Coronavirus outbreak

[bishopshodan]

3 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

I mean our government has had two years to increase our hospital capacities, hire more nurses and doctors, and support our existing health care workers.

 

They’ve done very little in that regard to the point where nurses are quitting because they’re overwhelmed and they’re having to call in employees that are retired or have Covid.

 

This whole thing is a failure on government. They’ll try to tell you it’s all the unvaccinated peoples fault though. And while they’re not helping they’re hardly the sole reason. Their vaccine plan to get 80% vaccinated didn’t work and they’re looking for scapegoats.

 

I will never agree with someone who is anti vaccine but I will 100% support their freedom to not be forced to be injected with something they don’t want. That is a very slippery slope this society does not need to go down.

 

I would have liked at some point for them to come out and say 'we have to throw ridiculous money into the health care systems'

I know it takes time to train folks up, so let's get crackin'.

 

Keep strong regulations. Ventilation improvement everywhere. Mask technology. Keep researching better treatments.

 

All before mandatory jabs.

[JM_]

1 hour ago, Bure_of_94 said:

Are you saying that you don’t believe in Darwin? 

you're making a believer out of me. 

[DeNiro]

7 minutes ago, JM_ said:

If you want I can provide a lot of info on why two years isn't anything close enough to build up hospital capacity. I do agree tho they dropped the ball on PPE and having our own vaccine production. 

 

I wouldn't agree with holding them down and jabbing them.

 

But I'm just fine with having them live with their choice and wait for health care over others. Even things like hip and knee surgeries, maybe doesn't sound like a big deal but people with degenerative joint disease are getting worse by the day and so our their outcomes. The longer you wait the worse it is for your outcomes, and thats just not fair. Some people are going to really suffer. 

 

 

 

Two years is plenty of time to provide financial and mental health support for health care workers. They’ve been hung out to dry make no mistake. 
 

We’re a G7 country…We have the money and the resources to do alot of things in 2 years. Health Care should have been top priority.

 

I agree with the philosophy of making them wait however we also will never be a country that denies a patient urgent care regardless of their choices.

 

I also don’t understand how sending them to prison would be the answer. The likelihood they catch Covid and need medical care is much higher with the current state of prisons.

 

Again I think it’s government ineptitude that has led us here. It shouldn’t even be a choice of ICU or surgeries. One shouldn’t effect the other in a strong health care system.

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by DeNiro

[JM_]

Just now, DeNiro said:

Two years is plenty of time to provide and financial and emotional support for health care workers. They’ve been hung out to dry make no mistake. 
 

oh on that front for sure. We could have done a lot more for them. 

 

Just now, DeNiro said:

We’re a G7 country…We have the money and the resources to do alot of things in 2 years. Health Care should have been top priority.

agreed, but we needed a runway of about 10 years to be really ready for this. We can at least start now though for the next time. 

 

 

Just now, DeNiro said:

I agree with that philosophy of making them wait however we also will never be a country that denies a patient urgent care regardless of their choices.

 

I also don’t understand how sending them to prison would be the answer. The likelihood they catch Covid and need medical are much higher with the current state of prisons.

 

yeah prison is a dumb idea. Unless someone did something like knowingly walk through a hospital ward or some other weird thing. 

 

Just now, DeNiro said:

 

Again I think it’s government ineptitude that has led us here. It shouldn’t even be a choice of ICU or surgeries. One shouldn’t effect the other in a strong health care system.

We need a massive innovation in how we treat people to be ready for this kind of thing. We should be demanding the gov't be better prepared.

 

But that still doesn't let the anti-vaxxers off the hook imo, they know the harm they are doing.

 

[DeNiro]

4 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

I would have liked at some point for them to come out and say 'we have to throw ridiculous money into the health care systems'

I know it takes time to train folks up, so let's get crackin'.

 

Keep strong regulations. Ventilation improvement everywhere. Mask technology. Keep researching better treatments.

 

All before mandatory jabs.

Not the conversation they want to have because they’ve spent way too much on this pandemic as it is.

 

Much easier to point the finger at the unvaccinated. Classic government misdirection. Divide and conquer.

[DeNiro]

9 minutes ago, JM_ said:

oh on that front for sure. We could have done a lot more for them. 

 

agreed, but we needed a runway of about 10 years to be really ready for this. We can at least start now though for the next time. 

 

 

 

yeah prison is a dumb idea. Unless someone did something like knowingly walk through a hospital ward or some other weird thing. 

 

We need a massive innovation in how we treat people to be ready for this kind of thing. We should be demanding the gov't be better prepared.

