Xanlet Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 Vancouver is currently in a stretch of having fewer powerplays in 9 of the last 11 playoff games for an aggregate of 27 powerplays for, 46 powerplays against. This trend holds across all playoff series post 2011, and as we stand all 4 opponents have had more powerplays in each series. To put this in perspective, over the same time period, since the 2012/2013 season to present, Van has had 1868 Powerplays and 1926 powerplays against over 609 games. This is a plus/minus balance of 58 powerplays against over 609 games. In the playoffs? Plus/minus balance of 19 powerplays against over 11 games. Yes, 0.095 powerplays against plus/minus balance average during the regular season, 1.73 powerplay against plus/minus balance average in the playoffs. I didn't accidentally add a 0 there, it is 0.095 during the regular season and 1.73 in the playoffs per game average. Now that we have the facts, what can account for them? Unlucky? Undisciplined? Or could it be something else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 4 hours ago, Xanlet said: Vancouver is currently in a stretch of having fewer powerplays in 9 of the last 11 playoff games for an aggregate of 27 powerplays for, 46 powerplays against. This trend holds across all playoff series post 2011, and as we stand all 4 opponents have had more powerplays in each series. To put this in perspective, over the same time period, since the 2012/2013 season to present, Van has had 1868 Powerplays and 1926 powerplays against over 609 games. This is a plus/minus balance of 58 powerplays against over 609 games. In the playoffs? Plus/minus balance of 19 powerplays against over 11 games. Yes, 0.095 powerplays against plus/minus balance average during the regular season, 1.73 powerplay against plus/minus balance average in the playoffs. I didn't accidentally add a 0 there, it is 0.095 during the regular season and 1.73 in the playoffs per game average. Now that we have the facts, what can account for them? Unlucky? Undisciplined? Or could it be something else? Pretty sure against Boston in 2011 we had 2–1 approx PP advantage... but yes I’ve seen entire series that seem scewed including 2011 against CHI the refs just kept calling everything in what definitely appeared like an effort to get CHI back into the series...SJ too a little but Bieksa stopped their crap when he made Eager go completely ballistic which was a pivotal moment for us as a result. All I have to say is we’ve never been burned like Vegas was last season. And that refs suck at times for each and every team in the league. Hard to imagine at that level and that pay scale that refs would deliberately call a game certain ways to give another team an advantage. Fraser who notoriously seemed particularly hard on us has talked a lot about what it’s like - and believe he’s honest about it - the last thing these guys want to do is call a penalty in a playoff game that isn’t warranted. Especially come OT or in the third period. Last night the refs didn’t call much - a ton of stuff was let go on either side - the Myers penalty was strange for sure given he just went out and continued to cross check and hammer the crap out of everyone each chance he got (aside from one pass he was awesome last night too - probably our best D). The Pearson ones were weak but I can see why they were called - they were penalties. The only thing that really pissed me off was the non call on BB when he was hauled down with a line to the net. Was the perfect time for the even up call (and we definitely should have got that), instead the call something they’d be letting go all night against EP with only 3 minutes left. Definitely affected the outcome and we as fans and the played and coaches could have a beef about that game. And all I will add is I’ve seen us get away with a lot too, and sometimes that’s the difference in the game. They have a tough job .... and a lot of the times they call it fairly. The ones that they don’t definitely stick out though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolboarder Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 Who was the referee in last night game and the past series with the Sharks in 2013? Sutherlands. It has something to do with the stats, if he gives other team some advantage early and won't give them the fair shake, it becomes difficult even a late call will not make a difference, their confidence is shot. If there was a fair shot, their confidence would be high and could make the difference early. That's how they could manipulate the result that way. If there is a hometown referee in the playoffs, he tends want to show the league that he is fair so he would get tough on us. I personally think that hometown referee should not ref in the game or even the home province/state. The same for other teams so that they would be fairly called game whether it be for or against. 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 Refs from Richmond are the worst. He sounds more like a cheerleader than a ref. Wants to be BFF instead of a guy in charge and that never works well. Trying too hard to be popular/cool? Just shut up and focus? Bro. https://scoutingtherefs.com/2016/05/13118/micd-up-referee-kelly-sutherland-at-bluesblackhawks-game-6/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goalie Interference Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 Will be interesting to see if PPs are down overall in the bubble--I imagine the pressure to make calls is much lower when you don't have 18,000 fans calling out missed calls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samgagner'sface Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 Wish we had the reffing from the Rangers/canes series Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 Tends to happen when Sutherland refs most of our games. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanlet Posted August 3, 2020 Author Share Posted August 3, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, IBatch said: All I have to say is we’ve never been burned like Vegas was last season. And that refs suck at times for each and every team in the league. Hard to imagine at that level and that pay scale that refs would deliberately call a game certain ways to give another team an advantage. Fraser who notoriously seemed particularly hard on us has talked a lot about what it’s like - and believe he’s honest about it - the last thing these guys want to do is call a penalty in a playoff game that isn’t warranted. Especially come OT or in the third period. Last night the refs didn’t call much - a ton of stuff was let go on either side - the Myers penalty was strange for sure given he just went out and continued to cross check and hammer the crap out of everyone each chance he got (aside from one pass he was awesome last night too - probably our best D). The Pearson ones were weak but I can see why they were called - they were penalties. The only thing that really pissed me off was the non call on BB when he was hauled down with a line to the net. Was the perfect time for the even up call (and we definitely should have got that), instead the call something they’d be letting go all night against EP with only 3 minutes left. Definitely affected the outcome and we as fans and the played and coaches could have a beef about that game. It's interesting you mention Fraser because a few years back he wrote on his column "C'mon Ref" that the league very likely decided not to suspend Toffoli while he was a king for his hit on Burrows because the Kings were in the hunt for the playoffs. That seems like pretty clear evidence that the person with the all time most games refereed believes the league makes decisions to help certain teams have success. The original TSN page will no longer load but since it was on the internet it is still alive here: https://web.archive.org/web/20160403062437/http://www.tsn.ca/c-mon-ref-the-lowdown-on-toffoli-1.239220 It's about the 5th paragraph down in Fraser's reply Edited August 3, 2020 by Xanlet typo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 56 minutes ago, Xanlet said: It's interesting you mention Fraser because a few years back he wrote on his column "C'mon Ref" that the league very likely decided not to suspend Toffoli while he was a king for his hit on Burrows because the Kings were in the hunt for the playoffs. That seems like pretty clear evidence that the person with the all time most games refereed believes the league makes decisions to help certain teams have success. The original TSN page will no longer load but since it was on the internet it is still alive here: https://web.archive.org/web/20160403062437/http://www.tsn.ca/c-mon-ref-the-lowdown-on-toffoli-1.239220 It's about the 5th paragraph down in Fraser's reply Sure does. Don’t think referees at that level intentionally go about things a certain way but do believe they could be influenced somewhat by certain things and one of them would be coaches and GMs b!tchen about the reffing. Both in game and in the media later...either by reeling it in a little or even by taking offense and demonstrating their supposedly “neutral” powers not in a so neutral way. They are human and even with the extra ref and video mistakes are made too - which is just part of the game. Personally I prefer the high road that TG usually takes - he does throw a few barbs here and there but they are pretty tame. It’s not like Burke saying things like “ Sedin isn’t Swedish for punch me in the back of the head and spear me in the stomach “ or whatever exactly it was what he said back then when they had their first taste of playoff action and it didn’t go so well for them. The script is pretty close to what I was expecting...just need to re-group maybe tweak the lineup by adding JV (I’d sit AG or Roussel) and come back and keep at it. Doubt Stalock and their defense can keep it up forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanlet Posted August 3, 2020 Author Share Posted August 3, 2020 1 hour ago, IBatch said: Sure does. Don’t think referees at that level intentionally go about things a certain way but do believe they could be influenced somewhat by certain things and one of them would be coaches and GMs b!tchen about the reffing. Both in game and in the media later...either by reeling it in a little or even by taking offense and demonstrating their supposedly “neutral” powers not in a so neutral way. They are human and even with the extra ref and video mistakes are made too - which is just part of the game. Personally I prefer the high road that TG usually takes - he does throw a few barbs here and there but they are pretty tame. It’s not like Burke saying things like “ Sedin isn’t Swedish for punch me in the back of the head and spear me in the stomach “ or whatever exactly it was what he said back then when they had their first taste of playoff action and it didn’t go so well for them. I agree it's probably largely gamesmanship, however I remember at one of the summit meetings Colin Campbell, the director of hockey operations for the league said that the current operating procedure for the league is that they have an internal list of players deemed "divers" which they distribute to the referees. My question is how are these player's status determined, and what happens if one team has 5 "divers" and the other team has 1? I imagine that would predispose an official to call more on one team than another. This situation would result in the officials believing they were officiating honestly while really carrying out potential biases from the league higher ups. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 1 minute ago, Xanlet said: I agree it's probably largely gamesmanship, however I remember at one of the summit meetings Colin Campbell, the director of hockey operations for the league said that the current operating procedure for the league is that they have an internal list of players deemed "divers" which they distribute to the referees. My question is how are these player's status determined, and what happens if one team has 5 "divers" and the other team has 1? I imagine that would predispose an official to call more on one team than another. This situation would result in the officials believing they were officiating honestly while really carrying out potential biases from the league higher ups. Honestly a lot of players including stars can go down a little too easy and try and get away with it. Sometimes with hilarious results (get barely tapped and go into a pirouette circle and collapse into a pile)...we’ve all seen it. It’s funny when it’s someone on our team (ahem Kesler was known to do it from time to time) but screaming rage when it happens to us. Video review and instant replays have helped change that a lot ... I’m sure it still happens but the masters are a lot more subtle. EP seems to fall down every time contact is made ... and some players just aren’t built to stand up to contact either. Don’t think this is much of a problem anymore (sure it happens often enough) .... Campbell’s time was a little different and sure it affected the refs judgement to a degree... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldoescobar Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 4 hours ago, debluvscanucks said: Refs from Richmond are the worst. He sounds more like a cheerleader than a ref. Wants to be BFF instead of a guy in charge and that never works well. Trying too hard to be popular/cool? Just shut up and focus? Bro. https://scoutingtherefs.com/2016/05/13118/micd-up-referee-kelly-sutherland-at-bluesblackhawks-game-6/ Sutherland should be ok now with respect to the nucks... Flyers may have an issue later on if they go far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanlet Posted August 3, 2020 Author Share Posted August 3, 2020 1 minute ago, IBatch said: Honestly a lot of players including stars can go down a little too easy and try and get away with it. Sometimes with hilarious results (get barely tapped and go into a pirouette circle and collapse into a pile)...we’ve all seen it. It’s funny when it’s someone on our team (ahem Kesler was known to do it from time to time) but screaming rage when it happens to us. Video review and instant replays have helped change that a lot ... I’m sure it still happens but the masters are a lot more subtle. EP seems to fall down every time contact is made ... and some players just aren’t built to stand up to contact either. Don’t think this is much of a problem anymore (sure it happens often enough) .... Campbell’s time was a little different and sure it affected the refs judgement to a degree... Campbell is still director of hockey operations.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 48 minutes ago, Xanlet said: Campbell is still director of hockey operations.... I was thinking of Campbell’s time as lead or head disciplinarian... You know Parros , Grimson, Shannys old job dealing our suspensions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebreh Posted August 3, 2020 Share Posted August 3, 2020 6 hours ago, Samgagner'sface said: Wish we had the reffing from the Rangers/canes series or the one that did the Laffs/Jackets game last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 6 hours ago, Pears said: Tends to happen when Sutherland refs most of our games. This. Won't be fixed until Benning/Green publicly insists on the league not assigning him to our games. The league unfortunately believes this level of corruption/incompetence is acceptable until they have no choice other than to hold problem officials accountable. 3 hours ago, Ronaldoescobar said: Sutherland should be ok now with respect to the nucks... Flyers may have an issue later on if they go far. He sure has hell hasn't conducted himself appropriately since AV left town. He is definitely not ok. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmm Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 20 minutes ago, King Heffy said: This. Won't be fixed until Benning/Green publicly insists on the league not assigning him to our games. The league unfortunately believes this level of corruption/incompetence is acceptable until they have no choice other than to hold problem officials accountable. He sure has hell hasn't conducted himself appropriately since AV left town. He is definitely not ok. its not Green or Benning's job that just makes the team a bunch of whiners which they already have a reputation for Fans should revolt make signs march, protest burn his house... oops maybe that is going too far more memes about Kelly Oh, wait, didn't Burr and Kes say something about Kelly? Maybe Sutherland thinks that was about him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 1 minute ago, lmm said: its not Green or Benning's job that just makes the team a bunch of whiners which they already have a reputation for Fans should revolt make signs march, protest burn his house... oops maybe that is going too far more memes about Kelly Oh, wait, didn't Burr and Kes say something about Kelly? Maybe Sutherland thinks that was about him There is a huge difference between "we didn't agree with the calls this one game" and "this ref has been a continued issue. At this point we do not trust his ability to officiate a game impartially". At some point, it's on management to at least attempt to put some pressure on the NHL to clean up their act. Silence doesn't address the problem at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmm Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 43 minutes ago, King Heffy said: There is a huge difference between "we didn't agree with the calls this one game" and "this ref has been a continued issue. At this point we do not trust his ability to officiate a game impartially". At some point, it's on management to at least attempt to put some pressure on the NHL to clean up their act. Silence doesn't address the problem at all. I don't think that is how the NHL operates. The Canucks have been on the bad side of theNHL for ever speaking out never helped before, I don't see it helping now. Fan mockery is the only option I see more memes with Kelly and Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 The 2 rulebooks goes back generations. Roger knew what he was doing..God Bless the man! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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