Victim Mentality - Universities teaching to see bias here there is none

[riffraff]

1 minute ago, Jimmy McGill said:

sure, of course. Stuff changes all the time, thats what keeps things interesting 

 

In this thread what I'm saying is its not an unreasonable position that the university community has a say in its own standards of speech and conduct. It all depends on the intent of the people they are trying to keep from speaking and whether or not people are doing things legally. 

 

I'm still waiting for a specific example of a person or group that was unreasonably barred from speaking on campus, so far its been pretty theoretical. 

I agree that an institution has the right to a code of conduct.  But I see taxis angle in that ultimately free speech is as determined by the lawmakers.

[VanGnome]

All I got out of that is there's a 400K a year salaried position to be a douchey left wing SJW, who's job it is to be judgemental of people who are not confused with reality.

Identity politics are the new scourge of this earth, forget radical islam, if this issue isn't dealt with sooner than later, there will be no one left to Jihad against.

[Toews]

Just now, riffraff said:

I suppose the isis person has the right to free speech until it becomes a threat and the teeth kicker has the right to act but must assume the consequences - all of the above being under the law?

IMO it doesn't even have to be a threat. It could be something like "9/11 was justified" and yes both have to deal with the consequences under the law. I would start a GoFundMe page for the  legal fees of the teethkicker.

[JM_]

33 minutes ago, riffraff said:

I agree that an institution has the right to a code of conduct.  But I see taxis angle in that ultimately free speech is as determined by the lawmakers.

yup, and they put limits on it. It all comes from real life not from a text book so it really does boil down to what we all for the most part think is a reasonable thing to say. 

 

I'm harping on Rob's topic today because I see a lot of far right guys and some reasonable just basic right side spectrum folks sometimes really quite upset over all these perceived things going on.... but very rarely do we hear of an actual real case thats unreasonable. I honestly can't think of one in the Canadian context at least that didn't have legitimate sides to it.

 

I really think there is a ton of manufactured outrage on the right these days, maybe it is partly a reaction to things like expanding rights to people they don't think deserve them or whatever but so much of it seems to be articles like the one @taxi and I are discussing today, that are pretty much bunk. There's a discussion to be had on the free speech angle for sure, but other than that the author is out in left - er right - field making up stuff. 

 

[JM_]

41 minutes ago, VanGnome said:

All I got out of that is there's a 400K a year salaried position to be a douchey left wing SJW, who's job it is to be judgemental of people who are not confused with reality.

Identity politics are the new scourge of this earth, forget radical islam, if this issue isn't dealt with sooner than later, there will be no one left to Jihad against.

I agree, I'm tired of hearing about fake refugee issues. 

[Ilunga]

32 minutes ago, HerrDrFunk said:

Absolute shocker coming from a guy who's claiming all universities are part of a communist conspiracy. I guess the image of communist icons at the top of his article should have been a tip off. 

I thought nothing could not surprise me in a world where a guy like Alex Jones had a large audience, that I heard yesterday has shrunk since his ban from social media. However I have just been reminded of the delusional beliefs of some human beings have no boundaries.

[Ilunga]

25 minutes ago, riffraff said:

until it becomes a threat and the teeth kicker has the right to act but must assume the consequences - all of the above being under the law?

This is somewhat different but still concerns acting within the law. My friends daughter was raped. Her brother and another friend beat the crap out of him. As the policeman who first came to my friends house stated , I would do the same if that was my daughter, however the law is the law.Both my friends sons have been to court 4 times ,costing them thousands and it has still not been settled,though it seems they will only get community service. The guy that raped my friends daughter has not been charged is claiming it was consensual and it  looks like he will get away with it. What would you do if that was your daughter ? I know exactly what I would do. The point I am making us that we do not have a justice system and I struggle to respect a legal system that enables outcomes like this.

[Smashian Kassian]

7 hours ago, HerrDrFunk said:

Hey Rob, honest question, have you spent any time in college or university as a student?

