[Speculation] LeBrun: Benning seeking a young top-9 forward for the Canucks

[DeNiro]

44 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Seriously

 

Are people SERIOUSLY suggesting we trade Quinn Hughes?

 

WTF is wrong with some of you

 

Is Barry Pederson available?

 

Yes because we’re just saying trade him for anyone.

 

If we’re gonna build an actual cup contender tough decisions are going to have to be made. That means trading valuable players. It doesn’t matter how many skilled players we have if the makeup of our team doesn’t suit playoff hockey.

 

Im not saying I’ve given up on Hughes or that we have to trade him to win, but it’s obvious there are holes in our roster and a big physical center is one of those holes.

 

Byfield is one of only a few young prospects I would consider a trade for. If he reaches his potential that is a piece that every contender needs. Hughes would be tough to let go but if you can draft another stud top defender I think it makes us much more suited for big boy hockey.

 

Edited February 27, 2021 by DeNiro

[Honky Cat]

11 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

For sure I’m in no way writing off Hughes.

 

Im just saying if we end up with a top 2 pick and they think Power has number 1 D written all over him, it completely changes the conversation.

 

Byfield represents a player that has huge potential and fits the mould of that big power forward center that you win in the playoffs with. Doesn’t matter how many points Hughes puts up if we don’t have centres that can dominate possession in physical playoff matchups.

Last season, QH was one of the best NHL players at zone exits ,completely judging him (and other struggling young core players) on this weird season is asinine.

You can have players like Byfeild in your lineup, but if you cant get the puck out of your own zone. What does it matter?

 

[stawns]

4 minutes ago, Honky Cat said:

Last season, QH was one of the best NHL players at zone exits ,completely judging him (and other struggling young core players) on this weird season is asinine.

You can have players like Byfeild in your lineup, but if you cant get the puck out of your own zone. What does it matter?

 

They've got some good, puck moving dmen coming up in OJ, Rathbone and Woo.  I'd argue that OJ is on par or better than QH for getting the puck out of the zone.

[Devron]

15 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

For sure I’m in no way writing off Hughes.

 

Im just saying if we end up with a top 2 pick and they think Power has number 1 D written all over him, it completely changes the conversation.

 

Byfield represents a player that has huge potential and fits the mould of that big power forward center that you win in the playoffs with. Doesn’t matter how many points Hughes puts up if we don’t have centres that can dominate possession in physical playoff matchups.

Yeah Petey and Horvat did dominate the play offs. We simple lost to a deeper, more experienced, better coached team. If top 2 centers is our issue we are in big big trouble.

 

I paid close attention to Byfield because I drafted him in my fantasy pool. There were so many Canadians better then he was. Now World juniors aren’t always a telling sign I get that. But Byfield is huge and players like that take time. If he does become the type of player he’s projected to be he’s 3-5 years out..  yeah I’m good, this team is we better then they’ve shown. Coaches are accountable for that.

 

What we should be getting excited about is adding to our defence as opposed to subtract to add. Look at Colorado. That defence core is gonna be ridiculous. Keep Hughes, OJ and add another stud in the draft of we indeed continue to tumble. There’s no telling how the season turns out we could be drafting 12th overall for all we know 

[Maginator]

33 minutes ago, stawns said:

if a player like Byfield is available and can be had for a Hughes, you don't think those tires need to be kicked?  Byfield changes this team more than Hughes does, imo.  

Kick the tires all you want, but without Byfield playing an NHL game it's a huge gamble.

 

These boards have been calling for a puck moving, top pairing offensive dman like Quinn Hughes for years. Yeah, hes having a rough year but the whole team is playing like ****.

 

Keep the core (Petey, Hughes, Boeser, Horvat, Demko, Juolevi) and see how we fare in the next 2-4 years with an actual supporting cast. The core is full of softies and needs a big team around them.

 

If at that point it fails- liquify assets.

 

I dont think any of those 6 should go anytime soon though.

[stawns]

1 minute ago, Maginator said:

Kick the tires all you want, but without Byfield playing an NHL game it's a huge gamble.

 

These boards have been calling for a puck moving, top pairing offensive dman like Quinn Hughes for years. Yeah, hes having a rough year but the whole team is playing like ****.

