[discussion] is this enough to get Karlsson?

[Hockey God]

14 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

So Ottawa is a tire fire. No one went for Karlsson this TDL.... so is there a window for us to try to get him before the end of the season?

 

Here's my suggestion, is it enough? A lot of 1st rounders have flown the coop already for 2018, so we may have an edge over other teams if we finally want a 1D. 

 

To VAN: EK, Bobby Ryan 50% salary retained.

 

To OTT: Guddy, Hutton, Goldy, protected 1st rounder (top 3 lotto protected, unprotected 2019 1st if we win a top 3 2018 spot). 

 

Caveat that we are also able to negotiate an EK extension.

 

 

 

What about for EK, Bobby Ryan 50% retained and Gaborik full cap hit?  Would a package of Virtanen, Palmu, Tanev, Goldy, and 2018 and 2019 2nd be enough?  Sedins would need to retire though, to free up money, and we'd need a D at the draft plus get Groot back to help fill the holes on D ....     

[-AJ-]

6 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

its an odd situation in Ottawa right now. I'm banking on there being a ton of pressure to move him and Ottawa biting on a decent offer and not wanting things to drag out. 

 

So I'll amend the original offer to this:

 

To VAN: EK, Bobby Ryan 50% salary retained.

 

To OTT: Juolevi, Goldy, protected 1st rounder (top 3 lotto protected, unprotected 2019 1st if we win a top 3 2018 spot), 2018 2nd, 2019 2nd

 

I think this might get it done, but there's a chance I'm underrating how much Ottawa values Karlsson.

 

EDIT: I realized you took both Guddy and Hutton out of your original proposal. I think you leave one of them in the deal to make it happen.

[coastal.view]

4 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

its an odd situation in Ottawa right now. I'm banking on there being a ton of pressure to move him and Ottawa biting on a decent offer and not wanting things to drag out. 

 

So I'll amend the original offer to this:

 

To VAN: EK, Bobby Ryan 50% salary retained.

 

To OTT: Juolevi, Goldy, protected 1st rounder (top 3 lotto protected, unprotected 2019 1st if we win a top 3 2018 spot), 2018 2nd, 2019 2nd

 

assuming melnyk will eat contract . . especially half the value of bobby ryan for the next few years

indicates you did not really analyze the panneuf trade closely enough

or miss melnyk's true motives

 

melynk is all about saving every dollar he can right now

at least while he remains owner

and is waiting for a new arena

[JM_]

1 minute ago, coastal.view said:

assuming melnyk will eat contract . . especially half the value of bobby ryan for the next few years

indicates you did not really analyze the panneuf trade closely enough

or miss melnyk's true motives

 

melynk is all about saving every dollar he can right now

at least while he remains owner

and is waiting for a new arena

thats what I'm banking on. No one is taking on Bobby Ryan full salary. 

 

Melnyk really managed things terribly this year, he may be interested in turning the page sooner than later.

 

 

 

[Xbox]

35 minutes ago, goalie13 said:

There's the problem.

 

If he doesn't want to re-sign in Ottawa, what makes Vancouver all that more attractive to him?

Uh his issue isn't with Ottawa, he loves Ottawa. The issue is with the Senators organization and Melnyk. Don't know what those issues have to do with Vancouver.

[JM_]

4 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

I think this might get it done, but there's a chance I'm underrating how much Ottawa values Karlsson.

 

EDIT: I realized you took both Guddy and Hutton out of your original proposal. I think you leave one of them in the deal to make it happen.

I think they'd want Guddy if thats the case. 

 

So, Guddy, Juolevi, 2018 lotto protected 1st, 2018 2nd, 2019 2nd for EK and 50% Ryan

 

We'd have to recover picks but you have to think Edler must be worth at least one of those 2nds back 

 

 

[Rick Blight]

59 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

its an odd situation in Ottawa right now. I'm banking on there being a ton of pressure to move him and Ottawa biting on a decent offer and not wanting things to drag out. 

 

So I'll amend the original offer to this:

 

To VAN: EK, Bobby Ryan 50% salary retained.

 

To OTT: Juolevi, Goldy, protected 1st rounder (top 3 lotto protected, unprotected 2019 1st if we win a top 3 2018 spot), 2018 2nd, 2019 2nd

 

Is this offer really that much more than what Tampa paid to get McDonagh?

Tampa Bay Lightning acquire	Date	New York Rangers acquire
Ryan McDonagh J.T. Miller	February 26, 2018	Vladislav Namestnikov Libor Hajek Brett Howden 2018 1st round pick 2019 conditional 2nd round pick
Comment: Conditional 2nd round pick becomes a first-rounder if the Lightning win the Stanley Cup in either 2018 or 2019.

[Rick Blight]

Nobody worried about his production decline this year being due to?:

 

Karlsson is still waiting for a new tendon, surgically inserted in June, to “settle into” his body. He can’t get his foot into a skate boot until his skin stops splitting open, which, evidently, keeps happening. Yes, for all the glamour of professional hockey, it can be fairly gruesome as well.

