[Proposal] Kessel on Bo’s wing + signing EK65

[18W-40C-6W]

6 hours ago, Hindustan Smyl said:

Not really a fan of the idea of getting both Kessel or Karlsson (let alone getting one).

 

Kessel would cost us a lot of assets, and he doesn’t really fit here age-wise.  

 

Karlsson would cost us at or near 11 million, and his body is starting to break down.  

 

I agree that getting a playmaking winger for Horvat is important, but I don’t think Kessel is our guy.

 

People will disagree with me on this, but my hope is for William Nylander.  The kid is 22-23 years old and already has two 20+ goal/60+ point seasons under his belt.    Nylander’s value right now is relatively low because of Toronto’s cap situation, and also because Nylander’s production last year was underwhelming (due to him not having had a full training camp).   Trade the 2019 first for Nylander and fix that 2nd line.

Nylander is softer than baby powder bro. I live in Toronto, see most leaf games on TV, he's a great reg season player because he's talented and has room, and plays on the permiter with Auston Matthews up the middle. He disappears in the playoffs, doesn't compete hard for pucks, go to the dirty areas, and is just an all around lazy floater. He's not a guy you win with nor a guy you tie up 8 mil in. Reg season points mean Jack if you disappear when it gets hard. Hard pass on pretty boy Willie

[PhillipBlunt]

I hear Kessel needs constant upkeep...

[thejazz97]

6 minutes ago, YEGCanuck said:

Lets be clear we don't want Kessel or Karlsson. They are both over-priced and arguably on the down-side of their careers.

Right, but both have a helluva long way to go before they reach a point that whoever's paying them is paying them more than their worth. Karlsson is obviously not the skater he used to be, but he's still one of if not the most skilled defenseman in the league. 

 

Kessel's also worth his paycheque and will be for quite some time. 

 

That being said, both are older than what our team should be looking for. Maybe Panarin? Maybe? 

[Drakrami]

rofl, you think giving away 3 of our unwanted pieces is going to get you Kessels. aha aha aha... At the very least, Minny is giving away a legit 2nd liner in Zucker, and that is considered undervalue. 

[groovy]

My guess is Kessel winds up in Arizona who need scoring, as he had a good relationship with Rick Tocchet. Would not want to have Kessel`s questionable character personally. Can just imagine Phil and Jake hanging out at some all-you-can-eat buffett and shooting beers. No thanks.

[Hindustan Smyl]

1 hour ago, 18W-40C-6W said:

Nylander is softer than baby powder bro. I live in Toronto, see most leaf games on TV, he's a great reg season player because he's talented and has room, and plays on the permiter with Auston Matthews up the middle. He disappears in the playoffs, doesn't compete hard for pucks, go to the dirty areas, and is just an all around lazy floater. He's not a guy you win with nor a guy you tie up 8 mil in. Reg season points mean Jack if you disappear when it gets hard. Hard pass on pretty boy Willie

Oh ok I see.   Thank you clarifying as I haven’t seen him much.    His playoff stats indicate that he’s around .5 ppg, which isn’t terrible but isn’t great either.  

 

The “vision” I had for Nylander was for him to play with Horvat and Pearson on the second line.  Horvat, much like Matthews, could be the ‘bull’ on that line and let Nylander stay more to the outside.  Nylander May have his warts, but 20+ goals for a second line winger is pretty decent.  

 

The other thing with Nylander is that after next season, his cap his would actually fall to below 7 million (6.9ish?).   

 

But having said all that, your opinion will be more accurate than mine since you’ve since multiple Leaf games in TO.   Kapanen would have been nice but Toronto ain’t giving him up.

[Generational.EP40]

7 hours ago, Stech said:

 Kessel is going to be way past his prime in the last couple years of that contract. No thanks

He only has 3 years remaining on the contract and he’s only 31. Talk about an overreaction lol.

 

Kessel’s style of play will allow him to play into his mid -to-late 30’s hypothetically speaking while still being effective. He won’t decline rapidly as some players do so there should be no worry with him being 34 when his current contract expires. He’ll still be doing his thing. 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Kessel is 31 years old. 

The Leafs tried with Kessel in his prime, and it got them no where. 

Kessel can't carry the load himself, he's a complimentary piece. Which is why he works well with the Penguins. 

Pass.

Brock Nelson just got re-signed by the Islanders. That's more of the kind of player we need. Same level of cap hit. Has size, and put up over 50 points and is 27 years old.

 

Well yeah thanks, you just answered the question yourself  that’s exactly what Kessel would be, a vital complimentary piece to our already EP, Brock, Bo, Hughes, young core, etc. 

