[Rumour] Gostisbehere to MTL?

[Ronaldoescobar]

I think there are a lot of people that are just in love with Ben Hutton.

[Glug Datt]

9 hours ago, D-Money said:

He definitely has some warts defensively. And with Provorov and the revelation of Sanheim, he's probably their 3rd best overall LHD. (I think he usually plays the right side for Philly, likely due to them not having enough RH guys. This probably magnifies his defensive shortcomings).

 

But he'd still be a big upgrade to our D-core. Having him and Hughes running our powerplays instead of Edler and Stecher would be a huge boost to our offense.

 

hmmm..

 

either way, that's what I would have thought.. I wonder if Van has any assets that would interest the Flyers.. 

 

[Alflives]

2 hours ago, Ronaldoescobar said:

I think there are a lot of people that are just in love with Ben Hutton.

Ben Hutton  

 

[JM_]

4 hours ago, Alflives said:

No, but we need guys who play a heavier game to balance with the guys who don't.  I see Hutton as a guy who is learning he needs to play a heavier game to be the best he can be. 

Ideally we would have a great number one, who could play both roles, but those guys are 10 million and up.  Ghost, to me, is a guy we don't need.   

I hear your point on need, but I don't see Hutty as that guy, at all. We may need to wait for Woo for that-  who btw might be a great partner for Ghost 

[The Lock]

On 6/12/2019 at 2:38 PM, Alflives said:

No, but we need guys who play a heavier game to balance with the guys who don't.  I see Hutton as a guy who is learning he needs to play a heavier game to be the best he can be. 

Ideally we would have a great number one, who could play both roles, but those guys are 10 million and up.  Ghost, to me, is a guy we don't need.   

Waiting for Hutton to become a more physical player though is like waiting for Kassian to become that power forward we thought he would be, or Virtanen to become a 1st line power forward, or Taylor Pyatt to not be a pylon and get more physical. None of these players are bad players but expecting them to play how they don't naturally play, while they might be able to develop into that player, it's not an easy path to ask for as evidenced by what we've seen.

[oldnews]

On 6/12/2019 at 8:08 AM, D-Money said:

 

Not to mention, Hutton is probably demanding the same salary ($4.5M).

Quote

I don't know whether to  or ...

 

[D-Money]

33 minutes ago, oldnews said:

 

As quoted earlier:

 

The importance of selling now

 

Selling Hutton this summer should be a priority because of his pending RFA status. By all indications, the soon to be 26-year-old will come at a hefty cost.

 

“Hutton is arbitration eligible this season and his agent is going to argue he has proven himself as a legitimate top four defenceman. In fact, the 22:33 minutes per game he averages puts him in the NHL’s top 40,” said colleague Jason Botchford.

 

“It means the Canucks have deployed him like a top pairing defenceman and his agent will argue that a contract in the $4 million range is a bargain for a top pair defenceman. Arbitration cases are interesting because the sides are limited in the number of stats which can be presented. The two most important are average ice time and points-per-game.

 

“Hutton’s 0.31 points per game puts him in the top 100 in the NHL and if I’m him I’m using the Mike Matheson extension as a comparable. “The Canucks signed Erik Gudbranson last year to $4 million-per-year extension and Hutton’s camp will argue his role has been bigger. They won’t be wrong.”

Edited June 14, 2019 by D-Money

[oldnews]

2 hours ago, D-Money said:

As quoted earlier:

 

The importance of selling now

 

Selling Hutton this summer should be a priority because of his pending RFA status. By all indications, the soon to be 26-year-old will come at a hefty cost.

 

“Hutton is arbitration eligible this season and his agent is going to argue he has proven himself as a legitimate top four defenceman. In fact, the 22:33 minutes per game he averages puts him in the NHL’s top 40,” said colleague Jason Botchford.

 

“It means the Canucks have deployed him like a top pairing defenceman and his agent will argue that a contract in the $4 million range is a bargain for a top pair defenceman. Arbitration cases are interesting because the sides are limited in the number of stats which can be presented. The two most important are average ice time and points-per-game.

 

“Hutton’s 0.31 points per game puts him in the top 100 in the NHL and if I’m him I’m using the Mike Matheson extension as a comparable. “The Canucks signed Erik Gudbranson last year to $4 million-per-year extension and Hutton’s camp will argue his role has been bigger. They won’t be wrong.”

It's too late to "sell high" on Hutton.

Selling 'high' on Hutton would have occured in 2015/16.

At this point, he's a tweener.  Or perhaps it's better stated that it's too late, or possibly too early to "sell high" - selling him at this point is simply selling.

 

Cool article you posted but I imagine you can smell the obvious contradictions as easily as I can.  The WAR/nings run right in the face of the fluffing - the weak hero charts and attempts to simultaneously finesse 'legitimate top 4'" value out of him.   I wish Botchford were right, but won't be holding my breath on any NHL team buying it.

