[Trade] Kings trade Tyler Toffoli to Canucks for Tim Schaller, Tyler Madden, 2020 2nd-round pick, conditional 2022 4th-round pick

[Ballisticsports.]

4 hours ago, Lazurus said:

Sorry, it is the modern world, the wifey doesn't just pack up her career and leave if it can be helped.

Better taxes in the states and lower cost of living in California.

Cali teams will not take the same amount of time to rebuild as Vancouver has, remember Vancouver has only been rebuilding for two seasons according to what Linden and Benning have said, With the amount of picks and prospects they are picking up they will get done in 3 years, the league average and before all their star players quit hockey.

 

Something about having a team filled with guys in the 30's? in 3 Toffoli - 32, Markstrom - 35, Tanev - 33, at that it will be Tanev's last chance for a big pay day so he will want a longer term contract. His shut down play will attract attention from teams with way more money or cap space than Vancouver can now afford, the same with Markstrom, for the Canucks to commit to Markstrom stops the future and could put the Canucks on the road to middle of the road team until they blow it up again.

 

As far as some grand plan of Benning's, wasn't this supposed to be a build the properly, through the draft and to have patience?

 

Suddenly he is trading even more picks of higher quality for rentals and making his own team's expiring contracts rentals as well, because none of them is obligated to re-sign here for a discount to get under the cap or should he offer even more clause contracts to 30 something players, maybe take the number up to 10 or 12 clause contracts?

 

Fans here and on the media just love to rip other teams, fine it is a Vancouver forum after all, but it is so unreal that many of the same criticisms are applicable here?

I AM NOT A FAN OF TORONTO BUT the crap they are taking for being better than the Canucks, younger and their team in better cap shape next year with a lot fewer clause contracts to hamper them and most importantly the division they play in that has two of the best team in the league, one of which rebuilt in 2 years, Boston and Tampa who cratered twice to pick up top 5 picks. Not to mention that there is Washington and the Penquins to get past as well, altogether those team have played and won 6 of the last 7 cups. Just saying they are younger and in a harder division and conference, so why does this team seem to be getting the free rides?

 

The Toffoli trade in and of itself is a good trade, maybe not the one this team needed though, a defense man, Dillion or Martinez would have made a lot more sense, the shots against have to be reduced. But even though the bottom fell out of the division for what ever reason, maybe the depth of this draft to get very high quality players deep or just following a plan, it is a division that the worst wild card team in the east might be the best team in this division.

 

And now there is media talk about trading Raffety, Woo, Tryamkin, Lockwod for a depth defense man? Something is wrong there, why move one of those guys without just promoting them first, Tanev did great when called up as a rookie in the playoffs and he didn't have a lot of playoff experience with any team he had played on before.

 

Toffoli trade, okay, it is a good deal if somehow he re-signed, but not as a rental, not for that much unless it is to polish off a contender, any more deals like this, aiming at outscoring in the playoffs rather than shutting down and playing tighter in the playoffs is not a very good plan. No shoot outs in the playoffs, no 3 on 3's, some games. the way this team currently plays, Markstrom may have to stop 80 or 90 shots if it went to triple over time or more.

 

I agree with your points as well

We are still paying for a goalie who hasn't played in years for us, and will still pay for years to come

I agree on Markstrom, I think he would like to stay too, but he will need to be paid and will not want a 3yr contract at his age (or be playing 50/50 )

I sure hope they don't package unproven assets and draft picks to take away our high end mistake contracts to get cap space

No one here wants to see the Canucks handcuffed by cap to never reach elite status again and only be better than what we were

When you don't have the cap space to sign the players you want, your only option to keep them is to offer them longer term than other teams will (something we are tired of in this market)

[iceman64]

On 2/18/2020 at 12:32 AM, N4ZZY said:

damn, that'd be tough. team is without a 1st, or 2nd now (Toffoli), and if we give away a 3rd, we wouldn't be choosing until the 4th round, or do we not have that one either? 

