Racist attacks against Mi'kmaw fishers

[Warhippy]

Just now, peaches5 said:

What I believe is your reserve doesn't give you the right to create your own laws and that you can bypass canadian laws - with exceptions but not for $$$. I consider you a canadian citizen and with that you must abide by Canadian law. The RCMP should work for you as it does any canadian citizen and there shouldn't be any difference. 

EXCEPT

 

And this is important

 

We follow all of the same laws.  Barring trapping, hunting, fishing which are aboriginal rights as enshrined UNDER CANADIAN LAW.  This is also the same with provincial treaties across the nation.

 

In this instance, the Mi'kmaw people are literally doing what they're legally entitled to.  End of story.  There is no further argument you can make.  This is their right as enshrined in both federal and provincial law and treaty.

 

Why are you arguing against that?  There is no segregation here at all.  There is no you vs me.  This is a law that was drafted and written up and broken hundreds if not thousands of times.  So why are you arguing against it?

[thejazz97]

1 minute ago, RUPERTKBD said:

That's a really good question. From the sounds of it, there is arson, property damage, theft and unlawful confinement going on.

 

I can't think of a good reason (or even a bad one) for the RCMP not taking action.

a) they've always been at odds with first nations, and b) they exist to support colonial property, not first nations.

 

the CP railway has its own private police force, it's always been this way in canada

[RUPERTKBD]

2 minutes ago, peaches5 said:

What I believe is your reserve doesn't give you the right to create your own laws and that you can bypass canadian laws - with exceptions but not for $$$. I consider you a canadian citizen and with that you must abide by Canadian law. The RCMP should work for you as it does any canadian citizen and there shouldn't be any difference. 

What you don't seem to understand here is that it isn't the Mikmaw who are breaking the law, it's the non-indigenous folks.

 

The laws are supposed to protect the rights of the Indigenous fishers, that were entrenched in treaties years ago.

[Lancaster]

I have no dog in this fight.... Aboriginal rights or whatnot... not my purview.... but why are the police and authorities not doing anything to settle things down?  Whoever is in charge should be fired ASAP.  

Not a fan of using the military for policing, but just send the army in to clamp things down for a cool-off period.  

Everybody stay indoors, those breaking curfew will be arrest, those committing arsons and vandalism will be shot prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

 

There should be no tolerance for violence no matter who you are.  

[RUPERTKBD]

Just now, thejazz97 said:

a) they've always been at odds with first nations, and b) they exist to support colonial property, not first nations.

 

the CP railway has its own private police force, it's always been this way in canada

It's funny you mention that, many years ago, I was doing a delivery to one of the mills in PG. To get to the site, I had to cross railroad tracks and I did something wrong. (Can't remember what)

 

I got pulled over by a Railway Cop who actually wrote me a ticket. (which I tossed as soon as he drove away) I had no idea there was such a thing as a railway cop.

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, Lancaster said:

I have no dog in this fight.... Aboriginal rights or whatnot... not my purview.... but why are the police and authorities not doing anything to settle things down?  Whoever is in charge should be fired ASAP.  

Not a fan of using the military for policing, but just send the army in to clamp things down for a cool-off period.  

Everybody stay indoors, those breaking curfew will be arrest, those committing arsons and vandalism will be shot prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

 

There should be no tolerance for violence no matter who you are.  

votes. NS is a liberal stronghold. If they fudge this up the CPC can swoop in claiming they'll "stand up" for the fishermen and maybe take a riding or two. 

[CBH1926]

4 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

That's a really good question. From the sounds of it, there is arson, property damage, theft and unlawful confinement going on.

 

I can't think of a good reason (or even a bad one) for the RCMP not taking action.

The only thing that comes to my mind is racism.

Not scientific or NS based but I do notice that lot of people in BC complain and are bitter about the FN “privileges”

 

I know cops have let rioting go on down here to de escalate racial tensions with black people.

Don't get why white cops in NS would not arrest white people that are breaking the law.

