The lack of push back is concerning

[Dr. Crossbar]

The focus has mainly been on speed and skill, plus development, for the past few years. That's all going in the right direction. But we need more fearless physicality with skill, guys that can punish with the body while also producing. Guys with both skill AND physicality.

 

We just don't have a hard hitting team or enough guys that aren't afraid to take risks physically. We need a punishing mindset with our skill and physical play. We also need more of that "no quit" grit attitude like Miller has. This all goes into a greater level of pushback. 

 

It's a balancing act, though, to manage the consequences of playing with a greater level of pushback - penalties and guys being off the ice or out of the lineup. This is where I see our team more fearful of the consequences of pushing back.

 

I'd love to see us go after Dillon from SJ to get tougher on D. We need guys that can paste the offensive opposition into the boards on the rush or corners. Also, the one guy from NJ I'd love to see JB go after is Blake Coleman. He's a beast in shots and hits plus he has that gritty no quit. To me he's a Miller-lite. If we could somehow pry Coleman away from the Devils, imo, that's more of what we need. Pushback built into their style of play. Ferland would fill that void but we just don't know where he stands yet. 

 

 

[Got the Babych]

Cautiously optimistic on this frustrating aspect of our team. A lot more physicality the last few games. Good job motivating OP! 

[Junkyard Dog]

Mac should stay with the team. He is not overly physical but he's been better than most of our bottom 6 in that regard.

 

Still need a few guys that have some balls and love to throw the body consistently. Also someone that people will answer too if they try anything. Hopefully Ferland can come back and be that but his health might deter him from being our policeman. Tryamkin could add physicality to our D if he comes back and is good enough in the NHL to play.

 

Benn has been better. Roussel hasn't been that and he should be. Sutter will probably be gone in the off-season because of cap and should be replaced with someone who plays that way. Schaller should be let go. Motte plays with a lot of heart and bite and should be re-signed since he is a defensive guy with some energy.

 

If things go right with Ferland and Tryamkin then we would only need a couple more pieces in our bottom 6. Having that sort of bite and push back will trickle upwards toward our top 6 forwards and top 4 D creating that sort of mindset and making us a harder team to play against. They don't call them spark plugs/energy guys for nothing, it motivates players.

 

[aqua59]

On 2/8/2020 at 9:43 PM, Junkyard Dog said:

As games get tougher and more physical we seem to almost cave in under the pressure. Our stars getting pushed around without any consequence? There are no positives to that, it just lets teams know they have a good chance to win if they up their physicality. What kind of message does it send down the lineup? It seems like it's been this way  for a while. ever since the Matheson hit, even before, we've seen nobody stand up for our stars. Games around this time of the season are gonna get tougher and something has to change otherwise our chances of making the playoffs and succeeding in them will not be great.

 

You have to be able to show that you can't be pushed around so easily and be able to at least match teams when it comes to the physical side of the game. When your star his hurt you've got to stand up for him and play like your pissed off. Whether that be in a fight or a hit you gotta do something because doing nothing just ain't gonna cut it.

The lack of push back has become rather obvious once again. Sure not really  having Ferland in the line might have changed things but they where they are now. The team has become flat. I watched Greens post game interview and it was flat too. Minimal with an irritated edge. 

 

This kind of thing is a slow slide. 

 

Our open net specialist Loui Eriksson has once again become a non existent factor  doing Bo Hovart no favors.  That's one of your so called top lines MIA.

 

That's not a 4th line that can be managed with minimal minutes. Where's all this depth from with in? Is this about Greens confidence in what he has to work with?

 

Troy Stecher on the back end is becoming less a factor and more a hindrance with his lack of size and poor play making of late.  Having two Stecher and Hughes sized players on the back end isn't good enough. Hughs stays Stecher goes. 

 

The back end in itself is not tough enough. Jamie Benn has to play more to be effective yet i think addressing the toughness on the back end by moving Stecher at the deadline should help big time if the they can get the right player. Who knows? 

 

This team just doesn't have enough jump or spark of late.

 

 

 

 

[PhillipBlunt]

The issue with this team goes a little deeper than just the fact that they lack some real tough players. 
 

The leadership group in this team is not getting it done. It’s pretty obvious. While Pettersson is an amazing player, he shouldn’t be second on the team in hits since the ASG. It was great to see Myers show up for Pettersson, even though he took what should have resulted in a game misconduct for Manson. 
 

For a team that is bent on making the playoffs, there is far too much passivity in the team’s overall approach, which, correct me if I’m wrong, is dictated by those who lead the team. As long as this systemic problem exists, so will the lack of consistency in the team. 