 

Dude.. at this point we don't need to keep stocking the cupboard as much as we used to, and, now we need to get our current propects into the line up and get experience and that will happen. We're no longer the Canucks of the old days with an near empty farm.. 

 JT and Tofolli, 2 big pieces we desperately needed are in place, we're working on D next and have Rafferty, Woo, Train, Ollie, in the wings to help there so I wouldn't be worrying about more picks, we need to develop what we have a let it pan out.. 

 We're going to have a reallyyyyy good team soon.. 

[iceman64]

10 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said:

I agree with your points as well

We are still paying for a goalie who hasn't played in years for us, and will still pay for years to come

I agree on Markstrom, I think he would like to stay too, but he will need to be paid and will not want a 3yr contract at his age (or be playing 50/50 )

I sure hope they don't package unproven assets and draft picks to take away our high end mistake contracts to get cap space

No one here wants to see the Canucks handcuffed by cap to never reach elite status again and only be better than what we were

When you don't have the cap space to sign the players you want, your only option to keep them is to offer them longer term than other teams will (something we are tired of in this market)

I wouldn't worry about it, I can see TT wanting out and to stay out of LA, there's not much chance for them in the near future as there is with us.

 Lou's cap will be off the books in 2 seasons and we need that time anyway to get our guys with more playing time together and that will be done around that time too.. 

Bo is there and has some time under his belt, Boes and Petey could use work on their complete game and it's happening, AG same, Hughes same, so we're ok but if the TV deal goes through and the cap goes up by 5-10 mil and maybe more, both LE and Lou's cap space won't matter then and will have the big bonus when their off the books in 2 years so not that big of a deal.. we'll be fine

[Deemusalami]

I feel like too many people are overreacting on Tyler Madden. It’s like that bald YouTube guy who said “well I like Tyler Madden!” when I can guarantee that guy has not watched one game of his. Yeah you can look at stats on hockeydb but Reid Boucher is ripping up the AHL and he can’t even crack the Canucks. Calm down and it’s a trade we will have to look back at whenever Madden is ready. If he’s ever.  

[VegasCanuck]

Pretty happy with what I saw from Toffoli last night. He was effective for us, and will only get better as he learns how to read Pettersson and Miller.

 

Gotta say, if there was an opportunity this summer to resign Toffoli for something around 5.5 - 6 million, and move Boeser for another really high end ELC prospect, if the deal was right, I wouldn't hate the idea, based on concern about Boeser's long-term durability. He's lost a LOT of games across 3 seasons.

[Ballisticsports.]

17 hours ago, stawns said:

Did you miss the part where Boes, Leivo are gone for the regular season at lesson and Ferland is done for the year?  JB had no choice, he had to make a move.

These forums are for us to entertain and share ideas on a subject

I would guess you are 100 % ok  with dealing picks and prospects each time an injury occurs?

What if EP and/or Hughes get hurt tomorrow?

How much of the future are you willing to give up to save the season?

 

Madden may not have had a spot here, but if you are not chasing replacing injuries, he could have been traded for a promising D help, is my way of thinking

 

TT won a cup 6 years ago at 21? (Bring up vets or other 20+ yr olds and let them excel at a young age like TT did) Mac got 12 games this year at 23?

We have good drafting and TT was a 2nd rounder from another team, so 2nd could be real good for us to keep if you believe in our drafting (forgetting the tradeable asset we also gave up in Madden, who is another Hobey Baker candidate)

[stawns]

1 minute ago, ba;;isticsports said:

These forums are for us to entertain and share ideas on a subject

I would guess you are 100 % ok  with dealing picks and prospects each time an injury occurs?

What if EP and/or Hughes get hurt tomorrow?

How much of the future are you willing to give up to save the season?

 

Madden may not have had a spot here, but if you are not chasing replacing injuries, he could have been traded for a promising D help, is my way of thinking

 

TT won a cup 6 years ago at 21? (Bring up vets or other 20+ yr olds and let them excel at a young age like TT did) Mac got 12 games this year at 23?