I did take a course at UFV (peace and conflict studies) that was somewhat along those lines. It wasn't like a total brainwashing or course whatever as the article says, but it was pretty constraining. And there was alot of the West Imperialist bashing and guilting.

 

Basically the prof choose the religious & ideological readings that we had to follow and write about. There wasn't much variance to it. I'm not an atheist or anything like that but I'm also not a very religious person and it made things very difficult to get through. I did my assignments and tried to just learn / stay on track with class time and the readings but even then it was difficult. And the class was like an echo chamber. It seemed like mostly everyone thought the same way (just as the prof) and there wasn't much debate in the class. I took it with a friend of mine,  and we would occasionally have a differing view on somethings. And to his credit my buddy would kind of challenge stuff from time to time but it was generally quickly dismissed and moved on from. 

 

The final essay we had to write about a conflict within the ideology/readings we were given to follow yet also tie it in with/as a local conflict in the current time and I had no idea where to start. I ended up writing about a local conflict that I felt was important. I did the research and tried hard to put together a good paper but it wasn't from the religious/ideological stuff like he wanted so I ended up getting a D and just passing. I didn't really care but I assume I didn't fail kind of ironically because of the Peace/Conflict premise of the course.  I did find parts of it interesting, it wasn't all bad, but I can kind of relate my experience to some of these things are bringing up with the education system. 

[Jester13]

20 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

This is somewhat different but still concerns acting within the law. My friends daughter was raped. Her brother and another friend beat the crap out of him. As the policeman who first came to my friends house stated , I would do the same if that was my daughter, however the law is the law.Both my friends sons have been to court 4 times ,costing them thousands and it has still not been settled,though it seems they will only get community service. The guy that raped my friends daughter has not been charged is claiming it was consensual and it  looks like he will get away with it. What would you do if that was your daughter ? I know exactly what I would do. The point I am making us that we do not have a justice system and I struggle to respect a legal system that enables outcomes like this.

We have a pretty darn good justice system, actually, and due process should always be respected no matter how you feel inside. That is why it is part of the legal system, because emotions can make humans do some incredibly horrible and stupid things. Imagine if you took matters into your own hands and killed the guy, or hurt him so badly that it changed his life forever, and then you found out he didn't do and your friend's daughter was lying. That can, and has, happened. That is also why we don't have the death penalty, because innocent people have been put to death before. 

[Smashian Kassian]

2 hours ago, VanGnome said:

All I got out of that is there's a 400K a year salaried position to be a douchey left wing SJW, who's job it is to be judgemental of people who are not confused with reality.

Identity politics are the new scourge of this earth, forget radical islam, if this issue isn't dealt with sooner than later, there will be no one left to Jihad against.

2

 

I agree on identity politics, too divisive. I think its just becoming counterproductive really. 

[riffraff]

1 hour ago, Ilunga said:

This is somewhat different but still concerns acting within the law. My friends daughter was raped. Her brother and another friend beat the crap out of him. As the policeman who first came to my friends house stated , I would do the same if that was my daughter, however the law is the law.Both my friends sons have been to court 4 times ,costing them thousands and it has still not been settled,though it seems they will only get community service. The guy that raped my friends daughter has not been charged is claiming it was consensual and it  looks like he will get away with it. What would you do if that was your daughter ? I know exactly what I would do. The point I am making us that we do not have a justice system and I struggle to respect a legal system that enables outcomes like this.

I have two daughters.  I won’t answer that question here.

[riffraff]

1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said:

yup, and they put limits on it. It all comes from real life not from a text book so it really does boil down to what we all for the most part think is a reasonable thing to say. 

 

I'm harping on Rob's topic today because I see a lot of far right guys and some reasonable just basic right side spectrum folks sometimes really quite upset over all these perceived things going on.... but very rarely do we hear of an actual real case thats unreasonable. I honestly can't think of one in the Canadian context at least that didn't have legitimate sides to it.