 

 

[peaches5]

1 minute ago, Warhippy said:

EXCEPT

 

And this is important

 

We follow all of the same laws.  Barring trapping, hunting, fishing which are aboriginal rights as enshrined UNDER CANADIAN LAW.  This is also the same with provincial treaties across the nation.

 

In this instance, the Mi'kmaw people are literally doing what they're legally entitled to.  End of story.  There is no further argument you can make.  This is their right as enshrined in both federal and provincial law and treaty.

 

Why are you arguing against that?  There is no segregation here at all.  There is no you vs me.  This is a law that was drafted and written up and broken hundreds if not thousands of times.  So why are you arguing against it?

I am saying, and from what I've seen from some of the natives in Nova Scotia, the treaty needs more clarity. Let the courts decide what they can and can't do. Until then yea they can keep catching and selling all the Lobster they want. I just think the treaty isn't meant for commercial fishing. If you want to commercially fish for Lobster then you have to follow the lobster season... If the courts say they can.. then nothing I can do about it. If people are going to burn down cars and poison lobsters and destroy equipment ect because they don't like what the courts decided they should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

[Warhippy]

Just now, peaches5 said:

I am saying, and from what I've seen from some of the natives in Nova Scotia, the treaty needs more clarity. Let the courts decide what they can and can't do. Until then yea they can keep catching and selling all the Lobster they want. I just think the treaty isn't meant for commercial fishing. If you want to commercially fish for Lobster then you have to follow the lobster season... If the courts say they can.. then nothing I can do about it. If people are going to burn down cars and poison lobsters and destroy equipment ect because they don't like what the courts decided they should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

These are not commercial vessels the first nations are setting out.  they're 20 and 30 foot skiffs with a dozen traps.  They're manned by 2-4 people.  They're vessels that are usually family owned and have been for decades and more.  Hand drawn rigging for trap placement

 

The claims of mass commercial trapping are way overblown

[RUPERTKBD]

1 minute ago, CBH1926 said:

The only thing that comes to my mind is racism.

Not scientific or NS based but I do notice that lot of people in BC complain and are bitter about the FN “privileges”

 

I know cops have let rioting go on down here to de escalate racial tensions with black people.

Don't get why white cops in NS would not arrest white people that are breaking the law.

Absolutely true. Unfortunately, there are many people (in BC and other provinces) who don't really understand how things are.

 

While it's true that there are opportunities that are aimed specifically at First Nations peoples, it's also true that there are significant requirements that they have to meet before those opportunities can be accessed. It it not simply "handouts' as some would have you believe.

 

Another common refrain, is that FN people "don't pay taxes". Also incorrect. My wife and daughters are members of the Wet'suwet'en nation and I know for a fact that they pay taxes, because I'm the one who buys Turbo Tax and does their returns every year.

 

I don't know if the best term to use is "racism" or "ignorance". Probably, it's a combination of the two.

[Warhippy]

3 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

I don't know if the best term to use is "racism" or "ignorance". Probably, it's a combination of the two.

They tend to go hand in hand

[peaches5]

1 minute ago, Warhippy said:

These are not commercial vessels the first nations are setting out.  they're 20 and 30 foot skiffs with a dozen traps.  They're manned by 2-4 people.  They're vessels that are usually family owned and have been for decades and more.  Hand drawn rigging for trap placement

 

The claims of mass commercial trapping are way overblown

If you are going out every day fishing for lobsters and selling them I would consider that commercial fishing and that should be regulated. If you're going out every single day and feeding your family or the families on the reserve with those lobsters then all the power to you. Leave it up to the courts to decide what they can and can't do and until then they can, and anyone trying to stop them should be stopped by the RCMP.

[CBH1926]

7 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

Absolutely true. Unfortunately, there are many people (in BC and other provinces) who don't really understand how things are.

 

While it's true that there are opportunities that are aimed specifically at First Nations peoples, it's also true that there are significant requirements that they have to meet before those opportunities can be accessed. It it not simply "handouts' as some would have you believe.

