[Discussion] Arizona/OEL

[Odjick the Warrior]

7 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Well we'd be sending cap to the Yotes that would equate to that 8.25M of OEL. So after the OEL trade we'd still have around the cap space we do now.

At the very least Sutter is going the other way that has a $4 million cap hit and if Arizona takes LE with his $6 million cap hit there is under $2.5 million cap difference, so you are at most adding an extra $4 million and change for a top 2 defenseman on your team which is a no brainer in my mind.

[Smashian Kassian]

8 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

This is going to be a big trade and I think JB is going to use it to hopefully solve a couple of issues.

 

Sadly if OEL is coming in then Tanev might be left behind, but Toffoli and Tanev out would be a hard one to swallow, especially if this trade includes some scoring forwards.

 

If he's qualified Gaudette and Virtanen then they may well be in his plans and who knows, the pair could really break out next season and support the loss of Toffoli.

 

On D though, OEL is great but not as good a penalty killer as Tanev.

 

In the ideal world, I say we do one of the following:

 

1 - Virtanen + Lind + Eriksson + 3rd for OEL

2 - Sutter + Lind + 2nd for OEL and hopefully cP retained

 

In either scenario, we could re-sign Marky and Tanev for a combined 11M

 

OEL - Tanev

Hughes - Myers

Edler - Fanta/Benn

 

Probably best defence in the West there.

 

 

 

With the interest/contract Tanev is going to get, I'd rather sign Toffoli. Then try to pickup a RHD that get's squeezed. I think this market is going to be interesting, some of the guys going there with 'normal year' expectations might be in for a surprise.

 

Imagine getting Marky/OEL/Toff. (And I'm going to assume Virtanen is in the OEL trade)

 

Miller - Pete - Boes

Pearson - Horvat - Toffoli

Roussel - Gaudette - Leivo

Motte - Beagle - MacEwen

Ferland*

 

Hughes - Myers

OEL - ???

Edler - Benn/Rafferty/Chatfield

 

Markstrom

 

- How you arrange the D is TBD. Maybe OEL slides to the right side bringing Edler into the T4. 

- Ferland is TBD, seems like he'll try to play but if he doesn't there's some cap space aswell. 

- And who knows what might be available on the cheap. I assume some serviceable guys. (as I said about the surprises)

 

Edited October 9, 2020 by Smashian Kassian

[Outsiders]

10 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

This is going to be a big trade and I think JB is going to use it to hopefully solve a couple of issues.

 

Sadly if OEL is coming in then Tanev might be left behind, but Toffoli and Tanev out would be a hard one to swallow, especially if this trade includes some scoring forwards.

 

If he's qualified Gaudette and Virtanen then they may well be in his plans and who knows, the pair could really break out next season and support the loss of Toffoli.

 

On D though, OEL is great but not as good a penalty killer as Tanev.

 

In the ideal world, I say we do one of the following:

 

1 - Virtanen + Lind + Eriksson + 3rd for OEL

2 - Sutter + Lind + 2nd for OEL and hopefully cP retained

 

In either scenario, we could re-sign Marky and Tanev for a combined 11M

 

OEL - Tanev

Hughes - Myers

Edler - Fanta/Benn

 

Probably best defence in the West there.

 

 

My best guess of the deal is:

 

Sutter, Virtanen, Lind, 2nd 

 

We aren't parting with any top prospects so they aren't wanting to take Eriksson and rightfully so. 

[Blitz-Pix]

5 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

There's no way they make the OEL move without salary going back though. Whether it be Loui, Sutter, Baer, or even retention. It seems like a pre-requisite for the deal.

Agreed...but let's say (for example) they take Sutters contract. We get 4 million in Cap  relief but if Demko is involved in the trade we then need to go out and sign a reliable backup...what's that going to cost us? 3 million(ish)?

 

So we net a million bucks but still have roster players we need to sign. I really can't see trading for OEL and signing Markstrom. I'm probably wrong but filling out the roster and staying under the cap doesn't work. 