 

I really think there is a ton of manufactured outrage on the right these days, maybe it is partly a reaction to things like expanding rights to people they don't think deserve them or whatever but so much of it seems to be articles like the one @taxi and I are discussing today, that are pretty much bunk. There's a discussion to be had on the free speech angle for sure, but other than that the author is out in left - er right - field making up stuff. 

 

So much of the right seems, well, ignorant and paranoid but I will say as an old school 40’something, there is a ton of the left that irritates me to no end.

 

[CBH1926]

46 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

We have a pretty darn good justice system, actually, and due process should always be respected no matter how you feel inside. That is why it is part of the legal system, because emotions can make humans do some incredibly horrible and stupid things. Imagine if you took matters into your own hands and killed the guy, or hurt him so badly that it changed his life forever, and then you found out he didn't do and your friend's daughter was lying. That can, and has, happened. That is also why we don't have the death penalty, because innocent people have been put to death before. 

I think that your definition of pretty darn good may be different than mine.

What passes for justice in Canada is pitiful imo, for the most part victims get victimized again.

 

This is true indeed,  but plenty of guilty people have been executed as well.

One thing is certain though, recidivism rate for those guilty and executed is zero percent. 

 

 

[Ilunga]

11 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

We have a pretty darn good justice system, actually, and due process should always be respected no matter how you feel inside. That is why it is part of the legal system, because emotions can make humans do some incredibly horrible and stupid things. Imagine if you took matters into your own hands and killed the guy, or hurt him so badly that it changed his life forever, and then you found out he didn't do and your friend's daughter was lying. That can, and has, happened. That is also why we don't have the death penalty, because innocent people have been put to death before. 

I have no real idea about your legal system however I am very certain about ours. In many cases it is unjust.The only real winners are the lawyers. I could name a few cases I have heard of where the lawyers connections to the judge or bargaining with the police prosecutor saying I will back of in this case if you back off in another case we are involved in get a desired result. Often the more expensive lawyer knows how to twist words and the law to get a desired result.Do you call that justice. I know my friend's daughter was raped. I to am against the death penalty. I do not have to imagine anything. I know what I would do and you do not have to physically hurt some one to stop them from doing something. Like my dear departed father told me ,bones heal the mind often does not. I know he would never rape another woman again.

[Ilunga]

Just now, riffraff said:

I have two daughters.  I won’t answer that question here.

Unless you are a parent I do not think one can truly understand the pain involved.

[Rob_Zepp]

9 hours ago, HerrDrFunk said:

Hey Rob, honest question, have you spent any time in college or university as a student?

Yup.  Honest question deserves honest answer.

 

Was not in convention way or at convention age but, yup.

 

Believe it or not, was an all academic (best GPA) kid while in junior hockey.   I know that likely surprises you (lol).  

[HerrDrFunk]

56 minutes ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Yup.  Honest question deserves honest answer.

 

Was not in convention way or at convention age but, yup.

 

Believe it or not, was an all academic (best GPA) kid while in junior hockey.   I know that likely surprises you (lol).  

Nah, I wasn’t trying to make a crack at your intelligence at all (plus your scholastic accolades are on your Wikipedia page); I just know that for someone who played hockey at your level, conventional school ended early so I was curious if you’d attended classes day to day in a post secondary environment.

 

The reason I asked is because I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume you’re not just trying to stir the pot with the most recent article that you posted, and subscribe to some of what is being claimed there. That’s why I’m curious about your post secondary experience because mine was relatively recent and quite the contrast to what you fear is happening in universities.

[JM_]

14 hours ago, riffraff said:

So much of the right seems, well, ignorant and paranoid but I will say as an old school 40’something, there is a ton of the left that irritates me to no end.

 

we're giving way too much air time to the far ends of both these days. 

[riffraff]

10 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

we're giving way too much air time to the far ends of both these days. 

Someone is anyway.

[JM_]

Just now, riffraff said:

Someone is anyway.

Probably, but this idea of linking being a victim to people wanting diversity recognized is a pretty crappy thing happening right now. There's just no real link between the two and to me it really diminishes some people in an unfortunate way. Thats how i see it anyway.