young, undamaged porsepects and/or picks we get for him. 

[Chris12345]

30 minutes ago, riffraff said:

Lip Pouch all over the tanev speculation during the 2nd intermission leafs pens. 

Lip Pouch....love it.

[Chris12345]

22 minutes ago, 70seven said:

I don’t believe Tanev is going anywhere.  I’m hoping someone steps up to the plate, but I do think the ask will be too high for a guy who’s unhealthy as often as he is. 

 

I would take a 1st and a prospect without question. 

A first and Timothy I can't spell his last name Lilegren gets er done for me.

[the_impersonator13]

27 minutes ago, Chris12345 said:

Lip Pouch....love it.

That chin to neck transition is outstanding. 

[Canuck Drogo]

1 hour ago, Chris12345 said:

A first and Timothy I can't spell his last name Lilegren gets er done for me.

Honestly, I would take a second and him. And I can’t see Toronto conceding their last year’s first as well as this year’s. 

 

PS did you notice that I didn’t try to spell his name as well lol

[JustABandwagoner]

1 hour ago, Chris12345 said:

A first and Timothy I can't spell his last name Lilegren gets er done for me.

Deal

[Provost]

So far from what we have seen of Benning is that he is a safe “incrementalist”.  He tries to make small moves to slightly upgrade the team while not opening himself up for a lot of risk.

 

Moving Tanev would be out of character, so it would have to be a pretty incredible offer.

 

Unfortunately the club is at a

point where we have to try for home runs instead of singles or bunts.

[ilduce39]

3 hours ago, Provost said:

You are just wrong.

 

Nowadays in the league there are many older veterans looking for work.  It happens every season and we are an attractive option for them as they have a better chance of ice time and roster spots than better teams.  Veterans are out of fashion as everyone wants to get younger now.   They are not expensive and it doesn’t matter that they are on the downswing.  They are placeholders in short term contract.

 

Our up and coming prospects are much better served by learning alongside long time professionals like Vanek, Vrbata, Sbisa types rather than our middling players who are tying to figure things out still themselves and being scratched for lack of effort.  It is the opposite of “wasteland” like you are saying.  Wasteland is keeping the same losing roster that isn’t going to be materially better next year.

 

 

 

I'd need some examples before I change my tune on this one so I looked it up as that's just a bunch of cliches. 

 

http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/article/the-top-30-unrestricted-free-agents-of-2018

 

John Carlson, Mike Green, Calvin De Haan, Guddy, Ian Cole, Jack Johnson, Jan Rutta, Nick Holden, Luca Sbisa, Dan Hamhuis, Johnny Oduya are potential UFA defensemen.  I've bolded the RH shots.  Carlson will most likely be re-upped by Washington, Mike Green made 6 million last year but still puts up points, we know what Guddy brings and Jan Rutta is in his first year in the NHL - not doing bad though.  That's not a super deep list.

 

Again, I'm not talking about "mentorship" I'm talking about guys who can legitimately play at a high level and aren't prohibitively expensive in both term and salary to sign.  So Juolevi has a decent partner to play with if he's getting prime minutes... or is sheltered by a Taney-anchored pairing if he's down the lineup.

 

Again, if the return is Foote and a 1st or 2nd from Tampa (unlikely) or Liljegren and a 1st or 2nd from Toronto I'd take it and run.. but selling Tanev for "picks" would have to result in a pretty darn good pick.  I also don't really think he garners that kind of return... so it's a moot point. 

 

Now, if we can sell Edler or Hutton and nab a De Haan in FA I'm all over it.

 

[ilduce39]

4 hours ago, canuckleface77 said:

If you're telling me Tanev's mentorship over the next few years is more valuable then a 1st round pick then I'll respectfully disagree.  Your points are valid, but even still, so what if what you say happens?  We finish worse? This mentorship and "losing mentality" thing gets WAY to much play.  

If it were Tampa's 1st (31 OA likely) or Toronto's (mid/late 20s) do you move Tanev straight up?  That's where I'm really not sure it's worth it.  If it's a mid 1st (10-20) I think long and hard.  For what it's worth, I'd pull the trigger pretty quick if Foote or Liljegren are on the table.  I just don't see prime teams giving up their blue-chip prospects who will give huge cap relief on their ELC's.

[Gaudette Celly]

4 hours ago, R.Dahlin26 said:

Eliotte friedman just said Canucks are letting teams know that if they want Tanev, it would take a special offer.

 

So they aren't closing a door on a Tanev trade.

No one is untouchable.  Nobody.

[Rush17]

A tad surprised by this: 

 

[canuckleface77]

8 hours ago, Canuck Drogo said:

Honestly, I would take a second and him. And I can’t see Toronto conceding their last year’s first as well as this year’s. 

 

PS did you notice that I didn’t try to spell his name as well lol

You never know...Tanev is exactly what the Leafs need and that franchise is all in for the Cup and loaded with youth.  You never know...Tanev, Hutton, 3rd for Marner & a 2nd or something...