We have good drafting and TT was a 2nd rounder from another team, so 2nd could be real good for us to keep if you believe in our drafting (forgetting the tradeable asset we also gave up in Madden, who is another Hobey Baker candidate)

so you would have pulled the [plug on the season?  How do you think Petey, Bo, Miller etc etc would have reacted to that?  Would they be happy that the work they put in for 59 games was all for nothing?

 

you also don't know that TT is a rental.........JB was very clear they will look into finding a way to keep him if he wants to be here.

[stawns]

1 hour ago, VegasCanuck said:

Pretty happy with what I saw from Toffoli last night. He was effective for us, and will only get better as he learns how to read Pettersson and Miller.

 

Gotta say, if there was an opportunity this summer to resign Toffoli for something around 5.5 - 6 million, and move Boeser for another really high end ELC prospect, if the deal was right, I wouldn't hate the idea, based on concern about Boeser's long-term durability. He's lost a LOT of games across 3 seasons.

[Ballisticsports.]

31 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said:

These forums are for us to entertain and share ideas on a subject

I would guess you are 100 % ok  with dealing picks and prospects each time an injury occurs?

What if EP and/or Hughes get hurt tomorrow?

How much of the future are you willing to give up to save the season?

 

Madden may not have had a spot here, but if you are not chasing replacing injuries, he could have been traded for a promising D help, is my way of thinking

 

TT won a cup 6 years ago at 21? (Bring up vets or other 20+ yr olds and let them excel at a young age like TT did) Mac got 12 games this year at 23?

We have good drafting and TT was a 2nd rounder from another team, so 2nd could be real good for us to keep if you believe in our drafting (forgetting the tradeable asset we also gave up in Madden, who is another Hobey Baker candidate)

 

28 minutes ago, stawns said:

so you would have pulled the [plug on the season?  How do you think Petey, Bo, Miller etc etc would have reacted to that?  Would they be happy that the work they put in for 59 games was all for nothing?

 

you also don't know that TT is a rental.........JB was very clear they will look into finding a way to keep him if he wants to be here.

I am not saying pull the plug at all

We have good players that could be very good player if given a chance like  a younger TT was at 21 when winning a Cup don't we? (just asking)

Just asking where do you draw the line, and do you sell the farm (team) if EP and Hughes get hurt Today just to "save" this season?

 

How do I think Petey, Bo Miller would react?

I would not be worried about their reactions,They are paid to worry about how they perform and I think are professional enough to understand accidents happen to every team, It was a chance and opportunities for others to step up with injuries

I think they would prefer to win a cup in the future, than just making it to the playoffs (which still could have occurred with TT, just as they might miss it with him)

 

I am playing devils advocate, this trade may turn out, but my preference would have been to use the asset of Madden (and if we had to include a 2nd) towards a very promising young dman that is rfa or under

[stawns]

5 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said:

 

I am not saying pull the plug at all

We have good players that could be very good player if given a chance like  a younger TT was at 21 when winning a Cup don't we? (just asking)

Just asking where do you draw the line, and do you sell the farm (team) if EP and Hughes get hurt Today just to "save" this season?

 

How do I think Petey, Bo Miller would react?

I would not be worried about their reactions,They are paid to worry about how they perform and I think are professional enough to understand accidents happen to every team, It was a chance and opportunities for others to step up with injuries

I think they would prefer to win a cup in the future, than just making it to the playoffs (which still could have occurred with TT, just as they might miss it with him)

 

I am playing devils advocate, this trade may turn out, but my preference would have been to use the asset of Madden (and if we had to include a 2nd) towards a very promising young dman that is rfa or under

I'm not disagreeing they could have used him for a dman, but I don't think they would have gotten more than a 6-7 dman for that same package.  

[Ballisticsports.]

1 hour ago, stawns said:

I'm not disagreeing they could have used him for a dman, but I don't think they would have gotten more than a 6-7 dman for that same package.  

I sure hope not

Isn't TT worth more than a 6-7 dman?

