HerrDrFunk Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 Say what you will about Torts' time in Vancouver, but by all accounts, him yelling at the Blue Jackets during the first period of the game 1 against Tampa (when the Blue Jackets were down 3-0) helped rally them to win that game. The Blue Jackets ended up sweeping the Lightning that series, by the way. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timråfan Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 8 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapShot said: So, given the option between not dressing a good player that could help you win and dressing them and yelling at them a bit to get them to do what you need them to do, you'd go with the former? Interesting. I wouldn't hire a player that I would need such a mediavel tool to deal with. It's kind of funny that you guys talk all the time about "earning" their spot on the roster/team but you have to yell at them before they do some earnings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 5 minutes ago, Timråfan said: I wouldn't hire a player that I would need such a mediavel tool to deal with. It's kind of funny that you guys talk all the time about "earning" their spot on the roster/team but you have to yell at them before they do some earnings... So the message here is that you still wouldn't play Dahlen, you just wouldn't have yelled at him. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzle Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 13 minutes ago, Timråfan said: I wouldn't hire a player that I would need such a mediavel tool to deal with. It's kind of funny that you guys talk all the time about "earning" their spot on the roster/team but you have to yell at them before they do some earnings... I think it's more funny that you bring up a player's ethnicity to justify why they are automatically better players to have on the team. You are getting a reputation for being a Don Cherry for Sweden. Because you know you love your "good 'Swedish' boys". 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timråfan Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 13 minutes ago, Dazzle said: I think it's more funny that you bring up a player's ethnicity to justify why they are automatically better players to have on the team. You are getting a reputation for being a Don Cherry for Sweden. Because you know you love your "good 'Swedish' boys". I can name Iceland in football as a great example of a real team. You get stuck in a very narrow path regarding my posting. You should try to understand why I wrote as I did in that post you think of instead of misinterpretet what Ivm talking about. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, Timråfan said: You should try to understand why I wrote as I did in that post you think of instead of misinterpretet what Ivm talking about. . Irony- look it up. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 3 hours ago, Timråfan said: The ridiculous and excessive bit is something I learned on this forum. If you say so. 3 hours ago, Timråfan said: "At the very last moment before the trading deadline in North America, finally came the news that Dahlén had been replaced. – I didn't know it was going on at all, it came a bit like a shock. I had just told my agent that I did not measure so well for various reasons, Dahlén says. When Hockey Pulse gets hold of him for an exclusive interview, he sits in his new hometown of San Jose. It has been hectic days and Dahlén has already debuted for the AHL team San Jose Barracuda. Now he tells of a winter that has torn him down. – I've gotten a little too much undeserved $&!# from some quarters there (Utica). I have really just said all the time that I want to play here, earn the playing time in the AHL and feel good simply. The agent has conveyed it further and in the end, well, the club did not think that I was feeling so good and then they chose well to trejda me. You didn't request a move? "No, I asked to be treated in a way that would allow me to feel good with myself so that I could play hockey at this level and I have printed on the whole year," says Dahlén, adding: – I don't know how the talking went between the agent and Vancouver, but it wasn't that I wanted to move or be trejdad, it wasn't the main goal right away. It has been a hassle when you do not want to get to the hall in the days Dahlén does not want to go into details about the situation or how he has been treated. "I've had amazingly good teammates so it's been good so, but it's elsewhere it has differed a bit and it has been similar with other younger players on the team. I don't know if that's the way they want to educate players, but there wasn't anything that worked on me. It was rather the opposite effect. In what way do you have metrics bad? – It has been a hassle when you do not want to get to the hall during the day, you think it is hard and you sit on the matches and want it to run out. Then it feels like you are wrong out there. It has been difficult mentally and switched to physicality in such a way as to lose energy. Now it's going to be exciting to play here in San Jose instead. The 21-year-old has built much of his career in the joy of hockey and he returns again and again that he quickly hopes to find his way back to it in his new environment. "My whole career has been joy straight off and I have loved playing hockey and got energy from it, I've always walked around with a smile on my face. It has been difficult when you did not really try to play his game, if a mistake happens, you