Warhippy Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Just now, Kragar said: Nicely put, never looked at it that way. That's effectively what is going to happen. A Bernie Bro pointed that out when they polled the super delegates last week and they overwhelmingly said no matter what they'd not support Sanders even with a plurality. That the only way Sanders got their endorsement was overwhelming numbers that forced their hands. When you're walking in to the single most important date for the nomination and the entirety of the essential numbers have said tough cookie you're not getting our vote it's literally the exact same as Clinton watching the electoral college say tough cookie, you're not getting our vote. In both instances a minority is deciding the outcome over the majority. But in this instance, the DNC is doing it and ignoring the glaring hypocrisy of their actions while still mentioning the electoral college here and there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said: The DNC reformed their system of Super Delegates approx 3 years ago. Bernie had a major say in how it was reformed and is fine with it. I'm aware he did and you're right they did. But it doesn't change the fact that for 4 years the DNC raged about the electoral college deciding the election over the popular vote only to turn around and decide the nomination over the popular vote 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Warhippy said: Watching the DNC effectively tell the U30 crowd "it doesn't matter what you want, we have already made our choice" has to be disheartening I can understand why these Bernie supporters, after you lay things out like you did, refuse to vote in the Presidential election. They (am I getting this right?) see no big difference between the Republican Party and their party when it comes to desire to make important and much needed social change. Edited March 4, 2020 by Alflives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuckin_futz Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Warhippy said: I'm aware he did and you're right they did. But it doesn't change the fact that for 4 years the DNC raged about the electoral college deciding the election over the popular vote only to turn around and decide the nomination over the popular vote I don't get this. 4 yrs ago Clinton received more votes than Bernie. It's been a while since I have bothered to look at this stuff but I am fairly certain if you backed out every Super Delagate she still beat him. There was certainly opportunity for some tomfoolery but in the end there was no tomfoolery in regards to super delegates. Edited March 4, 2020 by nuckin_futz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 11 minutes ago, Warhippy said: This is truly ironic, especially as the DNC has raged for 4 years about Clinton winning the popular vote but the electoral college selecting Trump as the presidential winner Hypocrisy, thy name is Democrat yeah with the whole super delegate thing its pretty much over imo. Biden is such a terrible candidate, I don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said: I don't get this. 4 yrs ago Clinton received more votes than Bernie. It's been a while since I have bothered to look at this stuff but I am fairly certain if you backed out every Super Delagate she still beat him. There was certainly opportunity for some tomfoolery but in the end there was no tomfoolery in regards to super delegates. That is true. But it also discounts what the DNC did in terms of shutting out sanders supporters from conventions, eliminating so many people from the lists (which also ensured they couldn't vote during the general election) and more. The DNC did everything in their power to ensure Clinton won. The numbers regardless were on her side but they ensured their chosen pony won period. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Just now, Jimmy McGill said: yeah with the whole super delegate thing its pretty much over imo. Biden is such a terrible candidate, I don't get it. Do you think. Emperor Trump. or Supreme Leader Trump has a better ring to it? After todays look in to allowing the POTUS to hire/fire at will, potentially eliminating a near century old set of laws that allowed for independent oversight over major departments the writing is on the wall for where the US is headed when Trump beats Biden 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 6 minutes ago, Alflives said: I can understand why these Bernie supporters, after you lay things out like you did, refuse to vote in the Presidential election. They (am I getting this right?) see no big difference between the Republican Party and their party when it comes to desire to make important and much needed social change. bingo Alf. Establishment democrat or establishment republican, both screw over young voters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said: I don't get this. 4 yrs ago Clinton received more votes than Bernie. It's been a while since I have bothered to look at this stuff but I am fairly certain if you backed out every Super Delagate she still beat him. There was certainly opportunity for some tomfoolery but in the end there was no tomfoolery in regards to super delegates. Read what former DNC Chair, Donna Brazile, says about bad stuff going on her party. It’s quite revealing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, Warhippy said: Do you think. Emperor Trump. or Supreme Leader Trump has a better ring to it? After todays look in to allowing the POTUS to hire/fire at will, potentially eliminating a near century old set of laws that allowed for independent oversight over major departments the writing is on the wall for where the US is headed when Trump beats Biden the only thing thats going to beat Trump now is a heart attack. