[Trade] Canucks trade Jonathan Dahlen to Sharks for Linus Karlsson

[Timråfan]

Well, if Dahlen is fine playing with the Barracudaz he's not the diva some fans try to portait it. 

Besides, his father is an old NHL veteran and knows exactly how fans react to players in different situations. So it must be something in this mess no one wants to talk about. Hence Benning saving face... 

It looks more like a bad situation at Utica.

[Gurn]

6 minutes ago, Timråfan said:

Well, if Dahlen is fine playing with the Barracudaz he's not the diva some fans try to portait it.

Is he fine? I only ask because   the guy seems unsure of what is going on, and what happened regarding what his agent did or said.

[Attila Umbrus]

I think there is a misconception about Cull. I think he's a great coach and doing a good job with the farm team. He was on the power house Crunch teams and developed a lot of players that are now dominating in Tampa Bay...as we all can see from the standings, these players I think were coached the right way and Cull was a huge part in their development... Palmu and Dahlen are highly gifted offensive players, as such they have always been given big ice time most of their careers. It's a hard pill to swallow when you get to the AHL and you have to take a back seat to development. Cull is trying to teach them how to play the right way defensively. It's their biggest thing down there, making sure they have a 200 foot game that is ready to translate to the NHL. It's what the Canucks management have asked Utica and Cull to do with their prospects. Palmu and Dahlen have lots to learn to round out their games, but they both were impatient with their own development and both thought they should be playing more...so you see the end result, Palmu back to Finland and Dahlen to the Sharks. If Palmu doesn't wrap his head around the fact he has to have a solid 2 way game then he will never succeed with this team. 

 

Lind, Gadjovich, MacEwan, Brisbois, Sautner, Jasek, Chatfield are all examples of players who we drafted that are buying into the system. People on here clamouring that our rookies haven't gotten proper playing time are out to lunch. Lind and Gadj were not very good to start the season. But now the coaching staff is starting to implement them alot more in the line up as they gain confidence playing in a harder faster leauge than they once were in. Both are starting to look a lot better now. MacEwan we can see is well polished from our coaching group on the farm as well. Hell Kero, Boucher, Gaunce who are under contract are all looking good right now too. Goldy played lights out for the farm last season too. There is nothing wrong going on here...just prospect development...each have their own unique paths...one size does not fit all. Some will slip through the cracks and others will prosper. It's the way it is so chill out over Dahlen and Palmu please.

 

Another argument is the lack of high end talent on the farm and why we don't have anything there? Well look at our high end talent...it was so good it didn't need the farm they went straight to the NHL...Virtanen (yes he did play a bit there but not much), Boeser, Pettersson, Gaudette (minimal farm time), Hughes (since they already stated they want him in the NHL now)...only Juolevi has gone to the farm for development. This is something we should not complain about...wah wah we have no high end prospects in the AHL...haha, because they went straight to the NHL that's why...

 

Perspective is key in these arguments.

Edited February 27, 2019 by Attila Umbrus

[UTICANUCK]

Well said Attila.   Cull doing a very good job.   Tonight with D callups and Chatfield ill we will dress one longshot propect McEnaney on D with vets and ECHL callups.  Joining McEanany on D will be Sifers, Leblanc, Graham, Saucerman and just up from Kzoo Anselmini.  Compare to our Calder run with Corrado, Biega, Sanguinetti, Clendenning, Huskins and Sautner.    Forwards and tender (assuming Leighton) will have to be sharp to stay in the game against Rochester.  Weak D and solid but not spectacular tending requires forwards to hustle all 200 feet - hense Dahlen and Palmu's struggles in Utica.

[Attila Umbrus]

39 minutes ago, UTICANUCK said:

Well said Attila.   Cull doing a very good job.   Tonight with D callups and Chatfield ill we will dress one longshot propect McEnaney on D with vets and ECHL callups.  Joining McEanany on D will be Sifers, Leblanc, Graham, Saucerman and just up from Kzoo Anselmini.  Compare to our Calder run with Corrado, Biega, Sanguinetti, Clendenning, Huskins and Sautner.    Forwards and tender (assuming Leighton) will have to be sharp to stay in the game against Rochester.  Weak D and solid but not spectacular tending requires forwards to hustle all 200 feet - hense Dahlen and Palmu's struggles in Utica.

