Conservative Party of Canada Holds Annual Convention

[BPA]

5 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Many religions believe acts of homosexuality is wrong and considered a sin.   If someone practicing said religion is seeking help in regards to that sin, who am i, who are you, to take away that help.  Taking away that option is forcing your beliefs on another.  Regardless of my opinion, it's not my role, nor the govt's to tell them what they need to believe. 

 

 

 

I normally don't agree with you but on this stance, I do. 

 

A choice. Not something that is mandatory or forced upon.  Just like abortion.  It's a choice.  And if there is something to help someone with this, then by all means it should be made available.  Much like there is a host of gene therapy and other stuff to help a man become a women and vice versa.

 

[VanIsleNuckFan]

2 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Instead, why not focus on making Canada a more tolerant, inclusive country so fewer people feel the need to attempt to repress who they are.

 

My personal belief is that it doesn't work and is likely to cause a lot of grief for both the people who get the "treatment", as well as their future partners.

 

I would, however, be willing to compromise or voluntary conversion therapy recipients had to go through hoops similar to the ones set up for those seeking a sex change.

There should be hoops before one decides to permanently disfigure their sex organs.

 

theres a massive issue with undiagnosed and dismissal of psychological disorder in this country. Just look at the streets downtown. I am all for do what makes you feel good but before a sex change is ok'd there should be a waiting period. This is purely from the standpoint of what's good for that individual - they shouldn't just hand them out to everyone who wants one especially as there is a social trend towards changing ones gender these days. A mistake here could ruin someone's life, just the same as if they really are mis gendered and a sex change would actually be good for the individual (ie ruin their life by not getting one). Overall mental health should be the focus whatever the outcome.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

1 minute ago, King Heffy said:

Instead, why not focus on making Canada a more tolerant, inclusive country so fewer people feel the need to attempt to repress who they are.

 

Great that is a good idea and i'm not against that but that's a different issue.  Tolerances goes both ways.  It can't be, i'm tolerant as long as everyone believes exactly what I believe.  

 

1 minute ago, King Heffy said:

My personal belief is that it doesn't work and is likely to cause a lot of grief for both the people who get the "treatment", as well as their future partners.

I don't think it does work either but I don't really have any background in that area.   I just feel as long as the person is willing, over the age of 18 and is in full control of their decision, they let them make that choice.  

 

I'm not in the role of telling people what they can and can't do.  

 

1 minute ago, King Heffy said:

I would, however, be willing to compromise or voluntary conversion therapy recipients had to go through hoops similar to the ones set up for those seeking a sex change.

Yeah I don't see any issues with that, especially to make sure people are in their right state of mind before making that decision.

[King Heffy]

Just now, VanIsleNuckFan said:

There should be hoops before one decides to permanently disfigure their sex organs.

 

theres a massive issue with undiagnosed and dismissal of psychological disorder in this country. Just look at the streets downtown. I am all for do what makes you feel good but before a sex change is ok'd there should be a waiting period. This is purely from the standpoint of what's good for that individual - they shouldn't just hand them out to everyone who wants one especially as there is a social trend towards changing ones gender these days. A mistake here could ruin someone's life, just the same as if they really are mis gendered and a sex change would actually be good for the individual (ie ruin their life by not getting one). Overall mental health should be the focus whatever the outcome.

I agree.  I also think there should be hoops to jump through in order to rewire the brain to change sexual orientation.  I think both procedures should be a last resort and the result of an informed and conscious choice.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

Just now, King Heffy said:

I agree.  I also think there should be hoops to jump through in order to rewire the brain to change sexual orientation.  I think both procedures should be a last resort and the result of an informed and conscious choice.

Being over 18 is a big thing for me on both of these issues.  None of this BS parent consent.  

[BPA]

2 minutes ago, VanIsleNuckFan said:

There should be hoops before one decides to permanently disfigure their sex organs.