 

But that still doesn't let the anti-vaxxers off the hook imo, they know the harm they are doing.

 

Good points. Don’t disagree with any of them.

 

And yea I hope the thing that comes out of this is massive investments in our health care system. Everything from innovation (vaccine research, streamlining care/treatment times), to supporting health care workers financially and with mental health support.

 

There should be no excuses for our health care system to reach the brink of collapse again.

 

As for anti vaxxers being off the hook I don’t really think they are. A lot of them have had to sacrifice jobs, relationships, and the ability to enjoy the new normal life that the rest of us are. Oh and they still risk getting seriously ill. 
 

I don’t think more punishment is necessary. Seems like the government is just mad about their insubordination at this point. If they thought that 100% vaccination was ever possible they’re more out of touch than I thought.

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by DeNiro

[bishopshodan]

4 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Not the conversation they want to have because they’ve spent way too much on this pandemic as it is.

 

Much easier to point the finger at the unvaccinated. Classic government misdirection. Divide and conquer.

Yep.

But in reality they would be setting us up for the future and could sell it as such. I know, I'm dreaming. 

 

It's a new very small world with international travel etc. We will face new super bugs and variants. 

[King Heffy]

We can't afford to keep wasting money on prolonging the antivaxer's lives.  I'm not saying forcibly vax them, but opting out of the social contract of getting vaccinated should be considered opting out of the social contract altogether.  We need to stop catering to these morons.

[DeNiro]

5 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

Yep.

But in reality they would be setting us up for the future and could sell it as such. I know, I'm dreaming. 

 

It's a new very small world with international travel etc. We will face new super bugs and variants. 

It’s as much of a failure of this current government as past governments.

 

The fact that we didn’t even have our own ability to research and develop our own vaccines highlights this. We were at the mercy of big American corporations to get vaccine deliveries. Sad state if you ask me.

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by DeNiro

[DeNiro]

2 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

We can't afford to keep wasting money on prolonging the antivaxer's lives.  I'm not saying forcibly vax them, but opting out of the social contract of getting vaccinated should be considered opting out of the social contract altogether.  We need to stop catering to these morons.

We will never be a country that denies someone medical care, nor should we be.

 

You don’t leave the dying smoker on the side of the curb because they made bad choices do you?

 

Making a bad choice should not cost you your life no matter how ignorant you may be.

[bishopshodan]

1 minute ago, DeNiro said:

It’s as much of a failure of this current government as past governments.

 

The fact that we didn’t even have our own ability to research and develop our own vaccines highlights this. We were at the mercy of big American corporations to get vaccine deliveries. Sad state if you ask me.

 

100%

This pandemic has shown us that we have to be far more self reliant.

This is Canada, we are a top country on the planet. We could start acting like it and defend ourselves from future threats. 

[King Heffy]

2 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

We will never be a country that denies someone medical care, nor should we be.

 

You don’t leave the dying smoker on the side of the curb because they made bad choices do you?

 

Making a bad choice should not cost you your life no matter how ignorant you may be.

We're denying medical care to people who need surgery now thanks to the antivaxxers clogging up the medical system.  This also includes people with cancers; should the antivaxxers have the power to end the lives of people whose brains function properly?  Their choices are affecting everyone else and at some point there will have to be consequences for their complete lack of respect for their community.

[gizmo2337]

I got this from the transcript of today's press conference.  I'm pretty sure she will have to back track her response in about 2 weeks. I foresee a class action lawsuit coming for gross negligence. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogUmqMz6LNM

Question:
Our first question today comes from zhao zhu globe and mail. Hi dr harry uh infestion disease expert at Stanford and uh uh expert at uh UBC have both told us that your guidance earlier this week that n95 mask offer only incremental protection to people instead inside stores or schools is wrong. They said with omnicorn respirators are needed in crowded indoor public settings and a 2010 uh peer review study showed more than three quarters of people putting known uh a respirator for the first time did so properly and provided themselves better protection than what surgical mask do achieve. What do you say to these experts criticizing your stance and are you reconsidering offering students teachers or health workers free and 95 if not why not and minister uh white side the BCTF wants free and 95s for anyone who wants them. Why won't your uh ministry offer this. Thanks.
 

