Safe to say Hughes is on the same level as Dahlin now?

[cuporbust]

Hey guys. Just curious if the popular  belief that Rasmus Dahlin is in a different tier then Makar and Hughes is still valid ? I'm going to suggest Hughes  and Makar have proven to be a comparables now IMO. I suppose you have to also consider that Hughes and Makar both play for much better teams. Thoughts?

 

Edited November 11, 2020 by cuporbust

[Kevin Biestra]

Are Hughes and Makar not considered superior at this point?

[khay]

Right now, yes. The three players, Dahlin, Hughes, and Makar are all on the same tier.

 

But IMO, Dahlin has the potential to be at another tier on his own in 5 years or so.

 

 

 

 

 

[Ronaldoescobar]

Absolutely no slight against QH as I love the player, but I would put him just a tad below (not very far for sure) Dahlin and Makar. 

[cuporbust]

1 minute ago, Kevin Biestra said:

Are Hughes and Makar not considered superior at this point?

Not sure I'd go that far yet. The Sabres are a horrible team. That has to factor in I think. 

[cuporbust]

7 minutes ago, Ronaldoescobar said:

Absolutely no slight against QH as I love the player, but I would put him just a tad below (not very far for sure) Dahlin and Makar. 

? He is definitely not a tier below Makar. I don't think a single pro analyst would suggest that. It was literally a coin flip between them for the calder this year. 

Edited November 11, 2020 by cuporbust

[TheNewGM]

Dahlin is over rated IMO. They are all on an elite level. Theyll have to prove themselves more as they develop. I would argue Huhges Carries the play more so then either makar or dehlin, but they are all close

[canucklehead44]

Makar and Hughes are at the same level. Boxscore stats and underlying stats are neck to neck. Both are quite a bit ahead of Dahlin. That said, Dahlin is still very, very good and has the highest upside

 

[cuporbust]

10 minutes ago, canucklehead44 said:

Makar and Hughes are at the same level. Boxscore stats and underlying stats are neck to neck. Both are quite a bit ahead of Dahlin. That said, Dahlin is still very, very good and has the highest upside

 

This is great. I didn't even make Makar in a higher tier an option because it is not arguable at this point. Makar isn't in a higher tier , and that's fact not opinion. 

[Ronaldoescobar]

12 minutes ago, cuporbust said:

? He is definitely not a tier below Makar. I don't think a single pro analyst would suggest that. It was literally a coin flip between them for the calder this year. 

116-53 were the 1st place votes for ROTY if I’m not mistaken which is quite a bit more than the 50-50 coin flip odds so it literally was not that. I also said QH is a tad below in my opinion. 

[cuporbust]

1 minute ago, Ronaldoescobar said:

116-53 were the 1st place votes for ROTY if I’m not mistaken which is quite a bit more than the 50-50 coin flip odds so it literally was not that. I also said QH is a tad below in my opinion. 

I suppose "Tier " is subjective.  When I say it , I dont mean who u think is slightly better . For me there are 3 top tiers 

 

Generational talent

Elite talent 

Top end talent 

 

You don't jump a tier for having a slightly better season IMO, but that's how I look at it.

[Ronaldoescobar]

2 minutes ago, cuporbust said:

I suppose "Tier " is subjective.  When I say it , I dont mean who u think is slightly better . For me there are 3 top tiers 

 

Generational talent

Elite talent 

Top end talent 

 

You don't jump a tier for having a slightly better season IMO, but that's how I look at it.

Absolutely fair enough and I agree I don’t think with the tiers you listed that you would find QH below Makar and I am probably making it seem that they are farther apart (not my intention). Like I said I love the guy and couldn’t be happier he is on our team. 
 

cheers!

Edited November 11, 2020 by Ronaldoescobar

[-AJ-]

I think Dahlin is actually being massively underrated by a lot of fans. Hughes and Makar have made people forget how good this kid is.

 

That said, I would say both Hughes and Makar are both at least as good as Dahlin right now. That said, Dahlin is six months younger than Hughes and 1.5 years younger than Makar, and at this age, those numbers can still be relevant. Dahlin quietly took a very big jump in his sophomore season. If he takes another big jump, he will be the talk of the league.