“They took half of my ankle bone out and the part that is still there should be as normal possible,” Karlsson revealed. 

 

[Blue Jay 22]

The proposal doesn't even give you 5 seconds on the phone with Yzerman.

[goalie13]

9 minutes ago, Xbox said:

Uh his issue isn't with Ottawa, he loves Ottawa. The issue is with the Senators organization and Melnyk. Don't know what those issues have to do with Vancouver.

Neither are playoff teams, nor will be any time soon.  Other than their wingnut owner, I don't see the Ottawa situation (from a hockey standpoint) as tremendously different than Vancouver.

[Green Building]

Rumour has it that Vegas was the team pushing harder than anyone else to bring Karlsson over. Knowing that they tickled Detroit with a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd for Tatar, and that they have a load of picks available to package, we can probably speculate that Vegas' rejected offers were the same or better than the one you've proposed.  

 

I think trading for Karlsson would kill this team, but what do I know. 

[Pears]

Not close to what Ottawa would want. You’re probably looking at something like Goldobin, Gaudette, Juolevi, Lind, 2018 1st (top 3-5 protected), conditional 2020 1st. 

[JM_]

1 minute ago, Green Building said:

Rumour has it that Vegas was the team pushing harder than anyone else to bring Karlsson over. Knowing that they tickled Detroit with a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd for Tatar, and that they have a load of picks available to package, we can probably speculate that Vegas' rejected offers were the same or better than the one you've proposed.  

 

I think trading for Karlsson would kill this team, but what do I know. 

it would be risky and cause other cap issues.... but if we ever do land a true 1D we'll be paying big dough too.

 

I'm more just trying to sound out what the deal would be, if any. 

[Green Building]

12 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

it would be risky and cause other cap issues.... but if we ever do land a true 1D we'll be paying big dough too.

 

I'm more just trying to sound out what the deal would be, if any. 

Oh for sure to all points. I don't think the cap worries me that much, it's more about what we'd have to part with in order to convince Ottawa to trade him away that worries me. There isn't a lot of precedent for moving a defenceman of his age and caliber, and unless Dorion goes full Boston Thornton the paying GM is going to have to bleed to make it so. The cost of a top flight dman is already high, and if Dorion is at all serious about keeping his job the return will have to be even higher than that. 

 

You can bet Stevie Y tried to lure him away from Ottawa with a better package than what he gave to NYR, but they had the cap to contend with in addition to making the deal better asset-wise. I think worrying about the money is secondary to figuring out what Ottawa would be willing to take for Karlsson. I usually stay away from proposal threads, but this one is interesting because it's Karlsson, and because Ottawa are in such financial ruin that they make Calgary's arena issue look favourable. I don't know if I'm making any sense, I've got a hangover this morning...  

[Alflives]

Don't want EK.  He will cost too much in assets, and too much in salary extension.  I see him beyond his prime, when our rebuild is completed and the young guys are ready to compete for playoffs.  

I think it's best we let another team gut their prospect pool and picks.

[billabong]

Melnyk will not retain salary on ryan

 

a 3rd pair guy, a frequent healthy scratch, a fringe nhl’er and a 1st rounder? 

 

Thats not even close. Not interested in Karlsson, we need picks and youth to fill out the line up 

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, billabong said:

Melnyk will not retain salary on ryan

 

a 3rd pair guy, a frequent healthy scratch, a fringe nhl’er and a 1st rounder? 

 

Thats not even close. Not interested in Karlsson, we need picks and youth to fill out the line up 

I'm thinking on this idea of getting EK.  If our prospect pool is good enough to consider our rebuild complete, and they only need to mature over the next couple seasons, then maybe getting now is the right timing?  

I would suggest our 2018 first rounder, unprotected for EK and Bobby Ryan's full contract.  We could buy out Ryan when the young guys are ready to take his spot, which could be summer of 2019.  We extend EK, and he is the number one Dman we've never had.  Maybe the timing is better getting EK now, than drafting a dman who will not be ready to help our next core for 4 or 5 years?  

I'm focused more on the timing of our guys coming into their primes together.

[Xbox]

45 minutes ago, goalie13 said:

Neither are playoff teams, nor will be any time soon.  Other than their wingnut owner, I don't see the Ottawa situation (from a hockey standpoint) as tremendously different than Vancouver.

That's a pretty significant difference.

[JM_]

12 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Don't want EK.  He will cost too much in assets, and too much in salary extension.  I see him beyond his prime, when our rebuild is completed and the young guys are ready to compete for playoffs.  

I think it's best we let another team gut their prospect pool and picks.

fair enough. I just can't help thinking Melnyk will force a move tho.... 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Jimmy McGill said:

fair enough. I just can't help thinking Melnyk will force a move tho.... 

Read on; I changed my mind.  It's my feminine side.