Then we could have traded Stecher for him ;)

[Junkyard Dog]

11 hours ago, Lazurus said:

Sorry, it is the modern world, the wifey doesn't just pack up her career and leave if it can be helped.

Better taxes in the states and lower cost of living in California.

Cali teams will not take the same amount of time to rebuild as Vancouver has, remember Vancouver has only been rebuilding for two seasons according to what Linden and Benning have said, With the amount of picks and prospects they are picking up they will get done in 3 years, the league average and before all their star players quit hockey.

You don't know that for a fact.

 

It's not wise to pretend you do

[JeremyCuddles]

3 hours ago, stawns said:

I'm not disagreeing they could have used him for a dman, but I don't think they would have gotten more than a 6-7 dman for that same package.  

Martinez was traded for two 2nd rounders? I think we could have got a top 4 D for the same package we got Toffoli. 

[stawns]

9 minutes ago, N7Nucks said:

Martinez was traded for two 2nd rounders? I think we could have got a top 4 D for the same package we got Toffoli. 

I question how many top 4 d are available at the deadline and if it were JB selling a top 4 dman, I'd be expecting nothing less than a 1st and a prospect.  

[WHL rocks]

Ryan Graves was traded from NYR to COL for a guy who's likely never going to make the NHL..they made the trade 2 yrs ago traded cpl 22 yr old kids with each other. Dman for forward. I've been watching Graves pretty close this season after watching him play a few games with Avs last season. Was dreaming in summer how JB should have gotten him out of the Rags instead of him ending up with Avs..

 

Two years after the trade Graves is a stud 24 yr old 6'5 220 lbs Dman. 8 goals 25Pts this season. He's leading the NHL with +42  next guy is Panarin at +30.

 

Imagine that happened in Vancouver. Half of CDC would have heart attacks. Other half likely be outside Benning's house with pitchforks, tar and feathers.

 

You gotta make the deal when you think it's the right call. Toffoli is a very good player. I've wanted him at the tdl all season.. he'll be great for us even if it's for a limited time. Type of guy makes difference of team being out in first round or win a round or two. 

 

[Me_]

16 hours ago, Alflives said:

I think Tofu is not signing here or LA.  If he wants to live and play close to where his wife works he will need to take a big pay cut and a shorter term than he could get elsewhere.  He’s going to get at least 5x5 from a team out there.  We can’t afford that cap or term.  The Kings are rebuilding, and will not give that length of term.  

Can always afford by making room. Depends on Toffoli really...
 

Never know.

[WHL rocks]

17 hours ago, Alflives said:

I think Tofu is not signing here or LA.  If he wants to live and play close to where his wife works he will need to take a big pay cut and a shorter term than he could get elsewhere.  He’s going to get at least 5x5 from a team out there.  We can’t afford that cap or term.  The Kings are rebuilding, and will not give that length of term.  

JB would happily pay 5@5 and make room if Tofu takes that deal.

 

I think it'll cost 5.5 to 6.0 per for 6 years ... somewhere in that range.

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, WHL rocks said:

JB would happily pay 5@5 and make room if Tofu takes that deal.

 

I think it'll cost 5.5 to 6.0 per for 6 years ... somewhere in that range.

Interesting numbers for Tofu.  Would it be wise to clear that 5.5 cap for Tofu by sweetening a Loui trade with a top prospect and a first?  

[WHL rocks]

4 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Interesting numbers for Tofu.  Would it be wise to clear that 5.5 cap for Tofu by sweetening a Loui trade with a top prospect and a first?  

Ya I think it's a great idea. I'm thinking JB should offer Podz OJ and next year's 3rd to anyone who takes LE.

 

Maybe throw in Hogz as a sweetener if that package isn't enough. 

 

I think it would be very wise.

[TNucks1]

3 minutes ago, WHL rocks said:

Ya I think it's a great idea. I'm thinking JB should offer Podz OJ and next year's 3rd to anyone who takes LE.

 

Maybe throw in Hogz as a sweetener if that package isn't enough. 

 

I think it would be very wise.

he got his scooter working again, i think he's on the booze and less on the food now lol.