 

His minutes are highly misleading, his production is over-stated - Edler and Tanev were hobbled for much of the season, Gudbranson dealt, Del Zotto struggled and was dumped, Pouliot seriously stagnated/regressed - the idea that Hutton is a "legitimate top four defenseman" is borderline laughable.   7 even strength assists in those minutes - and another 7 piggy-backing on EP/Boeser et al on the powerplay - is misleading.  He was a stop gap powerplay placeholder, is entirely unlikely to ever see those kind of minutes here again, and doubtful to anywhere else, barring a serious step forward, which he has not made (and we're talking the present here).

 

I realize he's a pet favorite of a lot of folks in this market, but realistically, he's still a borderline/marginal piece.  If Edler returns, with Hughes and Juolevi being both far more significant pieces moving forward....  Hutton has been competing with Pouliot (and MDZ) the past few years to determine who bottoms out the lineup,    He's at a crossroads imo - could continue to improve - but has not 'established' himself as anything more than just another guy in the mix.  His size and skating have kept him in the lineup while he's struggled with his mental game.

 

I think folks getting their hopes up that there is some "selling high" to be done on Hutton are deluding themselves. 

I doubt anyone was willing to part with a late pick for him two seasons ago when he was apparently available, and despite a bit of a bounce back season last year, his value is still marginal.  Minutes and production are entirely relative.  I think he's probably worth more as a retained depth piece than he is on the market - and where his contract is concernd, he's worth nowhere near the kind of money you're talking.  He is still in a 'show me' stage - if he's deluded enough at this point to believe he's worth in the range of 4.5 million, he hasn't learned much in the past few years. 

Edited June 14, 2019 by oldnews

[R3aL]

If we could get in there and snag ghost and run

 

Edler-Hughes

Ghost-Tanev

Hutton-Stecher 

 

id be all over that for next season 

 

 

[D-Money]

4 hours ago, R3aL said:

If we could get in there and snag ghost and run

 

Edler-Hughes

Ghost-Tanev

Hutton-Stecher 

 

id be all over that for next season 

 

Hutton is likely going to get $4+ million in arbitration. He'll be making a lot for a 3rd pairing guy.

 

If we re-sign Edler and land another top-4 LHD, then we should probably trade Hutton.

 

Also, does Hughes play right side? Gostisbehere has a lot for Philly. So maybe that's the answer...

 

Edler - Stecher

Hutton - Ghost

Hughes - Tanev

Edited June 14, 2019 by D-Money

[mll]

13 hours ago, oldnews said:

It's too late to "sell high" on Hutton.

Selling 'high' on Hutton would have occured in 2015/16.

At this point, he's a tweener.  Or perhaps it's better stated that it's too late, or possibly too early to "sell high" - selling him at this point is simply selling.

 

Cool article you posted but I imagine you can smell the obvious contradictions as easily as I can.  The WAR/nings run right in the face of the fluffing - the weak hero charts and attempts to simultaneously finesse 'legitimate top 4'" value out of him.   I wish Botchford were right, but won't be holding my breath on any NHL team buying it.

 

His minutes are highly misleading, his production is over-stated - Edler and Tanev were hobbled for much of the season, Gudbranson dealt, Del Zotto struggled and was dumped, Pouliot seriously stagnated/regressed - the idea that Hutton is a "legitimate top four defenseman" is borderline laughable.   7 even strength assists in those minutes - and another 7 piggy-backing on EP/Boeser et al on the powerplay - is misleading.  He was a stop gap powerplay placeholder, is entirely unlikely to ever see those kind of minutes here again, and doubtful to anywhere else, barring a serious step forward, which he has not made (and we're talking the present here).

 

I realize he's a pet favorite of a lot of folks in this market, but realistically, he's still a borderline/marginal piece.  If Edler returns, with Hughes and Juolevi being both far more significant pieces moving forward....  Hutton has been competing with Pouliot (and MDZ) the past few years to determine who bottoms out the lineup,    He's at a crossroads imo - could continue to improve - but has not 'established' himself as anything more than just another guy in the mix.  His size and skating have kept him in the lineup while he's struggled with his mental game.

 

I think folks getting their hopes up that there is some "selling high" to be done on Hutton are deluding themselves. 

I doubt anyone was willing to part with a late pick for him two seasons ago when he was apparently available, and despite a bit of a bounce back season last year, his value is still marginal.  Minutes and production are entirely relative.  I think he's probably worth more as a retained depth piece than he is on the market - and where his contract is concernd, he's worth nowhere near the kind of money you're talking.  He is still in a 'show me' stage - if he's deluded enough at this point to believe he's worth in the range of 4.5 million, he hasn't learned much in the past few years. 

 

Only the arbitrator has to buy it.   As you demonstrate Hutton is not a top-4 D.  He was deployed as one and his agent can argue that in arbitration with ice time being a key argument.  Teams can't walk away from awards under ~4.4M.  

 

His arbitration rights and his excessive ice time complicate a possible trade.  If the Canucks want to retain him he could end up being overpaid if he takes the team to arbitration.  