 

Keep the core (Petey, Hughes, Boeser, Horvat, Demko, Juolevi) and see how we fare in the next 2-4 years with an actual supporting cast. The core is full of softies and needs a big team around them.

 

If at that point it fails- liquify assets.

 

I dont think any of those 6 should go anytime soon though.

No doubt he is an elite offensive force, but he's always going to be an adequate defensive player and he's not likely to grow enough to not be out muscled on a nightly basis.

 

Again, this isn't about moving a player who isn't great.  It's about moving a player who is great for a player who might have a greater impact on your club.

 

There's dmen in the org who can do what QH can do and some things QH can't do.  There no one in the org that can bring what Byfield brings to the table.

[Honky Cat]

8 minutes ago, stawns said:

They've got some good, puck moving dmen coming up in OJ, Rathbone and Woo.  I'd argue that OJ is on par or better than QH for getting the puck out of the zone.

"In the case of Hughes, he’s in the 98th percentile for zone exit percentage. When he attempts to move the puck out of the defensive zone, he does so with possession of the puck better than 98% of other NHL defencemen. That’s amazing, but he’s even better at entering the offensive zone with possession: he’s better than 99% of other defencemen, which is basically another way of saying no one else is better.

After Hughes, however, the Canucks’ defence falls sharply.

Myers is the next best puck-mover, but this data overstates how good he was this past season. He was in the 34th percentile for controlled zone exits this past season and 47th percentile for entries. His past prowess in this area gives some hope that he might be able to improve next season.

After Myers, the departed Chris Tanev and Troy Stecher were right around league average. Then we get declining returns from third-pairing defencemen Jordie Benn and Oscar Fantenberg until we reach the most concerning player on the list: Alex Edler.

Edler has traditionally been thought of as a puck-moving defenceman, but that hasn’t really been true for several seasons now. As his game has slowed down, Edler has become much more of an off-the-glass-and-out type of defenceman, safely getting the puck out of the defensive zone, but rarely with possession. As a result, the opposing team gets the puck back and frequently comes right back into the Canucks’ zone." Vancouver is awesome, 2020

https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/canucks-hockey/how-nate-schmidt-narrows-the-gap-between-the-canucks-and-the-nhls-cup-contenders-2799839

 

 

So, how does OJ (who has mobility issues) , and is barely an NHL player beat this?

Edited February 27, 2021 by Honky Cat

[stawns]

1 minute ago, Honky Cat said:

"In the case of Hughes, he’s in the 98th percentile for zone exit percentage. When he attempts to move the puck out of the defensive zone, he does so with possession of the puck better than 98% of other NHL defencemen. That’s amazing, but he’s even better at entering the offensive zone with possession: he’s better than 99% of other defencemen, which is basically another way of saying no one else is better.

After Hughes, however, the Canucks’ defence falls sharply.

Myers is the next best puck-mover, but this data overstates how good he was this past season. He was in the 34th percentile for controlled zone exits this past season and 47th percentile for entries. His past prowess in this area gives some hope that he might be able to improve next season.

After Myers, the departed Chris Tanev and Troy Stecher were right around league average. Then we get declining returns from third-pairing defencemen Jordie Benn and Oscar Fantenberg until we reach the most concerning player on the list: Alex Edler.

Edler has traditionally been thought of as a puck-moving defenceman, but that hasn’t really been true for several seasons now. As his game has slowed down, Edler has become much more of an off-the-glass-and-out type of defenceman, safely getting the puck out of the defensive zone, but rarely with possession. As a result, the opposing team gets the puck back and frequently comes right back into the Canucks’ zone." Vancouver is awesome, 2020

https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/canucks-hockey/how-nate-schmidt-narrows-the-gap-between-the-canucks-and-the-nhls-cup-contenders-2799839

 

 

So, how does OJ (who has mobility issues) , and is barely an NHL player beat this?

Because a pass is always faster than skating. OJ has elite potential passing.

 

Again, as usual, people assume because you think a player is a good chip to play it means you think they aren't great players.  

 

[Warhippy]

50 minutes ago, stawns said:

if a player like Byfield is available and can be had for a Hughes, you don't think those tires need to be kicked?  Byfield changes this team more than Hughes does, imo.  

To clarify.

 

A player like Byfield.  You kick those tires for an unknown player with the ONLY franchise potential norris calibre defenseman we have?
 

