the Hockey News NHLs top 50

[c00kies]

7 minutes ago, Master Mind said:

Surely a typo, but I could see Hutton as the 50th best goaltender.

Haha yeah, I'm sure that's supposed to be Carter Hart.

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, Squamfan said:

he is not even on the list

Sorry sour puss.   Some don’t feel the same way as you do, and it  makes me v smile that experts feel so highly about our team.   But go ahead and keep your convictions ... I’ve watched a lot of Canucks hockey and have only seen a few guys like or as skilled as him ever.  Bure.  Nedved.  Mogilny.  Naslund and the Sedins.   Must be tough for you feeling that bad about our current core.   By that of course QHs or Horvat and by extension Miller and BB don’t make your cut.  And yes I included Nedved, so get that things could go sideways or even backwards.   Doubt they will though. 

Edited December 3, 2020 by IBatch

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, mll said:

Carter Hutton at 50 ?  

Sh!t sorry autocorrect.. it’s Carter Hart 

[IBatch]

23 minutes ago, c00kies said:

Haha yeah, I'm sure that's supposed to be Carter Hart.

Thanks!  Ha ha ... 99% of the stuff I post - ok 100% the last five years or so - is on my phone so any name I’ve ever typed comes up automatically and you are correct.  It’s Carter Hart.    He’s proving his stuff and one of a very select few guys that come in at his age for quite a while.  

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, mll said:

Carter Hutton at 50 ?  

Fixed 

[King Heffy]

59 minutes ago, Monty said:

Not sure if this is serious or not

Better two way guy with none of the character issues.

[IBatch]

54 minutes ago, Master Mind said:

I've been a big fan of Horvat, and probably one of the few who's always thought he's capable of 70 points along with a strong 2 way game. Great to see him on the list, but no way would I put him ahead of Zibanejad right now.

 

EP at 8th is very high at this stage of his career. I hope they're right.

I was more then a little shocked.  That said a lot of “experts” have EP as a guy who is going to run away with the Art Ross one day and can see why.    He has the skill set, just needs a little more strength.  Also has what the most elite guys in the league have which is the constant desire to be the best and get better.   Hard to really know.   Felt Miller was actually a bit of an fail not being on the list but that’s because of his pedigree, and EP definitely already helped with that.    
 

I watched Zibanejad for years before he went to NYR and felt he had more to give.   Now he’s doing it in what should be his prime.   Naslund wasn’t a star either until he was 27, if EP keeps it up can see why some are so high on him. 
 

For me getting 40ish issues of the Hockey News since the 90’s, can say that aside from the 2010 area they’ve never been as high on us as they are right now.   Two of their writers especially so.   Find it interesting.  They weren’t to kind of JB but have changed their tune.   Understandable.  

[-AJ-]

Petey and Horvat got bumps from their playoff runs for sure, though Horvat's always been underrated, so that's nice to see. Petey is actually bordering on overrated for now, but we'll see how he continues.

 

I think it's crazy that Marky didn't make the list at all given he was 4th in Vezina voting.

[IBatch]

33 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

Petey and Horvat got bumps from their playoff runs for sure, though Horvat's always been underrated, so that's nice to see. Petey is actually bordering on overrated for now, but we'll see how he continues.

 

I think it's crazy that Marky didn't make the list at all given he was 4th in Vezina voting.

Me too on Markstrom especially given the metric is what’s going on right now and what they predict for next year.   For sure he’s going to a more experienced and I’d say better team (for now).  Maybe his injuries scuttled it.   They only had six or so goalies on their list as well...and he really should be around where Lehner is ... also maybe they felt losing Brodie and Hamonic wasn’t so good.   Even adding Tanev is a negative gain.    Glad to see Horvat get his due.   An ace in the dot and scoring 10 goals in 17 games will do that (as a second line c). 
 

 

Edit:  When I read the list I was sure I missed Markstrom somewhere.  Went back and didn’t see him the second time through.   Hart in PHI is debatable as well but they sure weren’t kind to goalies overall. 

Edited December 3, 2020 by IBatch

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, Chronic.Canucks.Fan said:

Totally, I think based on only the regular season it would be hard to put EP ahead of Matthews and Eichel juuuust yet. After this next year I don't find it difficult to believe. Same with Kucherov and Marchand who have both hit 100 points. If Petey's playoff performance definitely bumps him up a couple spots then I'd say Kucherov's cup win probably does the same for him lol.