[R3aL]

4 hours ago, D-Money said:

Hutton is likely going to get $4+ million in arbitration. He'll be making a lot for a 3rd pairing guy.

 

If we re-sign Edler and land another top-4 LHD, then we should probably trade Hutton.

 

Also, does Hughes play right side? Gostisbehere has a lot for Philly. So maybe that's the answer...

 

Edler - Stecher

Hutton - Ghost

Hughes - Tanev

Hughes has said he can play both sides. He said he just plays differently on each side.

 

that looks great too. Ghost would be a great addition 

 

but ya we will see for

hutton I don’t think he deserves that kind of money which stinks 

[SealTheDeal]

“Hutton is arbitration eligible this season and his agent is going to argue he has proven himself as a legitimate top four defenceman. In fact, the 22:33 minutes per game he averages puts him in the NHL’s top 40,” said colleague Jason Botchford.

 

“It means the Canucks have deployed him like a top pairing defenceman and his agent will argue that a contract in the $4 million range is a bargain for a top pair defenceman. Arbitration cases are interesting because the sides are limited in the number of stats which can be presented. The two most important are average ice time and points-per-game.

 

“Hutton’s 0.31 points per game puts him in the top 100 in the NHL and if I’m him I’m using the Mike Matheson extension as a comparable. “The Canucks signed Erik Gudbranson last year to $4 million-per-year extension and Hutton’s camp will argue his role has been bigger. They won’t be wrong.”

 

There is some selective statistic picking here. Hutton's PPG last season was 0.29, good for 466th in the league. Among defencemen he's roughly 112th. Given that there are only 186 "top-six" defence in the league at any given time (and perhaps another 20 or so included with an inflated PPG due to few games played), that's not great.

 

His avg TOI was 22:21, good for 49th. Presuming Edler is back and the canucks acquire another D through free agency or a trade, do you think that is going up or down? That would be the extreme high of his deployment, out of necessity on a talent-deprived injury ridden team. But add Hughes and a Zaitsev or Collins to the roster and his minutes go down, not up.

 

After that should we look at some other stats? His whopping 8 PPP ? His -23? His advanced stats?

 

Gudbranson didn't live up to his contract and got moved as a result. If that's the best Hutton's agent can come up with, that's not much.

 

His contract projection from Evolving Hockey projects him at a two year 2.5M contract. That makes sense. If he gets $4 from an arbiter I'd let him walk if I had other options. If not, I eat it for a year as a place-holder until Joulevi and Hughes are established then let him walk or sign him to a reasonable contract.

 

 

Edited June 14, 2019 by SealTheDeal

[D-Money]

18 minutes ago, SealTheDeal said:

“Hutton is arbitration eligible this season and his agent is going to argue he has proven himself as a legitimate top four defenceman. In fact, the 22:33 minutes per game he averages puts him in the NHL’s top 40,” said colleague Jason Botchford.

 

“It means the Canucks have deployed him like a top pairing defenceman and his agent will argue that a contract in the $4 million range is a bargain for a top pair defenceman. Arbitration cases are interesting because the sides are limited in the number of stats which can be presented. The two most important are average ice time and points-per-game.

 

“Hutton’s 0.31 points per game puts him in the top 100 in the NHL and if I’m him I’m using the Mike Matheson extension as a comparable. “The Canucks signed Erik Gudbranson last year to $4 million-per-year extension and Hutton’s camp will argue his role has been bigger. They won’t be wrong.”

 

There is some selective statistic picking here. Hutton's PPG last season was 0.29, good for 466th in the league. Among defencemen he's roughly 112th. Given that there are only 186 "top-six" defence in the league at any given time (and perhaps another 20 or so included with an inflated PPG due to few games played).

 

His avg TOI was 22:21, good for 49th. Presuming Edler is back and the canucks acquire another D through free agency or a trade, do you think that is going up or down? That would be the extreme high of his deployment, out of necessity on a talent-deprived injury ridden team. But add Hughes and a Zaitsev or Collins to the roster and his minutes go down, not up.

 

After that should we look at some other stats? His whopping 8 PPP ? His -23? His advanced stats?

 

Gudbranson didn't live up to his contract and got moved as a result. If that's the best Hutton's agent can come up with, that's not much.

 

His contract projection from Evolving Hockey projects him at a two year 2.5M contract. That makes sense. If he gets $4 from an arbiter I'd let him walk if I had other options. If not, I eat it for a year as a place-holder until Joulevi and Hughes are established then let him walk or sign him to a reasonable contract.

His numbers this past season are better than Cody Ceci's were the previous year, and he got a 1-year, $4.3M deal.

 

If we re-sign Edler and/or add another quality LHD by trade/FA, I'm content to let Hutton walk. But if Edler walks and another top-4 LHD doesn't come, we'll need Hutton. So even if he gets $4M+, in the latter instance I'd take it, then hope to flip him by the deadline if/when Juolevi is ready for a regular shift.