You don't use a hoglander ++ or a podkolzin + you use literally the only single near ppg defenseman this team has ever drafted

 

Really?  If that;'s the boot you use to kick tires for essentially a hope I'd hate to see what you think an established player needs to be poked with

[Honky Cat]

22 minutes ago, stawns said:

Because a pass is always faster than skating. OJ has elite potential passing.

 

Again, as usual, people assume because you think a player is a good chip to play it means you think they aren't great players.  

 

The word 'potential' is the elephant in the room , isn it?

 Big stud Jake Virtanen has it in spades.

Edited February 27, 2021 by Honky Cat

[Warhippy]

27 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Yes because we’re just saying trade him for anyone.

 

If we’re gonna build an actual cup contender tough decisions are going to have to be made. That means trading valuable players. It doesn’t matter how many skilled players we have if the makeup of our team doesn’t suit playoff hockey.

 

Im not saying I’ve given up on Hughes or that we have to trade him to win, but it’s obvious there are holes in our roster and a big physical center is one of those holes.

 

Byfield is one of only a few young prospects I would consider a trade for. If he reaches his potential that is a piece that every contender needs. Hughes would be tough to let go but if you can draft another stud top defender I think it makes us much more suited for big boy hockey.

 

Just so we're clear.  Again and this is important.

 

You're saying the single handed reason for an over 8% jump in our PP conversion from 18/19 to 19/20 is the stick you'd use for a guy you HOPE reaches his potential highlighted by an IF 

 

A player who in his second full year is 2 points ahead of every other defenseman for scoring.  in the top 10 for overall scoring and who you assume can simply be drafted, even though after almost 50 years this team has NEVER EVER drafted a defenseman of this calibre; is the boot you use to kick tires for a guy who may or may not ever reach his potential.

 

While we wait 7 years on for a former 6th overall pick to reach his....

 

Just....seriously?

[DeNiro]

5 minutes ago, Honky Cat said:

Last season, QH was one of the best NHL players at zone exits ,completely judging him (and other struggling young core players) on this weird season is asinine.

You can have players like Byfeild in your lineup, but if you cant get the puck out of your own zone. What does it matter?

 

I’m not basing it off this season, I’m basing it off of how our team is built.

 

Playoffs are a whole other level, and if our goal is to win a cup we need a team that can compete in both the regular season and playoffs. It’s obvious even with our limited success last season that there are big weaknesses in our lineup that can be exploited.

 

Again the only way you trade him is if we get a top pick meaning we can get that big stud puck mover that we need.

 

I’m just saying it’s a move you consider if it became an option.

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

To clarify.

 

A player like Byfield.  You kick those tires for an unknown player with the ONLY franchise potential norris calibre defenseman we have?
 

You don't use a hoglander ++ or a podkolzin + you use literally the only single near ppg defenseman this team has ever drafted

 

Really?  If that;'s the boot you use to kick tires for essentially a hope I'd hate to see what you think an established player needs to be poked with

I think the odds of Byfieod not being a dominant can in the league are pretty slim.  Sure, it's a risk, but a pretty small one.

 

There's also a risk that QH will continue to suffer defensively and never be able to generate enough offense to overcome that deficiency.

 

It would be a gamble, but sometimes you've got to take risks to get to the top

 

 

[Warhippy]

4 minutes ago, stawns said:

I think the odds of Byfieod not being a dominant can in the league are pretty slim.  Sure, it's a risk, but a pretty small one.

 

There's also a risk that QH will continue to suffer defensively and never be able to generate enough offense to overcome that deficiency.

 

It would be a gamble, but sometimes you've got to take risks to get to the top

 

 

Well

 

We also still think that about Virtanen.  He just needs to put it together.

 

Only been 7 years.

 

The canucks have a plethora of ppg norris calibre defensemen in their history so we could probably do that ignoring 2013 through 2018s scoring issues on the blue line.  Who doesn't love gambling

 

Because like the Avs coughing up Barrie we have a shot at a makar and Byram in back to back drafts 

Edited February 27, 2021 by Warhippy

[DeNiro]

1 minute ago, Warhippy said:

Just so we're clear.  Again and this is important.