[Angry Goose]

It's funny how being a really gritty team has been an issue for as long as I can remember.  But finding the right guys seems easier said than done.  MacEwan is looking like a future player developed from within.  Miller.   I was so excited for Ferland when the Canucks got him but, aside from the obvious injury he didn't look like the same player at all when he broke into the league.  Motte and Beagle both play a gritty game.  The quest continues....

Edited February 17, 2020 by SILLY GOOSE

[EdgarM]

On ‎2‎/‎8‎/‎2020 at 9:55 PM, Setyoureyesontheprize said:

Markstrom shows more push back then the So called “tough” players on this team. 
 

 

As was Ryan Miller before him.

[J.I.A.H.N]

On 2/9/2020 at 11:17 AM, debluvscanucks said:

No...because I don't feel they're the issue and the changes that need to be made are guys who are much more disposable.  Except I guess the flipside is others won't want them either.

 

I'd rather we DO focus on giving guys like Mac, Bailey, etc. a shot. Mac's already proven he's willing to go..and that's exactly what we need.

Well, there are 3 different types of response......

 

#1. comes immediately after a hit/cheap shot and is done with the players on the ice at the time of the incident

 

#2. comes as a more measured response a shift or shifts later

 

#3. is a team philosophy, and is one which is not incident driven, but starts at the beginning of the game, and ends at the end of the game

 

IMO, the response we need is #1, where the players on the ice, know it will come immediately after screwing up...…..

 

Number 3, is something we should be every game, IMO, as should number 2...…………….

 

What I see, is a half in approach, which is not entirely convincing...……...to me!

[aqua59]

20 hours ago, aqua59 said:

The lack of push back has become rather obvious once again. Sure not really  having Ferland in the line might have changed things but they where they are now. The team has become flat. I watched Greens post game interview and it was flat too. Minimal with an irritated edge. 

 

This kind of thing is a slow slide. 

 

Our open net specialist Loui Eriksson has once again become a non existent factor  doing Bo Hovart no favors.  That's one of your so called top lines MIA.

 

That's not a 4th line that can be managed with minimal minutes. Where's all this depth from with in? Is this about Greens confidence in what he has to work with?

 

Troy Stecher on the back end is becoming less a factor and more a hindrance with his lack of size and poor play making of late.  Having two Stecher and Hughes sized players on the back end isn't good enough. Hughs stays Stecher goes. 

 

The back end in itself is not tough enough. Jamie Benn has to play more to be effective yet i think addressing the toughness on the back end by moving Stecher at the deadline should help big time if the they can get the right player. Who knows? 

 

This team just doesn't have enough jump or spark of late.

 

 

 

 

One of my concerns has been addressed in Tyler Toffoli moving Eriksson off that top line. Yet Eriksson remains in the mix. Once he's moved to the press box they will be deep enough up front. 

[-DLC-]

On 2/10/2020 at 6:24 PM, MoldyTaco said:

every single pp goal we score is by fluke it seems. the only reason why have so many goals is because we have so many chances. its the most infuriating thing about this team, watching how lazy slow and unmotivated they are on the powerplay. how the hell can you "make them pay" on the power play when you dont even put 5% more effort in.  

I don't feel it's about being "lazy" or lack of effort....I think the stationary play is something they've been taught.   Hey...it worked when our team had unknowns but not anymore...the pk knows what to expect.  

 

Fluke goals do happen on pp's....as guys plant themselves in front of the net (or are supposed to) and position themselves for tip in's, it's not a fluke as much as it's intentional.   We want and should encourage greasy goals ("flukes").

 

We need to be more mobile...quick passes are great, but also get picked off.  No point in having an extra attacker if you're all planted in place and easy to block out.  Movement forces the short handed team to scramble and expose openings where that extra guy can slide into and be unobstructed.  

 

It's not even rocket appliances...I could help direct this thing.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, debluvscanucks said:

I don't feel it's about being "lazy" or lack of effort....I think the stationary play is something they've been taught.   Hey...it worked when our team had unknowns but not anymore...the pk knows what to expect.  

 

Fluke goals do happen on pp's....as guys position themselves for tip in's, it's not a fluke as much as it's intentional.

 

We need to be more mobile...quick passes are great, but also get picked off.  No point in having an extra attacker if you're all planted in place and easy to block out.  Movement forces the short handed team to scramble and expose openings where that extra guy can slide into and be unobstructed.  

 

It's not even rocket appliances...I could help direct this thing.

Coaching?

imo our systems are not the best for our players to succeed all over the ice, and not just the PP.  

[-DLC-]

6 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Coaching?

imo our systems are not the best for our players to succeed all over the ice, and not just the PP.  

But Alf that's only considering one aspect of coaching.

 

How about how the players feel?  They seem to respond well to coaching staff and there aren't any clear resentments or bad attitudes.  It's still a work in progress.