[Coconuts]

He's right there imo. Buffalo's admittedly pretty terrible, but we weren't exactly world-beaters going into last season, having missed the playoffs four straight years. Even with the emergence of Brock and Elias over the last couple seasons what Hughes did for this team was revolutionary. Him and Makar were both incredibly dynamic players who made both their teams much more dangerous. 

 

Dahlin's younger though, and should have higher upside than Makar. Quinn and Dahlin are closer in age, but Dahlin has the size you'd ideally want in a #1D. It's easy to forget how good Dahlin's been at such a young age when you have two D jump in and do what they've done in the past season. 

 

 

[canucklehead44]

8 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

I think Dahlin is actually being massively underrated by a lot of fans. Hughes and Makar have made people forget how good this kid is.

 

That said, I would say both Hughes and Makar are both at least as good as Dahlin right now. That said, Dahlin is six months younger than Hughes and 1.5 years younger than Makar, and at this age, those numbers can still be relevant.

What Hughes and Makar did were insane - I think the fact that two rookie defenceman did it in the same year made their individual seasons seem less incredible. I would consider what both accomplished as generational - last rookies to do anything similar was Nicklas Lidstrom, Brian Leetch. 

Dahlin right now is a top end talent who I believe will progress into a generational talent as well. He is ahead of where Hedman was at the same age and Hedman is elite. 

Edited November 11, 2020 by canucklehead44

[D-Money]

16 minutes ago, Ronaldoescobar said:

116-53 were the 1st place votes for ROTY if I’m not mistaken which is quite a bit more than the 50-50 coin flip odds so it literally was not that. I also said QH is a tad below in my opinion. 

Makar had a better regular season. Especially early, when Makar was racking up goals on PP1, while Hughes was on PP2.

 

But it would be hard to suggest from the most recent sample - the playoffs - that either Hughes or Makar are a tier below Dahlin or each other. #1 & #2 in the record books for most points in the playoffs by a rookie defenseman. The sky is the limit for both of them.

 

[-AJ-]

2 minutes ago, canucklehead44 said:

What Hughes and Makar did were insane - I think the fact that two rookie defenceman did it in the same year made their individual seasons seem less incredible. I would consider what both accomplished as generational - last rookies to do anything similar was Nicklas Lidstrom, Brian Leetch. 

Dahlin right now is a top end talent who I believe will progress into a generational talent as well. He is well ahead of Hedman was at the same age and Hedman is elite. 

I'm not sure the quickness to one's prime is a great measure of future success, but regardless, I do agree with much of this. I've always been extremely hesitant to use the term generational, as I reserve it for only the very best, but both Hughes and Makar touched nearly uncharted territory as rookie defensemen last year. I am, however, curious to see if we're just entering a new era of offensive defensemen (akin to the offensive boom of the late 60s) or if Makar and Hughes are alone in their feats.

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Kevin Biestra said:

Are Hughes and Makar not considered superior at this point?

And where Heiskanen?  He’s the one at this point who’s taken off and made some separation from the group - and also the one who I’m pretty sure will actually get the title as the “next Lidstrom” which the Dahlin hype went to before the draft.   
 

All four are awesome, and I couldn’t be happier.   Murphy, Wilson, Lidstrom and Housley re-animated.   Makar, Dahlin, Heiskanen and Hughes - all offer similar yet different things.

Edited November 11, 2020 by IBatch

[cuporbust]

Funny how hughes and Makar also have the same number of votes in each category so far lol

[Ronaldoescobar]

4 minutes ago, IBatch said:

And where Heiskanen?  He’s the one at this point who’s taken off and made some separation from the group - and also the one who I’m pretty sure will actually get the title as the “next Lidstrom” which the Dahlin hype went to before the draft.   
 

All four are awesome, and I couldn’t be happier.   Murphy, Wilson, Lidstrom and Housley re-animated.   Makar, Dahlin, Heiskanen and Hughes - all offer similar yet different things.

Absolutely! We are very lucky as fans to be able to see these guys all come up at pretty much the same time and entertain us for the next 10+ years.