I just wish people would stop acting like they think the AHL is some bush league that our gifted prospects should just take over right away and succeed...it's so far from the truth. I've watched Vancouvers farm system teams all the way back to the Manitoba Moose years in the early 2000's. It's always the same thing, high end rookie comes in and is humbled by the quality of competition in the AHL. It's amazing how many think it's a cake walk...it is not, it's a great league with quality competition. It's no joke. 

[DeNiro]

Dahlen should have been given a call up if only to show him how far away he was, then told to get back to work.

 

While I don't agree with handing players opportunities, I think these young guys need to be given very clear direction and a plan set out for them. 

 

Seems to me at the very least there may be a serious communication gap between players and coaches at both levels.

[stawns]

3 hours ago, Bure_Pavel said:

My biggest concern, is the last sentence of the first paragraph. Although it should be hard work, it should also be fun for the players and they should be excited to come to the rink everyday. Cull doesn't seem to be that positive of a person (although I dont know him personally) and while he is a good coach, im not sure he is the best for developing young players.

to me, it sounds like he's not cut out for hockey in North America.  

[stawns]

8 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Dahlen should have been given a call up if only to show him how far away he was, then told to get back to work.

 

While I don't agree with handing players opportunities, I think these young guys need to be given very clear direction and a plan set out for them. 

 

Seems to me at the very least there may be a serious communication gap between players and coaches at both levels.

that's the way hockey in NA is, anyone who has ever played any high level hockey knows that, especially when you're a rookie.  You keep your head down, do what the coach tells you and you don't complain, ever.

[SergioMomesso]

Dahlen is not the first kid to think he's done enough to warrant a serious look in the bigs and won't be the last. Just look at Ho-Sang in New York, the kid has all the tools but if he doesn't buy into whatever systems are being taught then he won't play. And if there's no room to call him up, there's just no room. 

[DeNiro]

5 minutes ago, stawns said:

that's the way hockey in NA is, anyone who has ever played any high level hockey knows that, especially when you're a rookie.  You keep your head down, do what the coach tells you and you don't complain, ever.

May have been true in the past, not today however.

 

Players and agents seem to be more proactive in making sure they're in the best place possible for their development. If the communication isn't there or players don't feel like they're being given a fair opportunity, agents have no problem going to management and asking for a change.That's just the reality of hockey nowadays.

 

We can complain about it all we want, but management has to realize these issues are going to come up. If a player is having issues, deal with them right away rather than let them fester.

[Sedinyoureyesontheprize]

https://www.vancourier.com/pass-it-to-bulis/jonathan-dahlen-denies-demanding-trade-dials-in-on-development-1.23647695

[stawns]

I do, did, like JD very much and I wish him the best in the SJ organization.  IMO, it's a bit of a cultural disconnect between the way things are in European hockey and the way things work in NA.........I'm not saying one is better than the other, but that's what it feels like to me.

[stawns]

1 minute ago, DeNiro said:

May have been true in the past, not today however.

 

Players and agents seem to be more proactive in making sure they're in the best place possible for their development. If the communication isn't there or players don't feel like they're being given a fair opportunity, agents have no problem going to management and asking for a change.That's just the reality of hockey nowadays.

  

We can complain about it all we want, but management has to realize these issues are going to come up. If a player is having issues, deal with them right away rather than let them fester.

I think that's what happened.  They obviously had a sit down with his agent, discussed things and they decided it was best for all involved to move to another organization, rather than let things fester.  If there were a longer term issue, there's no way it would have been kept under wraps for any length of time.