 

You're saying the single handed reason for an over 8% jump in our PP conversion from 18/19 to 19/20 is the stick you'd use for a guy you HOPE reaches his potential highlighted by an IF 

 

A player who in his second full year is 2 points ahead of every other defenseman for scoring.  in the top 10 for overall scoring and who you assume can simply be drafted, even though after almost 50 years this team has NEVER EVER drafted a defenseman of this calibre; is the boot you use to kick tires for a guy who may or may not ever reach his potential.

 

While we wait 7 years on for a former 6th overall pick to reach his....

 

Just....seriously?

You’re assuming that I’m implying that Hughes is not a good player. I haven’t done that in the slightest.

 

You want the reality of acquiring a player like Byfield the cost is Hughes, not a bunch of scraps.

 

Of course it’s a gamble based on potential, lots of trades are. But if the gamble pays off the payout is a top 6 that can complete against the big boys in the playoffs.

 

The fact that we haven’t drafted a player like Hughes is because of incompetent drafting not because of lack of opportunity. If Owen Power is a legit number 1 and we get that pick we then have another player in that number 1 category.

 

This idea that we’re never going to trade one our valuable core pieces on our way to building a contender is not realistic.

[DeNiro]

9 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Well

 

We also still think that about Virtanen.  He just needs to put it together.

 

Only been 7 years.

 

The canucks have a plethora of ppg norris calibre defensemen in their history so we could probably do that ignoring 2013 through 2018s scoring issues on the blue line.  Who doesn't love gambling

 

Because like the Avs coughing up Barrie we have a shot at a makar and Byram in back to back drafts 

The Avs also have Mackinnon.

 

We have to accept the reality that Pettersson might not be able to handle going up against the bigger centres in the league in playoff hockey. Being a winger to a big centerman might allow him to focus more on sniping.

 

On the other side we would have a chance to get a number one center and a number 1 D in one offseason.

Edited February 27, 2021 by DeNiro

[Warhippy]

Just now, DeNiro said:

You’re assuming that I’m implying that Hughes is not a good player. I haven’t done that in the slightest.

 

You want the reality of acquiring a player like Byfield the cost is Hughes, not a bunch of scraps.

 

Of course it’s a gamble based on potential, lots of trades are. But if the gamble pays off the payout is a top 6 that can complete against the big boys in the playoffs.

 

The fact that we haven’t drafted a player like Hughes is because of incompetent drafting not because of lack of opportunity. If Owen Power is a legit number 1 and we get that pick we then have another player in that number 1 category.

 

This idea that we’re never going to trade one our valuable core pieces on our way to building a contender is not realistic.

You're assuming Byfield will be what his draft status and size claim.  You're willing to dangle the only ppg calibre defenseman who single handedly increased our pp conversion by 8%  this team has ever drafted to do it.  For a guy who could EASILY be as much a Bernier as he could a Getzlaf.  Nearly 50 years is not incompetence because in 50 years we've seen maybe 10-12 players like Hughes with that skating and scoring in the entire league.  

 

Let's leave it at that because you'll never see my point and i'll never consider seeing yours knowing we have other items or assets we could trade to facilitate it

[Warhippy]

Just now, DeNiro said:

The Avs also have Mackinnon.

 

We have to accept the reality that Pettersson might not be able to handle going up against the bigger centres in the league in playoff hockey. Being a winger to a big centerman might allow him to focus more on sniping.

 

On the side we would have a chance to get a number one center and a number 1 D in one offseason.

Then let's trade Pettersson for Byfield.

 

Savvy?

[Honky Cat]

11 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

I’m not basing it off this season, I’m basing it off of how our team is built.

 

Playoffs are a whole other level, and if our goal is to win a cup we need a team that can compete in both the regular season and playoffs. It’s obvious even with our limited success last season that there are big weaknesses in our lineup that can be exploited.

 

Again the only way you trade him is if we get a top pick meaning we can get that big stud puck mover that we need.

 

I’m just saying it’s a move you consider if it became an option.

QH is precisely the kind of option that a lot of teams dont have.

You trade him, you'd be in very tough to find a comparable.

 

 

[Warhippy]

1 minute ago, Honky Cat said:

QH is precisely the kind of option that a lot of teams dont have.

You trade him, you'd be in very tough to find a comparable.

 

 

i can see it.  2 years, Byfield struggling...if we had a #1 defenseman we'd be ok.....let's trade Byfield for a #1 defenseman