sit on the bench and get a deplaning. It has been hard for me and it works safely on some, but not on me. "/// It's not a a very good translation, but I don't see anything about yelling (or is that the 'mistake happens, you sit on the bench and get a deplaning)? He's pretty vague about his treatment in Utica. Denies asking for a trade, but clearly didn't like his situation there. Makes an interesting comment about other young players being treated the same way, but nothing concrete; just a lot of ambiguity. Even with the terrible translation, it is clear that JD was very unhappy in Utica and he sounds thrilled to have been traded to San Jose. It appears that he will return to Timra this season, despite having a year left on his contract with SJ. So perhaps he did receive some 'rough treatment' in Utica, which caused him to lose his joy in the game. I believe another issue is that he came to NA as a star player in his hometown and probably had dreams of playing alongside his pal in the NHL. I'm sure it was a disappointing blow when he realized that he wouldn't be joining the Canucks anytime soon and was dealing with a situation in Utica that he thought was unjust. I have no doubt that JD will once again become a hero for Timra. I do wonder if he will stay in Sweden until he becomes a UFA and then try to get signed by a NHL club (which would solidify his chances of playing on the big team, rather than going to the AHL club). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timråfan Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 27 minutes ago, theo5789 said: So the message here is that you still wouldn't play Dahlen, you just wouldn't have yelled at him. If Dahlen didn't listen to what I say, of course. But in this case with Dahlen it looks like the coaches stopped his creativity. So , I think I would hire coaches that can outsmart the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timråfan Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, gurn said: Irony- look it up. The problem is, if I have to write a book in every post to explain this would be more than a full time job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 (edited) Most of us - at least those of us that have played higher level sports - have played with guys that have had lots of natural talent - but simply lacked a vital element regardless - call it work ethic, drive, whatever you want - and have watched as those players become peripheral/ get surpassed by guys that may have been less 'gifted'/talented, but work harder. It has nothing to do with 'ethnicity'/nationality. And typically, those players are also not the 'types' to respond well to strong-arm tactics - if anything, that 'type' tends to fade even worse when confronted with their limits/mortality. But the bottom line is not the responsibility of coaches - it's the disposition/character of the player - and it's their career that is in the balance. I think people these days tend to have overcompensating perspectives - ie that these guys should be coddled and will inevitably succeed/flourish if they are given the right soft soap conditions in which to develop. The problem with that idea is the assumption that they have that vital ingredient latent within them that will emerge if they're just 'handled' properly. That's not necessarily the case - and the balancing act that coaches attempt to walk - between being supportive/patient, etc and pushing players/using 'tough love' is not an easy one with all individuals. Some guys simply don't have and/or don't develop the mental game necessary to compete as the competition they face progresses. Blaming their 'conditions' / the approach of coaches/development is oversimplified imo. I've never been a fan of the Keenan/Tortorella types - I think their arrogance, hard-headedness, and self-righteousness can tend to wear thin in a hurry with emotionally developed athletes (and ballbusting imo tends to backfire hard with the best of your players - the ones that don't need their balls busted - and that tends to be a majority at elite levels imo) but at the same time, pro-sport is as 'meritocracy' as it gets in life = and talent is not entitlement. 'Hard work beats talent that doesn't work hard' = is a pretty relevent truism imo. The story that Dahlen has been 'mishandled' sounds a lot like overcompensating new age narrative - possibly every bit as unviable / imbalanced as traditional "hairdryers". Edited August 5, 2019 by oldnews 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HerrDrFunk Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 9 minutes ago, Timråfan said: The problem is, if I have to write a book in every post to explain this would be more than a full time job. That sounds like a "you" issue if one needs to write a book to get their point across. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timråfan Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 14 minutes ago, higgyfan said: It's not a a very good translation, but I don't see anything about yelling (or is that the 'mistake happens, you sit on the bench and get a deplaning)? Avhyvling/deplaning is similar to hairdryer/yelling. Quote He's pretty vague about his treatment in Utica. Denies asking for a trade, but clearly didn't like his situation there. Makes an interesting comment about other young players being treated the same way, but nothing concrete; just a lot of ambiguity. What he says is at the problem is at coach level. Great players but the way the club tries to foster the players isn't good for some of the young players. I can promise you that Petey wouldn't be the star he is today if he had to go through Utica. This is a problem for the Canucks. They want players like Petey but they don't want to foster players like him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baratheon Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 As a coach myself I can speak a little bit from experience. Now I coach an individual sport so there are definitely some huge differences from a team game. What I can tell you however is that yelling at a guy can be positive or negative depending on the person and the timing. As a coach it is your responsibility to recognize both. Some guys I have worked with would clam up and perform terribly if you yelled at them. The added anxiety of someone yelling is just awful on their performance. Then other guys give you that look like "what the hell did you say to me coach!?" They then go out and turn up the intensity big time. I'm glad I only work with one at a time haha. Best of luck to you hockey coaches! (And other coaches of team sports) 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timråfan Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 6 minutes ago, HerrDrFunk said: That sounds like a "you" issue if one needs to write a book to get their point across. Yes, and a bit short of vocabulary etc... The lack of hockey terminology in english makes it even tougher to make people understand. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 5 minutes ago, Timråfan said: Avhyvling/deplaning is similar to hairdryer/yelling. What he says is at the problem is at coach level. Great players but the way the club tries to foster the players isn't good for some of the young players. I can promise you that Petey wouldn't be the star he is today if he had to go through Utica. This is a problem for the Canucks. They want players like Petey but they don't want to foster players like him. Petey is internally motivated to be the best player, and will do whatever it takes to attain that level. He’s hyper compete. He needs no external motivation, only direction. Dahlen is soft emotionally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timråfan Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 6 minutes ago, Alflives said: Petey is internally motivated to be the best player, and will do whatever it takes to attain that level. He’s hyper compete. He needs no external motivation, only direction. Dahlen is soft emotionally. Petey has a lot of emotions and if the coach feck it up Petey wants out... Wich could have happen in Utica but now everyone knows how good Petey is so it's no chance he will be in Utica. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 14 minutes ago, Timråfan said: Avhyvling/deplaning is similar to hairdryer/yelling. What he says is at the problem is at coach level. Great players but the way the club tries to foster the players isn't good for some of the young players. I can promise you that Petey wouldn't be the star he is today if he had to go through Utica. This is a problem for the Canucks. They want players like Petey but they don't want to foster players like him. Profoundly ignorant thing to say. All you seem to know about the Comets is the bitterness coming from JD. You should stop this nonsense. You are not a fan of the Canucks and know very little about the organization; including the Comets. I say so long ol' chappy. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzle Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 19 minutes ago, Timråfan said: Petey has a lot of emotions and if the coach feck it up Petey wants out... Wich could have happen in Utica but now everyone knows how good Petey is so it's no chance he will be in Utica. Puhleeze. The blame Utica narrative is only part of the last season's story - not the whole story. Pettersson made it to the NHL because he deserved to be there - not because Benning wanted to rush a player's development. Did Dahlen deserve to play in the NHL? NO. Most recently, he was with SJ and of course you'll make more excuses about Dahlen. Timrafan - are you really Dahlen? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timråfan Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Dazzle said: Puhleeze. The blame Utica narrative is only part of the last season's story - not the whole story. Pettersson made it to the NHL because he deserved to be there - not because Benning wanted to rush a player's development. Did Dahlen deserve to play in the NHL? NO. Most recently, he was with SJ and of course you'll make more excuses about Dahlen. Timrafan - are you really Dahlen? I believe Dahlen should have played a full season in SHL before coming over. Hey, how can I be Dahlen and Louis mom? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timråfan Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 2 hours ago, higgyfan said: Profoundly ignorant thing to say. All you seem to know about the Comets is the bitterness coming from JD. You should stop this nonsense. You are not a fan of the Canucks and know very little about the organization; including the Comets. I say so long ol' chappy. What bitterness? I read an honest, down to earth interview by him. He is a player that got caught between an old structure(Utica) and a newer(Timrå). Dahlen is a player that needs other aspects of hockey besides money. Please, inform me how the Comets work, coachwise? What is it Dahlen talks about that stop him from being creative? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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