[babalu]

14 hours ago, Setyoureyesontheprize said:

 

Here is the full interview from fear the fin:

 

https://www.fearthefin.com/platform/amp/2019/2/27/18242765/2019-nhl-trade-deadline-jonathan-dahlen-vancouver-canucks-jim-benning-san-jose-sharks-barracuda?utm_campaign=sheng_peng&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&__twitter_impression=true

 

Sounds to me that our prospects aren't being handled very well in Utica

Edited February 27, 2019 by babalu

[DeNiro]

8 minutes ago, stawns said:

I think that's what happened.  They obviously had a sit down with his agent, discussed things and they decided it was best for all involved to move to another organization, rather than let things fester.  If there were a longer term issue, there's no way it would have been kept under wraps for any length of time.

Based on Dahlen's comments and his character I find it hard to believe the issue was so bad that trading him was the only option.

 

I don't like players that won't put in the work (which may or may not be the case), but this organization cannot be giving away top prospects right now. We need as many in the system as possible. And if that means coddling a couple now and again so be it.

[stawns]

4 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Based on Dahlen's comments and his character I find it hard to believe the issue was so bad that trading him was the only option.

  

I don't like players that won't put in the work (which may or may not be the case), but this organization cannot be giving away top prospects right now. We need as many in the system as possible. And if that means coddling a couple now and again so be it.

I agree it likely wasn't the only issue.  It sounds like he was struggling 5v5 and was really wary of the physical side of the game and that just doesn't fit with the style they are trying to build.  

[DeNiro]

3 minutes ago, stawns said:

I agree it likely wasn't the only issue.  It sounds like he was struggling 5v5 and was really wary of the physical side of the game and that just doesn't fit with the style they are trying to build.  

Yea but they would have known that was a weakness in his game before trading for him.

 

It's up to the coaching staff to continue to work with him on it, not give up on him less than a season into his AHL career. Maybe he was unwilling to accept his weaknesses or just didn't get along with the coaching staff. However, I hate selling low on prospects before giving them a real shot.

 

They made the right call with Shinkaruk, but one of these times they're going to end up giving away a top 6 player. At the very least they need to build up these players value and package them for something that will actually help the team. As of right now it looks like we just gave him away for a long shot prospect.

[Canuck Surfer]

Dahlen's Dad was an NHLér.

 

And the agent was quoted as asking for a trade. But the player denied it? 

 

My own guess is the player did not want these things public. Who really knows...

 

I do know we have seen some parents who played in the NHL, see Kerby Rychel? Try and force the issue for their kids. They have connections, expectations. How many player agents force AHL trades, get in the organizations grill. It could be the agent, retained by the parent was pushing harder than the kid himself?  

[DeNiro]

6 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Dahlen's Dad was an NHLér.

 

And the agent was quoted as asking for a trade. But the player denied it? 

 

My own guess is the player did not want these things public. Who really knows...

 

I do know we have seen some parents who played in the NHL, see Kerby Rychel? Try and force the issue for their kids. They have connections, expectations. How many player agents force AHL trades, get in the organizations grill. It could be the agent, retained by the parent was pushing harder than the kid himself?  

It's funny because the stigma is typically that Russian players are the ones that pull these things, and that you're safer drafting Swedes because they're humble and low maintenance. 

 

Yet Goldobin has done nothing but put in the work, bide his time in the AHL, and now up and down in the NHL. And Dahlen goes to his agent and asks for a trade the first chance he sees some adversity.

 

Just interesting to see that stigma broken a little bit IMO.

[RWMc1]

8 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Dahlen's Dad was an NHLér.

 

And the agent was quoted as asking for a trade. But the player denied it? 

 

My own guess is the player did not want these things public. Who really knows...

 

I do know we have seen some parents who played in the NHL, see Kerby Rychel? Try and force the issue for their kids. They have connections, expectations. How many player agents force AHL trades, get in the organizations grill. It could be the agent, retained by the parent was pushing harder than the kid himself?  

That's the sense I get as well. If Dahlen really didn't know that his agent asked for a trade, then it is very possible that his agent tried to fast track him in order to start getting a higher return sooner. Benning has no choice but to go on the info he gets from the agent. If Benning and Dahlen both are truthful, then the disconnect was between Dahlen and his agent. As an agent, if you bring up a trade as a possibility, then it is your responsibility to make sure your client is aware of it. Seems like a similar thing to the Hogson situation.