 

[Where's Wellwood]

12 minutes ago, Blitz-Pix said:

I don't believe Arizona takes back equal Cap to OEL's. The whole idea here is for them to shed cap space IMO. They'd probably take something back but wouldn't expect it to be equal. 

 

From our standpoint any cap we send them is going right back into the market to find a reliable backup from potentially losing Demko in the trade....plus we would still have to fill out the rest of our roster. That's why I dont think we can afford both Marky and OEL. 

I don't think it's specifically cap space this year ownership wants to shed. It's the rest of a high money, long term contract. That's a lot of real dollars that would be paid out over many years (56 million-ish).

 

By trading OEL for Eriksson, they're trading real money, long term, for a cap hit that is much higher than the salary, short term. 

 

Meanwhile the Canucks trade dead cap hit (Eriksson being healthy scratched) for a player who will play an integral role on the team (top 4 D)

[Blitz-Pix]

3 minutes ago, Outsiders said:

My best guess of the deal is:

 

Sutter, Virtanen, Lind, 2nd 

 

We aren't parting with any top prospects so they aren't wanting to take Eriksson and rightfully so. 

Seems fair to me considering Arizona has no leverage but I'm a homer. That offer clearly favors us so I can understand if/when the Yotes tell us to go pound sand. LOL 

[Smashian Kassian]

7 minutes ago, Blitz-Pix said:

Agreed...but let's say (for example) they take Sutters contract. We get 4 million in Cap  relief but if Demko is involved in the trade we then need to go out and sign a reliable backup...what's that going to cost us? 3 million(ish)?

 

So we net a million bucks but still have roster players we need to sign. I really can't see trading for OEL and signing Markstrom. I'm probably wrong but filling out the roster and staying under the cap doesn't work. 

 

 

I think you can get someone at a decent price. Worst case - dare I say - sign Schneider to back-up at a prove it contract. Or someone else who's a capable backup (not 1B), who won't break the bank. Elliot signed for 1.5 for example, and theres alot of goalies on the market. Next season will be condensed but probably not 82 games. 

[Blitz-Pix]

4 minutes ago, Where's Wellwood said:

I don't think it's specifically cap space this year ownership wants to shed. It's the rest of a high money, long term contract. That's a lot of real dollars that would be paid out over many years (56 million-ish).

 

By trading OEL for Eriksson, they're trading real money, long term, for a cap hit that is much higher than the salary, short term. 

 

Meanwhile the Canucks trade dead cap hit (Eriksson being healthy scratched) for a player who will play an integral role on the team (top 4 D)

According to Cap friendly Arizona has 17/23 players signed and have 2.6 million in Cap space left...they need to shed cap this year in order to fill out their 23 man roster, which I'm guessing means they wont be interested in taking back equal or close to equal cap space in the trade. 

[Blitz-Pix]

6 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

I think you can get someone at a decent price. Worst case - dare I say - sign Schneider to back-up at a prove it contract. Or someone else who's a capable backup (not 1B), who won't break the bank. Elliot signed for 1.5 for example, and theres alot of goalies on the market. Next season will be condensed but probably not 82 games. 

That would be the hope IMO....but you may have to rely on Marky playing 55-60ish games then without a 1b goaltender...and what if Marky gets injured or is out for awhile. It's happened the last couple years. If he played that many games...how fresh would he be for a playoff run? 

Edited October 9, 2020 by Blitz-Pix

[DownUndaCanuck]

16 minutes ago, Outsiders said:

My best guess of the deal is:

 

Sutter, Virtanen, Lind, 2nd 

 

We aren't parting with any top prospects so they aren't wanting to take Eriksson and rightfully so. 

My worry with this is we lose 5M, gain 8M, so will have to let Tanev and Toffoli go. That's a top-3 scorer, 20 goal scorer in Virtanen and 3C in Sutter, about 65 goals worth of production. Not sure where we're going to replace that from.