 

Another common refrain, is that FN people "don't pay taxes". Also incorrect. My wife and daughters are members of the Wet'suwet'en nation and I know for a fact that they pay taxes, because I'm the one who buys Turbo Tax and does their returns every year.

 

I don't know if the best term to use is "racism" or "ignorance". Probably, it's a combination of the two.

People complain about affirmative action down here, I am not a fan of reverse school discrimination against Asians and whites.

But anyone who thinks that lot of black people are not disadvantaged is &^@#ing high.

 

The only group that is marginalized and disadvantaged even more are native Americans imo.

At least there are black musicians, athletes, politicians and celebrities that are constantly speaking about their issues.

Edited October 16, 2020 by CBH1926

[RUPERTKBD]

22 hours ago, CBH1926 said:

People complain about affirmative action down here, I am not a fan of reverse school discrimination against Asians and whites.

But anyone who thinks that lot of black people are not disadvantaged is &^@#ing high.

 

The only group that is marginalized and disadvantaged even more are native Americans imo.

At least there are black musicians, athletes, politicians and celebrities that are constantly speaking about their issues.

Yep. The confrontation in North Dakota was hardly a blip on the American News cycle. I think it was more widely discussed here on CDC, TBH...

Edited October 17, 2020 by RUPERTKBD

[Violator]

1 hour ago, Warhippy said:

These are not commercial vessels the first nations are setting out.  they're 20 and 30 foot skiffs with a dozen traps.  They're manned by 2-4 people.  They're vessels that are usually family owned and have been for decades and more.  Hand drawn rigging for trap placement

 

The claims of mass commercial trapping are way overblown

From all of the pictures and video I have seen they are definitely commercial fishing vessels.

[Warhippy]

7 minutes ago, Violator said:

From all of the pictures and video I have seen they are definitely commercial fishing vessels.

Your average Mi'kmaw vessel

 

 

Your average commercial vessel 

 

[Ghostsof1915]

Wouldn't it be better to have all parties work together to maintain fish and shellfish habitat? So there can be generations from all walks of life either keeping their traditions alive and making a living? DFO and environment get lip service from Governments. Maybe when the season is over, they work on cleaning, and improving and expanding habitat. 

Maybe boost the Navy and Coast Guard to prevent other nations from depleting what little stocks are left in our coastal waters. 

 

Guess the same can be said for other renewables like Lumber. Instead of wiping out old growth, preserve it. And get more tree planting, and rebuild our forests so we can have habitat for animals, places for tourism, and income for people. (Selective logging instead of clear cutting, etc).

 

 

[Violator]

6 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Your average Mi'kmaw vessel

 

 

Your average commercial vessel 

 

[RWMc1]

 

[chon derry]

2 hours ago, peaches5 said:

Every land that has been conquered since the dawn of time has disrupted the previous settlers livelihoods. Every land has been taken from someone at some point in time. You don't get to say oh 2000 years ago my ancestors lived on this land so I have the rights to it. That's not how it works.

so only commercial fishermans familys ,with a 200 year history get to stake claim?  the Mi'mak and acadians fought the british for 75 years in the early 1700s ,and held them off . the 2 groups formally complained to the French commander at fort louisborg  only to have france stake claim to the entire east coast . the 2 groups NEVER conceded ANY land ever  nor were they included in the initial treatys .since all of these raw deals way back when they have signed 'peace and friendship'  treatys  one of which allows the harvesting of cod, capelin, lobster ,crab ,shrimp ,shellfish. Being half Haida myself and knowing how long they have inhabitated Haida Gwai (14,000) years that they know of...the length of time spent in the area is exactly how it works . when this lobster fiasco goes back to court   which it will . all the clouded memories will be cleared up.  something like this would never happen on the west coast  since the commercial sector ,fisheries, the processing and the enhancement , the majority would be Native input. the east coast fisheries has always been a greedy MESS!