 

Eww. 6x6 for a guy who finally put up 50 points at age 27? No thanks. We should have learned already that those contracts end up being albatrosses 

[Generational.EP40]

1 hour ago, Coconuts said:

Value ain't close there tbh. Gets you maybe a quarter pounder of Kessel. 

 

1 hour ago, mpt said:

Haha you are dreaming if the Penguins will trade Kessel for that

 

True. I was going off the Minny reported trade. 

 

In which case, I’m sure if I add or replace Spooner with Hutton, that would more than likely be enticing enough for Pens.

[Kuzy]

16 minutes ago, Generational.EP40 said:

He only has 3 years remaining on the contract and he’s only 31. Talk about an overreaction lol.

 

Kessel’s style of play will allow him to play into his mid -to-late 30’s hypothetically speaking while still being effective. He won’t decline rapidly as some players do so there should be no worry with him being 34 when his current contract expires. He’ll still be doing his thing. 

 

When Kessel has 2 years left on his contract, and it's time to extend EP and other young stars, do you really want Phil freaking Kessel in his mid 30s with a high cap hit underachieving and taking up cap room? Not overreacting, rather it simply not being a fit for our team given the contract timeline for our young stars. Why not target a top 6 player (without all the hotdog media attention) with a smaller, shorter contract, it would be much easier to move once we start feeling the cap crunch. And why trade prime assets for him while we're rebuilding? We need more picks, not less. We need leaders and character guys to add to our room, Kessel is not.

 

Your entire post relies on the assumption that he'll be effective based on his "style of play". When his numbers start to decline, what will be your excuse then?

[HughMungus]

To Van

Phill Kessel

Phills personal cheeseburgers

 

To Pits

Tanev 50% retained

Adam Gaudette/Granlund

The Rights to Nikita Tryamkin

Future Considerations

 

Pits clears major cap gets better at D. Can sign a younger FA winger to produce.

[DrJockitch]

They didn't want to pay Sutter when they had him, why would they want to pay the broken down wreck that used to be Sutter now.

Goldy and Zukker are very different players.  Whoever just compared points per game and decided they are similar really needs to give their head a shake.

Where do people think we are in this rebuild?  

Kessel is the type of guy you can have in a dressing room like Pittsburgh's where there is great veteran leadership.  When he comes in as the veteran leadership you have done something very wrong.

[Generational.EP40]

25 minutes ago, Stech said:

When Kessel has 2 years left on his contract, and it's time to extend EP and other young stars, do you really want Phil freaking Kessel in his mid 30s with a high cap hit underachieving and taking up cap room? Not overreacting, rather it simply not being a fit for our team given the contract timeline for our young stars. Why not target a top 6 player (without all the hotdog media attention) with a smaller, shorter contract, it would be much easier to move once we start feeling the cap crunch. And why trade prime assets for him while we're rebuilding? We need more picks, not less. We need leaders and character guys to add to our room, Kessel is not.

 

Your entire post relies on the assumption that he'll be effective based on his "style of play". When his numbers start to decline, what will be your excuse then?

 

Sorry but you’re completely off the mark here. The great thing about Kessel is the contract cap hit+term is a complete bargain & steal for the production he puts up. The going number for comparable players is north of $9m+.

 

You’re making this out to be as if he has 5 years left on his contract and he’s 34 years old. When in fact he has 3 left and he’s 31 so it won’t even take him to his “mid 30s” and by no means is it a “high cap hit”. The only thing smaller than 3 year contract is 2 or 1 so yea, it’s already small term. And idk what sort of top6 player you can get for cheaper or shorter than Kessel. He arguably has the best bang-for-buck contract in the entire league other than ELCs. Also, what “prime asset” did I include and what pick? They’re not essential to us and it’s why it works because Rutherford is fine getting a return like that to balance his middle6, he’s known to want returns like that looking at his history. And likewise there was no pick offered. 

 

...and I’d like to know where you got this notion that he’ll underachieve and his numbers will decline? Track record and stats say otherwise as his numbers have gone up the last few years. Even if he does decline, it will be a little dip as in a 10 point difference rather than a sharp cliff as if he completely forgets how to score and even at that, it’d maybe be on the 3rd and final year of the contract though I doubt it. I can see it happening after his current contract expires. 

[Generational.EP40]

1 minute ago, DrJockitch said:

They didn't want to pay Sutter when they had him, why would they want to pay the broken down wreck that used to be Sutter now.

Goldy and Zukker are very different players.  Whoever just compared points per game and decided they are similar really needs to give their head a shake.

Where do people think we are in this rebuild?  