 

For me, if Arizona want that much I don't think it's worth it unless we can somehow keep one of our big UFAs.

[Odjick the Warrior]

15 minutes ago, Outsiders said:

My best guess of the deal is:

 

Sutter, Virtanen, Lind, 2nd 

 

We aren't parting with any top prospects so they aren't wanting to take Eriksson and rightfully so. 

I wish it was that but Arizona has made it clear at least from the TSN insiders and Friedman that a young defenseman or defensive prospect HAS TO COME THEIR WAY IN A TRADE as a base to the package. Probably one of Juolevi, Rathbone, Woo instead of Lind. I personally would try to put Gaudette in the trade instead of one of those defenseman as the Canucks have enough bottom 6 centres or won’t be hard to get one in UFA market for cheap.

[mll]

58 minutes ago, grandmaster said:

Vegas and Toronto have no cap space for Alex Pietralengelo. Vancouver does. We can still manage to hopefully sign Tanev or TT with what remains (they can hopefully unload more cap space as time goes on).

 

They are working on making cap room.  It apparently could take a few days before he signs as he is apparently willing to go on site to visit the different teams.  

 

St Louis can no longer offer him 8 years as he is a UFA now so it does look like they are out of the running.  

[qwijibo]

1 hour ago, crunch55 said:

Arizona will be down 8plus million on OEL and 6 million on Taylor Hall so closer to the floor than some think.If we get OEL then we are not signing Tanev,  so in reality if we get Arizona to eat a couple million and don't pay Tanev 4 million then it's only a couple million more for OEL

Without Hall they are at 17 players signed and have $2.6m in cap space.   Hossa’s $5.6m can go on LTIR but that not without problems. And it still doesn’t leave them a lot of space to fill out the roster.  They can take back as much cap as they send out in OEL. but certainly no more. Also. There is zero chance they retain on OEL.  You’re asking them to retain $2m for 7 years? Do you think that’s a realistic ask? Would you be ok with Vancouver retaining $2m for 7 years? Of course not. 

[Odjick the Warrior]

4 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

My worry with this is we lose 5M, gain 8M, so will have to let Tanev and Toffoli go. That's a top-3 scorer, 20 goal scorer in Virtanen and 3C in Sutter, about 65 goals worth of production. Not sure where we're going to replace that from.

 

For me, if Arizona want that much I don't think it's worth it unless we can somehow keep one of our big UFAs.

Canucks can still sign Toffoli and Tanev but not Markstrom or anyone over a $1.5 million after that but wouldn’t need to as they will be set every where except backup goalie. 
This is pennies on the dollar for a bonafide 1st pairing stud defenseman that can play every situation and play over 20 minutes a game if needed to and hits and has never had less then 35 points in a season since I think 2012 and for the longest time he was the Coyotes 1 man breakout out of their own zone. These guys don’t come available often and when they do it is usually more then what Edmonton gave up for their Larsson and 1st rounder and a prospect. So basically if this was 2 years ago before he signed his deal Canucks would have had to give up Boeser, 1st round pick, Juolevi just to be taken seriously as he was routinely the most underrated player in the NHL. 
On Sekeres and Price this afternoon Pierre Lebrun said at least 6 teams were hounding Arizona after they lost the play in round just asking about trying to get OEL and he said that OEL did not want to waive his NTC for any of them.

[Dazzle]

According to a Twitter person who correctly called the Puljujarvi signing WITH the term and dollar amounts a few days in advance of the official announcement, I think the trade did in fact go through. It's not officially confirmed, so this person could still be wrong, and I'm not posting it here. It's purely just for speculation.

 

If true though, this is going to be an interesting season. I'm really not sure how OEL will do.

Edited October 9, 2020 by Dazzle

[grandmaster]

5 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

According to a Twitter person who correctly called the Puljujarvi signing WITH the term and dollar amounts a few days in advance of the official announcement, I think the trade did in fact go through. It's not officially confirmed, so this person could still be wrong, and I'm not posting it here. It's purely just for speculation.