 

They're being given room to build their confidence and there will be glaring mistakes at times...but the message is that it's ok..."learn from them".  Other more "set" coaches like to yell, berate, etc. if you make mistakes.  Throw teams under the bus.  

 

Be careful what you wish for....it's what the team wants, not what we want.  Although I do feel the power play is stale and outdated ... fresh perspective there would likely help.

 

How about Marky?  He's thriving under this coaching staff...

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

But Alf that's only considering one aspect of coaching.

 

How about how the players feel?  They seem to respond well to coaching staff and there aren't any clear resentments or bad attitudes.  It's still a work in progress.

 

They're being given room to build their confidence and there will be glaring mistakes at times...but the message is that it's ok..."learn from them".  Other more "set" coaches like to yell, berate, etc. if you make mistakes.  Throw teams under the bus.  

 

Be careful what you wish for....it's what the team wants, not what we want.  Although I do feel the power play is stale and outdated ... fresh perspective there would likely help.

It’s all about performance.  If we continue to struggle like over the last while, I see a coaching change happening, regardless of how the players like Green.  

[-DLC-]

26 minutes ago, Alflives said:

It’s all about performance.  If we continue to struggle like over the last while, I see a coaching change happening, regardless of how the players like Green.  

It's rare that teams fire on all cylinders...we've performed, as a whole, well enough to get us in the race.  Yes, much of that was goaltending but the team also has had success despite the recent (and, at times, glaring) issues.  And Marky's felt good enough to go in there with confidence despite it all....seems he, at least, is quite happy.  Not sure you want to tinker with that.

 

I don't think you hit the panic button when there are things not quite working but you're still in contention.  We wanted more physicality and are seeing that...let the team have room to grow/adjust?  It's a season of "all over the map" but there definitely are some solid building blocks.  I think fans get fixated on an idea and it's tunnel vision until it happens.  

 

I'm scared of coaching changes.  I remember Keenan.  Even Torts (though I love him)...blocking shots all over the place.

 

A coaching "change" doesn't always guarantee an upgrade.

 

Anyhow, off to work now...cheers Alf.  A good discussion and my opinion is only that.  

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, debluvscanucks said:

It's rare that teams fire on all cylinders...we've performed, as a whole, well enough to get us in the race.  Yes, much of that was goaltending but the team also has had success despite the recent (and, at times, glaring) issues.  And Marky's felt good enough to go in there with confidence despite it all....seems he, at least, is quite happy.  Not sure you want to tinker with that.

 

I don't think you hit the panic button when there aren't things working but you're still in contention.  We wanted more physicality and are seeing that...let the team have room to grow/adjust?  It's a season of "all over the map" but there definitely are some solid building blocks.  I think fans get fixated on an idea and it's tunnel vision until it happens.  

 

I'm scared of coaching changes.  I remember Keenan.  Even Torts (though I love him)...blocking shots all over the place.

 

A coaching "change" doesn't always guarantee an upgrade.

All true, but what’s JB’s next move if the team continues their current slide?  

[alt kilgore]

3 hours ago, debluvscanucks said:

I don't feel it's about being "lazy" or lack of effort....I think the stationary play is something they've been taught.   Hey...it worked when our team had unknowns but not anymore...the pk knows what to expect.  

 

Fluke goals do happen on pp's....as guys plant themselves in front of the net (or are supposed to) and position themselves for tip in's, it's not a fluke as much as it's intentional.   We want and should encourage greasy goals ("flukes").

 

We need to be more mobile...quick passes are great, but also get picked off.  No point in having an extra attacker if you're all planted in place and easy to block out.  Movement forces the short handed team to scramble and expose openings where that extra guy can slide into and be unobstructed.  

 

It's not even rocket appliances...I could help direct this thing.

 

This is what's frustrating to watch. The stationary play on the PP.  I know its easy to criticize from a laymans viewpoint, but too many times its seems like it gets bogged down with passing around the perimeter. Each time the receiving player stops the puck and holds it, holds it,....holds it.....lane clogs up. Then passes...holds holds holds....passes.  And finally its usually Hughes that fires from the blue line hoping for a tip or rebound.  Sometimes it works, but there doesn't seem to be much more creativity or movement.  Seeing less of the Petey one-timer.  Partly due to teams concentrating on him more now.

 

But that's one of the reasons I like hockey more than other other sports to watch. The unpredictability, the creativity.  They are more dangerous on the rush on PP,  precisely because its a play that is more unpredictable, fast developing.  I'd like to see more one timers, heading to the net aggressively.  Maybe there's TOO much structure.  Trust talented players like Petey, Hughes, Miller to read the ice and put more trust in their natural hockey sense.