Kessel is the type of guy you can have in a dressing room like Pittsburgh's where there is great veteran leadership.  When he comes in as the veteran leadership you have done something very wrong.

That was under a different regime and they would’ve kept him except the cap caught up to the team. They’ve been going after rental 3Cs for years and it’s clear Rutherford wants to get that cemented now. Sutter is a defensive workhorse and teams know that. He takes the load off top players and there’s value to that. 

 

And who who says he’s coming in as veteran leadership? He’s coming in to put up points. 

[mll]

Just now, Generational.EP40 said:

That was under a different regime and they would’ve kept him except the cap caught up to the team. They’ve been going after rental 3Cs for years and it’s clear Rutherford wants to get that cemented now. Sutter is a defensive workhorse and teams know that. He takes the load off top players and there’s value to that. 

 

And who who says he’s coming in as veteran leadership? He’s coming in to put up points. 

Same regime.  Rutherford has been in place since 2014 and he's the one that traded Sutter away.  They just acquired Bjustad from the Panthers to be C3.  

[qwijibo]

2 minutes ago, Generational.EP40 said:

That was under a different regime and they would’ve kept him except the cap caught up to the team. They’ve been going after rental 3Cs for years and it’s clear Rutherford wants to get that cemented now. Sutter is a defensive workhorse and teams know that. He takes the load off top players and there’s value to that. 

 

And who who says he’s coming in as veteran leadership? He’s coming in to put up points. 

Actually, it’s not. Rutherford is the GM who has traded Sutter away not once, but twice.  Once when he was GM if Carolina and again when he traded Sutter from Pittsburgh to Vancouver. 

[Generational.EP40]

Just now, mll said:

Same regime.  Rutherford has been in place since 2014 and he's the one that traded Sutter away.  They just acquired Bjustad from the Panthers to be C3.  

 

 

My bad. I didn’t realize he’s been there so long now.

 

Either way it was a cap decision at that point in time. Bjugstad has been primarily playing on the wing and up down the top3 lines for the Pens. He’s not an everyday centre and Pens don’t see him as one, thus why they’re looking for centre in a Kessel return  

[mll]

4 minutes ago, Generational.EP40 said:

 

 

My bad. I didn’t realize he’s been there so long now.

 

Either way it was a cap decision at that point in time. Bjugstad has been primarily playing on the wing and up down the top3 lines for the Pens. He’s not an everyday centre and Pens don’t see him as one, thus why they’re looking for centre in a Kessel return  

Rask is a cap dump for taking on Johnson.  

[Alflives]

2 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

I hear Kessel needs constant upkeep...

We had Krutov, when he was near the end of his playing days.  Do we need to go through that hot dog eating experience again?

[mpt]

1 hour ago, Generational.EP40 said:

 

 

True. I was going off the Minny reported trade. 

 

In which case, I’m sure if I add or replace Spooner with Hutton, that would more than likely be enticing enough for Pens.

I doubt it.

[18W-40C-6W]

1 hour ago, Hindustan Smyl said:

Oh ok I see.   Thank you clarifying as I haven’t seen him much.    His playoff stats indicate that he’s around .5 ppg, which isn’t terrible but isn’t great either.  

 

The “vision” I had for Nylander was for him to play with Horvat and Pearson on the second line.  Horvat, much like Matthews, could be the ‘bull’ on that line and let Nylander stay more to the outside.  Nylander May have his warts, but 20+ goals for a second line winger is pretty decent.  

 

The other thing with Nylander is that after next season, his cap his would actually fall to below 7 million (6.9ish?).   

 

But having said all that, your opinion will be more accurate than mine since you’ve since multiple Leaf games in TO.   Kapanen would have been nice but Toronto ain’t giving him up.

I actually think we should offer sheet Kapanen. Leafs are going to be in Cap hell post Marner, Kapanen brings alot more than Nylander ever will, think a faster version with Hansen with actual hands. If we offer between $4,227,438-$6,341,152: we give up a 1st and 3rd , Kapanen is worth this to us. Young, RW, size, incredible speed, plays a hard 2 way game and competes. He and Jonsson scored 20 this year, leafs will try to low ball both, if someone offer sheets, they won't be able to match, as Marner's agent is going to expect Matthews money and rightly so. That Nylander contract is a major problem for them.

 

We should offer 7 years x 6 mil (a bit of an overpayment) but he'll be such a valuable add to our top six, Would be able to play with Bo or Petey, Kill penalties (scores alot of shorties), and the PP.

 

Virtanen Petey Kapanen

Baer Bo Brock

Edited May 24, 2019 by 18W-40C-6W