 

Overall this is a pretty good list. Aho is a bit low and Couturier is a bit high.

Couturier is a gem.   And I’m glad he’s getting some recognition.   Aho is getting his due - a little low maybe but Couturier has been doing it for awhile and like Horvat (until this year) doesn’t get much recognition.    I felt Hamilton was the most glaring omission... and maybe Svecknikov as well.   CAR isn’t much different then us - loads of potential - just in the East. 

[Monty]

1 hour ago, King Heffy said:

Better two way guy with none of the character issues.

Two way play is certainly leaning in Horvat'a way, particularly because one is a center and the other a winger.

 

Character issues is pretty non existent, though. Tkachuk would only be a bad character if players on his team, coaches, and management didn't like him. It doesn't matter what other markets, players on other team's, or fans outside of the Calgary market think about him. It's like Marchand, Reaves, Patrick Kane, Duncan Keith, etc. If their teammates like them and the coaches like them, then they don't have character issues.

[PunjabiCanucks]

1.  Mackinnon

2. McDavid

3. Crosby 

4. Panarin 

5. Pastrnak 

6. Draisatl

7. Hedman

8. EP

9. Point

10. Kucherov

11. Marchand

12. Mathews

13. Eichel

14. Kane

15. Ovi

---

McDavid should be 1, Petty 15th.

 

Petey is good, but not above Ovi level yet

[khay]

8 hours ago, IBatch said:

Also think that a decade later both Crosby and Ovi are so awesome.  Ovi is getting a lot of Howe comparisons given his durability and not slowing down one bit so far, and Crosby is making a case for himself to be one of the few players to end up on the Mt Rushmore of guys like Howe, Orr, Gretzky and Mario. 

Without the injuries, Crosby might have joined those guys. I wouldn't put Crosby ahead or even at par with any of those guys at the moment. Still, Crosby is a top 5 player of all time IMO.

 

[ruilin96]

2 hours ago, -AJ- said:

Petey and Horvat got bumps from their playoff runs for sure, though Horvat's always been underrated, so that's nice to see. Petey is actually bordering on overrated for now, but we'll see how he continues.

 

I think it's crazy that Marky didn't make the list at all given he was 4th in Vezina voting.

If Lehner made the list, so should Marky. Imo, Lehner is overrated. His stat with good defensive team vs. bad defensive team is a huge contrast. He is more of a product of his team than him actually being a good goalie. Not a fan of Lehner myself personally.

[rekker]

So promising and bodes well for the future. Exciting times for sure. 

[Bissurnette]

Hedman needs to be in the top 5 for me. My top 5:

 

1. McDavid

2. Mackinnon

3. Ovechkin (a toss up between top 3)

4. Crosby

5. Hedman

 

Ovechkin was on pace for 58 goals over 82 games as a 35 year old in the NHL while hitting anything that moves. How this man was not included in the top 3 let alone top 5 is asinine. It's downright proof of the anti-Russian stance in the NHL.

[IBatch]

26 minutes ago, Vanuckles said:

Hedman needs to be in the top 5 for me. My top 5:

 

1. McDavid

2. Mackinnon

3. Ovechkin (a toss up between top 3)

4. Crosby

5. Hedman

 

Ovechkin was on pace for 58 goals over 82 games as a 35 year old in the NHL while hitting anything that moves. How this man was not included in the top 3 let alone top 5 is asinine. It's downright proof of the anti-Russian stance in the NHL.

C’s and D’s and goalies are usually ranked higher given the importance of their position.  Ovi is awesome, nobody’s saying he isn’t, but the entire game (d and o) is considered when ranking these guys.   It’s why Bure wasn’t a Hart winner late in his career and winning Richard trophies when they were created,  and anyone who watching him play wouldn’t say he should be either.  Kane and Panarin for sure had better seasons as a winger considering their entire game.   Ovi is all about scoring goals and shooting the puck - and can hit and do other things too, but he’s never been considered a complete player.    Why Crosby is considered the better of the two and probably always will.  Even if he retires and Ovi keeps it up and breaks WG record.   
 

Howe comparisons are legitimate for sure.   Howe had his most productive season at 40.   Imagine Ovi scoring 70 in five years.   If he does I will eat my phone.