 

theres a massive issue with undiagnosed and dismissal of psychological disorder in this country. Just look at the streets downtown. I am all for do what makes you feel good but before a sex change is ok'd there should be a waiting period. This is purely from the standpoint of what's good for that individual - they shouldn't just hand them out to everyone who wants one especially as there is a social trend towards changing ones gender these days. A mistake here could ruin someone's life, just the same as if they really are mis gendered and a sex change would actually be good for the individual (ie ruin their life by not getting one). Overall mental health should be the focus whatever the outcome.

Yeah.

 

Mental issues are definitely a big thing.  In years past, it was to "quietly accept it" or "tough it out" or "be a man".  Only recently in the past few years, has mental issues come to the forefront.  That it's OK to talk about it. 

 

BC government should really bring back mental hospitals.  Therapy may help those in need and prevent even bigger problems in society. 

[VanIsleNuckFan]

1 minute ago, King Heffy said:

I agree.  I also think there should be hoops to jump through in order to rewire the brain to change sexual orientation.  I think both procedures should be a last resort and the result of an informed and conscious choice.

I don't understand what you mean by re wire the brain to "change" sexual orientation - could you expand on this as it seems to me you mean you are saying one can voluntarily change someone's sexual orientation. I was under the impression that's not a choice one can make. Can't really pick what turns you on. Up it goes or down it goes, not much rhyme or reason to that!

[VanIsleNuckFan]

2 minutes ago, BPA said:

Yeah.

 

Mental issues are definitely a big thing.  In years past, it was to "quietly accept it" or "tough it out" or "be a man".  Only recently in the past few years, has mental issues come to the forefront.  That it's OK to talk about it. 

 

BC government should really bring back mental hospitals.  Therapy may help those in need and prevent even bigger problems in society. 

I wrote our NdumP leader a letter recently stating exactly this. Like anything comes of it and no I did not antagonize him at all, was a very concise letter.

[King Heffy]

Just now, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Being over 18 is a big thing for me on both of these issues.  None of this BS parent consent.  

Agreed.  Undergoing this kind of thing with all the hormones associated with puberty is an unnecessary risk.

 

This is precisely what we need more of, the left and right working together to find solutions that both sides consider reasonable.  Pulling the cons further to the right is going to make things a lot closer to the polarization we see in the US.

[King Heffy]

1 minute ago, VanIsleNuckFan said:

I don't understand what you mean by re wire the brain to "change" sexual orientation - could you expand on this as it seems to me you mean you are saying one can voluntarily change someone's sexual orientation. I was under the impression that's not a choice one can make. Can't really pick what turns you on. Up it goes or down it goes, not much rhyme or reason to that!

In the original post you replied to, I stated I dont think it works.

[BPA]

1 minute ago, VanIsleNuckFan said:

I wrote our NdumP leader a letter recently stating exactly this. Like anything comes of it and no I did not antagonize him at all, was a very concise letter.

I get that running a mental hospital is a big loss (ie. no revenue) but probably a good portion of the DTES should be in a mental hospital getting the help they need to turn their lives around.  Instead, we kicked them to the curb/streets leaving them to fend for themselves.

[BoKnows]

1 minute ago, King Heffy said:

In the original post you replied to, I stated I dont think it works.

I don't understand what you meant by "rewiring" the brain, or see why anyone would do that.

[King Heffy]

Just now, BoKnows said:

I don't understand what you meant by "rewiring" the brain, or see why anyone would do that.

I don't understand the conversion therapy either as I'm neither gay nor a medical professional.  I'm attempting to understand the other side's position.

[thedestroyerofworlds]

I find it amusing that the snake oil that is conversion therapy is even being defended, but here we are.

Whether they choose to or not, conversion therapy is garbage and shouldn't be promoted by anyone, let alone significant members of a political party.  

 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5040471/

The Growing Regulation of Conversion Therapy

Reviews of the peer-reviewed literature from multiple professional organizations, including the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, and the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatrists, have found no evidence that conversion therapy treatments result in changes in sexual orientation.^23,24,25 There is evidence, however, suggesting these treatments are harmful.^26,27,28,29

 

Major mental health organizations have rejected conversion therapy as a treatment modality given that there is no rigorous scientific evidence to support the claim that sexual orientation can be changed and there is evidence that these treatments can cause harm to patients.