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuckin_futz Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, Warhippy said: That is true. But it also discounts what the DNC did in terms of shutting out sanders supporters from conventions, eliminating so many people from the lists (which also ensured they couldn't vote during the general election) and more. The DNC did everything in their power to ensure Clinton won. The numbers regardless were on her side but they ensured their chosen pony won period. Yeah not gonna argue with that. No question the DNC preferred Clinton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toews Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said: I don't get this. 4 yrs ago Clinton received more votes than Bernie. It's been a while since I have bothered to look at this stuff but I am fairly certain if you backed out every Super Delagate she still beat him. Life is full of disappointments and compromises, you don't always get exactly what you want. The ones that will hold their nose and not vote because their preferred candidate lost are cutting off their nose to spite their face. We have been seen the results of that the last four years. If they stay home and opt to see the sequel then they are dumber than the dumbest Trump supporter, that's about as politely as I can put it. Edited March 4, 2020 by Toews 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Just now, Toews said: Life is full of disappointments and compromises, you don't always get exactly what you want. The ones that will hold their nose and not vote because their preferred candidate lost are cutting their nose off to spite their face. We have been seen the results of that the last four years. If they stay home and opt to see the sequel then they are dumber than the dumbest Trump supporter, that's about as politely as I can put it. but what evidence do they have that things will be better for them under the establishment candidate? I agree with you, I hate it when people give up, but I can see why young US voters would be completely disillusioned and its not because they're stupid. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuckin_futz Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Just now, Jimmy McGill said: the only thing thats going to beat Trump now is a heart attack. Disagree. This election will be all about the Rust Belt. Those states were economically disappointed in Obama so they flipped to Trump. What has Trump done for them? They're very flippable again. A ticket of Biden/Klobuchar would do very well in the Rust Belt. I could see them flipping Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania and perhaps even Ohio. In addition to that they could flip Florida. Bernie has zero chance of flipping Florida. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 1 minute ago, nuckin_futz said: Disagree. This election will be all about the Rust Belt. Those states were economically disappointed in Obama so they flipped to Trump. What has Trump done for them? They're very flippable again. A ticket of Biden/Klobuchar would do very well in the Rust Belt. I could see them flipping Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania and perhaps even Ohio. In addition to that they could flip Florida. Bernie has zero chance of flipping Florida. I hope you're correct on that. But switching votes from an incumbent is harder to do than when you have two new candidates to choose from. I personally don't see Biden being strong enough to get people to switch but I guess we'll see what the message is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBH1926 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 5 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said: Disagree. This election will be all about the Rust Belt. Those states were economically disappointed in Obama so they flipped to Trump. What has Trump done for them? They're very flippable again. A ticket of Biden/Klobuchar would do very well in the Rust Belt. I could see them flipping Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania and perhaps even Ohio. In addition to that they could flip Florida. Bernie has zero chance of flipping Florida. Same crowd that thinks Biden has no chance believes that Sanders would beat Trump. Its called cognitive dissonance 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toews Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Jimmy McGill said: but what evidence do they have that things will be better for them under the establishment candidate? I agree with you, I hate it when people give up, but I can see why young US voters would be completely disillusioned and its not because they're stupid. I think the evidence has been the last four years. I understand that people can get myopic and only think about themselves but there is a madman currently in the White House whose decisions or more appropriately his whims have immense global consequences. You can aim for progress but at least establish some sanity first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBH1926 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 21 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said: I don't get this. 4 yrs ago Clinton received more votes than Bernie. It's been a while since I have bothered to look at this stuff but I am fairly certain if you backed out every Super Delagate she still beat him. There was certainly opportunity for some tomfoolery but in the end there was no tomfoolery in regards to super delegates. HC got 4 million more votes, won more states, and even if all 771 super delegates voted for Sanders, she still would have won. But yeah lets not get those stats affect our narrative. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 16 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said: Yeah not gonna argue with that. No question the DNC preferred Clinton. Too much meddling. Let the people decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 12 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: but what evidence do they have that things will be better for them under the establishment candidate? I agree with you, I hate it when people give up, but I can see why young US voters would be completely disillusioned and its not because they're stupid. That's the biggest issue for the Democrats. They're only interested in serving their base if their base votes correctly. Sound familiar? The DNC learned nothing from 2016. Nothing. It's as archaic an institution as the GOP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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