Answer:

So i think we need to put things into perspective and look at wh documents look at what we know about how things are transmitted in public settings so outside of healthcare settings and schools are a very good example. We have many many things in place that make it very unlikely that viruses and other pathogens will be transmitted in schools with the things that we have in place. Now one of the most important things and I would put this back to those experts is about having layers of protection and a hierarchy of protection which means you have things like reduced numbers of people you have things like reducing the mixing and mingling of people. You have the same people going back to a class every day so you're not mixing with numbers of different people at different times you have other things that are important to try and prevent the entrance of a hazard into that setting like the daily screenings we do. So you can't become infected if there's nobody with the virus in the setting so there are many things that we do in these structured settings to make sure that you don't have to rely on the moderately increased filtration capacity of a respirator versus a medical mask and i think we need to be pragmatic and practical as well we know that we're not seeing explosive outbreaks of this virus in those settings where we have these things in place that is a fact and we know that the best mask that you wear is a good quality one that is well fitting to your face and i would just reiterate that's the important thing it's not the mask is is one piece of many prongs that we have in many different settings that protect people from transmission of viruses so it's everything that we do that makes a difference so that you don't have to rely on the increased filtration of a respirator versus a surgical mask and in school settings in the public settings outside of healthcare settings it's much more important that you have a good quality good fitting mask that you wear and that you wear consistently and that you wear correctly.

[4petesake]

10 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

We will never be a country that denies someone medical care, nor should we be.

 

You don’t leave the dying smoker on the side of the curb because they made bad choices do you?

 

Making a bad choice should not cost you your life no matter how ignorant you may be.

We already are a country that denies medical care, we are just too nice to call it for what it is. Delayed medical care (which is happening now) is tantamount to denying care for many.

[gizmo2337]

The really weird part is the NDP is supposed to be aligned with the health care workers and teachers. It's their bread and butter from election perspective. Yet here they are not supporting their own voter base with proper masks in time of greatest need. I hope someone asks at the next press conference if they will at least make masks available for purchase.

[stawns]

1 minute ago, gizmo2337 said:

The really weird part is the NDP is supposed to be aligned with the health care workers and teachers. It's their bread and butter from election perspective. Yet here they are not supporting their own voter base with proper masks in time of greatest need. I hope someone asks at the next press conference if they will at least make masks available for purchase.

Yeah, that's what we thought.......teachers and nurses pretty much got them elected the first time.  Their "commitment to funding education" was BS, plain and the simple.  That said, they are light years better than the Libs

[Alflives]

51 minutes ago, iwtl said:

I.support science and the vaccines

 

I.dont support a general population vaccine mandate. Some occupations such as military,.police and health have always had mandatory vaccine policies and for good reason 

 

BUT

 

We have reached the point that people who by choice are.not vaccinated should accept.that it's their duty to.isolate.to the greatest extent possible as we ride out this wave.

 

Some rolled up their sleeves and it's time.that.those.who can be vaccinated but choose not to now also.do.their part

 

Tired of them.crying it's division. It's not. It's everyone doing their part to end this and everyone respecting the choices others make (.so long as they do their part )

 

We all.want this over and it's very.unfair that we have a group.refusing to.do their part.

 

Those that can't cook do the dishes ..... everyone needs to do their part.

These cult antivaxxer person should have to either get vaccinated or accept they will not get any medically care for Covid.  They’d are such cowards!  Have courage if you’re convictions.  Refuse the vaccine and stay away from hospitals when sick from COvid.  

 

[DeNiro]

28 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

We're denying medical care to people who need surgery now thanks to the antivaxxers clogging up the medical system.  This also includes people with cancers; should the antivaxxers have the power to end the lives of people whose brains function properly?  Their choices are affecting everyone else and at some point there will have to be consequences for their complete lack of respect for their community.

Surgeries and ICU should never effect each other in a strong health care system which was my point.

 

The key words were urgent care though. That’s someone who will certainly die if they’re not treated. Delaying surgeries does not equal certain death.

 

All I’m saying is we’ll never be a country that turns away a patient that is literally dying.

[DeNiro]

30 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

We're denying medical care to people who need surgery now thanks to the antivaxxers clogging up the medical system.  This also includes people with cancers; should the antivaxxers have the power to end the lives of people whose brains function properly?  Their choices are affecting everyone else and at some point there will have to be consequences for their complete lack of respect for their community.

Delaying surgery and turning away people that will die without immediate treatment are two different things.

 

Doctors should never have to make these decisions but they’re usually pretty cut and dry.

 

Emergency surgeries still take priority over Covid patients.

[King Heffy]

Just now, DeNiro said:

Delaying surgery and turning away people that will die without immediate treatment are two different things.

 

Doctors should never have to make these decisions but they’re usually pretty cut and dry.

 

Emergency surgeries still take priority over Covid patients.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/first-person-cancer-treatment-pandemic-delays-isolation-1.6271626