 

If true though, this is going to be an interesting season. I'm really not sure how OEL will do.

You gotta post that Twitter tho!

[grandmaster]

Arizona, you have 9 hours to comply your ownership request to sell OEL off.
Pressure is on you.

 

Otherwise we are ...

 

[N4ZZY]

On 10/5/2020 at 7:50 PM, EternalCanuckFan said:

The Coyotes have a dire need to clear cap space and OEL is probably the highest value asset they can part with but if I were them, then I wouldn't feel the pressure to deal OEL unless he has specifically requested a trade and/or has indicated that he would not report to camp (which I would be very surprised).

 

If I'm not mistaken, then so far what we know is that the Coyotes are pushing OEL to accept a trade.  Of course that is not going to be great for relations between OEL and Coyotes' management, but would he fail to report?  I doubt it.  A trade will be needed eventually but will the offers go lower than what they're receiving now?

 

If the Coyotes can find a trading partner for a guy like Derek Stepan, it would help enormously with their cap situation.  They could retain as well.  His base salary is $2M so a cash strapped team might have interest in taking on his cap hit, considering also that this is the last year of his deal.  Kessel had a huge down year and looks like he might have started a precipitous decline but again, his base salary is $1M so a cash strapped team might be willing to take him on.

 

Given how much has been reported about OEL, it seems like they are genuinely trying to move him but obviously they don't want to lose him for nothing.  I don't think this is going to be an Ehrhoff for Patrick White situation and I suspect Coyotes management might be more willing to wait than all the reporting indicates.

 

Still, I agree that the Canucks need to hold their ground on not mortgaging the future for this deal.  OEL is a great player to acquire but his $8.25M cap hit could well be an albatross if the Canucks can't move salary back to the Coyotes.  If there's a deal to be made, then I would think that it would have to incorporate significant movement of $ not only to make it work but to make it worth the Canucks' while for the long term.

Yeah it doesn’t make sense 

 

Just now, grandmaster said:

Arizona, you have 9 hours to comply your ownership request to sell OEL off.
Pressure is on you.

 

Otherwise we are ...

 

If there is a deal to be made. It’s going to be announced tmr morning. I personally don’t think a deal will be made. I think Arizona doesn’t want to get ripped off and they think they are by the Canucks. 

[Dazzle]

Just now, grandmaster said:

You gotta post that Twitter tho!

It's on my status.

[khay]

7 minutes ago, IjustNEEDaTROYgamble said:

Canucks can still sign Toffoli and Tanev but not Markstrom or anyone over a $1.5 million after that but wouldn’t need to as they will be set every where except backup goalie. 
This is pennies on the dollar for a bonafide 1st pairing stud defenseman that can play every situation and play over 20 minutes a game if needed to and hits and has never had less then 35 points in a season since I think 2012 and for the longest time he was the Coyotes 1 man breakout out of their own zone. These guys don’t come available often and when they do it is usually more then what Edmonton gave up for their Larsson and 1st rounder and a prospect. So basically if this was 2 years ago before he signed his deal Canucks would have had to give up Boeser, 1st round pick, Juolevi just to be taken seriously as he was routinely the most underrated player in the NHL. 
On Sekeres and Price this afternoon Pierre Lebrun said at least 6 teams were hounding Arizona after they lost the play in round just asking about trying to get OEL and he said that OEL did not want to waive his NTC for any of them.

Wait, didn't they win the play-in round?

 

Anyhow, I agree that OEL would be a great fit here. I think we can fit his salary in under the cap even if we don't send Eriksson their way as long as we don't re-sign any of our own UFAs.

 

I think Toffoli's production can probably be replaced relatively easily.

 

I think adding OEL and making our defence better somewhat offsets losing Marky. Demko + a capable goaltender may be able to hold the fort.

 

But I don't know who's going to replace Tanev. All that hard PK minutes and defensive assignments? I'd like to re-sign Tanev but the only way for us to do that is if we dump either Eriksson or trade Sutter+.