 

 

 

 

[Chris12345]

5 minutes ago, BPA said:

I get that running a mental hospital is a big loss (ie. no revenue) but probably a good portion of the DTES should be in a mental hospital getting the help they need to turn their lives around.  Instead, we kicked them to the curb/streets leaving them to fend for themselves.

I have often wondered if there would be cost savings if there were more mental hospitals that could help balance the math.

 

 

[JM_]

39 minutes ago, stawns said:

I've said many times the only thing the social conservative movement has done is relegate the Conservative party to a regional protest party, same as the Bloc.

some religions believe that female circumcision is a good idea too. Some young women even go into it willingly. Doesn't mean its a good idea. Most psychologists believe that conversion therapy is very damaging. If some people want that "choice" then they will find a way to go get it somewhere, but that doesn't mean its the right thing to do as a society and legitimize the option. 

 

You can find a religious reason for just about anything. Thats why it shouldn't be what guides our political decisions. 

[JM_]

6 minutes ago, thedestroyerofworlds said:

I find it amusing that the snake oil that is conversion therapy is even being defended, but here we are.

Whether they choose to or not, conversion therapy is garbage and shouldn't be promoted by anyone, let alone significant members of a political party.  

 

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5040471/

The Growing Regulation of Conversion Therapy

Reviews of the peer-reviewed literature from multiple professional organizations, including the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, and the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatrists, have found no evidence that conversion therapy treatments result in changes in sexual orientation.^23,24,25 There is evidence, however, suggesting these treatments are harmful.^26,27,28,29

 

Major mental health organizations have rejected conversion therapy as a treatment modality given that there is no rigorous scientific evidence to support the claim that sexual orientation can be changed and there is evidence that these treatments can cause harm to patients.

 

 

 

 

I wonder if the social cons realize if conversions therapy works one way, then its probably a two way street. Could make bible camp super interesting. 

[BoKnows]

1 minute ago, King Heffy said:

I don't understand the conversion therapy either as I'm neither gay nor a medical professional.  I'm attempting to understand the other side's position.

Okay.  I don't think there's a real argument for being pro conversion therapy.

 

[JM_]

29 minutes ago, BPA said:

 

I normally don't agree with you but on this stance, I do. 

 

A choice. Not something that is mandatory or forced upon.  Just like abortion.  It's a choice.  And if there is something to help someone with this, then by all means it should be made available.  Much like there is a host of gene therapy and other stuff to help a man become a women and vice versa.

 

that assumes that being gay is a choice, when all the evidence is to the contrary. Its looked at as a harmful practice for a reason.

 

 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

46 minutes ago, stawns said:

I've said many times the only thing the social conservative movement has done is relegate the Conservative party to a regional protest party, same as the Bloc.

Well for one, O'toole has openly said he's against conversion therapy.

 

Quote

On Monday, Radio Canada reported that O’Toole had told social conservatives in Quebec that he had concerns with Liberal proposals to ban “conversion therapy,” a controversial practice that attempts to change the sexual orientation or gender identity of LGBTQ people.

 

O’Toole’s campaign clarified Monday evening that he “unequivocally” opposes conversion therapy, but has concerns about how the Liberal government’s proposal was drafted.

 

“Let me be unequivocal, conversion therapies have no place in Canada and should be abolished. Final point,” O’Toole wrote in a statement. “LGBTQ people are welcome in the big conservative family and I am committed to fighting this unacceptable and hurtful practice. I will not compromise on this.”

 

And in regards to abortion

Quote

Scheer also faced criticism for not providing a clear answer on where he stood when it came to same-sex marriage and for being personally anti-abortion, despite his pledge not to reopen the abortion debate as a lawmaker.

 

When asked about his own stance on those issues, O’Toole cast it as a matter of “rights.”

 

“I stand up for all rights,” he said, adding that he doesn’t want to remove any rights already granted by the courts.

“That’s where our party needs to go,” O’Toole said. “Not removing rights from Canadians.”

https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/2020/06/16/erin-otoole-courts-social-conservatives-as-conservative-leadership-debates-draw-near.html