 

Also 5 x 5 scoring matters.  Ovi’s feasted the same as most of the best have over his career on the man advantage.   It’s been his bread and butter for 15 seasons.   Even still only a few wingers made it in before he did, and one D.   And he was picked before any goalies. 

Edited December 3, 2020 by IBatch

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, ruilin96 said:

If Lehner made the list, so should Marky. Imo, Lehner is overrated. His stat with good defensive team vs. bad defensive team is a huge contrast. He is more of a product of his team than him actually being a good goalie. Not a fan of Lehner myself personally.

Not sure about that.   Like Markstrom he’s turned himself into an elite goalie the last two years and done it on two different teams, including knocking out a fan favourite and still very good MAF.    We saw what Markstrom has managed the last two years - Lehner’s done just as much.     For sure JM cashed in larger so that does say something (until you take taxes into the equation then it’s a lot closer minus the one year and the NMC)....Lehner is a little more under the radar for Vancouver fans but has played at a very high level too.   Maybe health is a consideration.   I was also surprised that JM was left out, especially after seeing Lehner’s name because personally most of what I’ve read about then the Hockey News has them neck and neck.  Both large goalies, both extremely capable and showing that for about the same amount of time.   These rankings are predictive measure’s for next season as well.  Maybe they feel his knee’s and games played are a concern.   Lehner did take over the net in Vegas and got them to the conference final after all (of course behind a much better team)...   Splitting hairs from where I’m sitting.   And really would be happy to have Lehner for 5 x 5... 

[Bissurnette]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

C’s and D’s and goalies are usually ranked higher given the importance of their position.  Ovi is awesome, nobody’s saying he isn’t, but the entire game (d and o) is considered when ranking these guys.   It’s why Bure wasn’t a Hart winner late in his career and winning Richard trophies when they were created,  and anyone who watching him play wouldn’t say he should be either.  Kane and Panarin for sure had better seasons as a winger considering their entire game.   Ovi is all about scoring goals and shooting the puck - and can hit and do other things too, but he’s never been considered a complete player.    Why Crosby is considered the better of the two and probably always will.  Even if he retires and Ovi keeps it up and breaks WG record.   
 

Howe comparisons are legitimate for sure.   Howe had his most productive season at 40.   Imagine Ovi scoring 70 in five years.   If he does I will eat my phone.

 

Also 5 x 5 scoring matters.  Ovi’s feasted the same as most of the best have over his career on the man advantage.   It’s been his bread and butter for 15 seasons.   Even still only a few wingers made it in before he did, and one D.   And he was picked before any goalies. 

And Panarin and Pastrnak are known for their defense? Ovi is the best consistent goal scorer the game has ever seen and he's been doing it for 15 years. There has to be some respect given there. You can put Crosby ahead of Ovi if you want (and over their respective careers, sure I'd probably take Crosby over Ovi), but for this past year I would have taken Ovi over Crosby. They barely squeaked him in at #15 on their list...

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, khay said:

Without the injuries, Crosby might have joined those guys. I wouldn't put Crosby ahead or even at par with any of those guys at the moment. Still, Crosby is a top 5 player of all time IMO.

 

Even without injuries and if he finished two brilliant seasons he started and played all 82 games and scored 130 a couple times he still wouldn’t approach either Orr, Wayne or Mario.    Those guys were just on another level entirely.   When the next best us guys like Stastny, Hawerchuk, Bossy etc and your lapping the remaining guys entirely .... well it makes hyperbole seem understated.  His first decade Wayne Gretzky beat out the second best by over 70 points with regularity.  Kind of unfair really.   Would be like Kucherov or Kane getting 150-160 points today and McDavid getting his 110 points.   More really.   Crosby for sure gets the generational mantle, and so does Ovi for sure.  Special players.   One thing I consider when looking from era to era is tracing it back by how well superstars and stars played against each other in the 20’s compared to the older guys in their 30’s.   It doesn’t take too much work to go way back that way.   Selanne, Federov, Bure, Mogilny, Shanny, Sundin, Sakic, Forsberg, Lindros etc played against Mario, Hawerchuk, Yzerman, Gretzky et al in the 90’s, and against Naslund, Thornton, Iginla, St Louis etc in the 2000’s.   And vice versa.  If a player in his 30’s regardless of position can keep up to turn next crop then you can for sure tell a lot from it.   Not too difficult really to trace it right back to Howes and Hulls days and beyond.