[Speculation] LeBrun: Benning seeking a young top-9 forward for the Canucks

[Elias Pettersson]

1 minute ago, Boudrias said:

Of course his Dad played for the Canucks so maybe his son has residual warm and fuzzies. I believe Dave coached the WHA Victoria Cougars as well. 

His dad was drafted by the Canucks.  So there is history here.  One problem though is his dad is actually an assistant coach with the Jets now.  So either Adam wants to really hang out with pops every day or maybe he wants to get away from him.

[Elias Pettersson]

6 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Am I missing something about Lowry? Yeah he's big, tough, and he'll be 28 this month, but he's also capped out at 15g and 29 points playing for a pretty talented 16/17 Jets team.. 

 

Two of his last three seasons he's also played 45 and 49 games respectively. And I mean, we've had people fuss about Sutter's inability to stay healthy, do we really wanna give Lowry between 3.5-4m? Is he the guy who plays most of the season or is he a guy who gets hurt? If he truly is a more defensive center he'll probably have other suitors. Won't come cheap. 

You can't compare Lowry to Sutter.  He did play only 45 games one year, last year was 49 but in a shortened season.  He's played every game this year, has 12 points in 24 games and can deliver game changing hits as well as fight heavyweights.  

 

Have you ever seen Sutter destroy Alex Tuch with a hit and then fight Reaves to a draw?  This is exactly what this team is missing right now...

 

 

[JM_]

11 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

His dad was drafted by the Canucks.  So there is history here.  One problem though is his dad is actually an assistant coach with the Jets now.  So either Adam wants to really hang out with pops every day or maybe he wants to get away from him.

ah crap, I didn't know that. Well, that certainly makes a move less likely but I suppose you never know. 

[Coconuts]

30 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I would.... but of course I could be wrong. I just don't see how we make it out of the West without guys like him with a combo of size and skill. I also don't see much in the UFA class that would bring that for us, unless I'm missing someone. 

 

That's fair, but now my question is that if these things are true why would he be available in the first place? He's come up as part of a successful Jets team, you think they'd be inclined to try and retain him if all the above are true. 

20 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

You can't compare Lowry to Sutter.  He did play only 45 games one year, last year was 49 but in a shortened season.  He's played every game this year, has 12 points in 24 games and can deliver game changing hits as well as fight heavyweights.  

 

Have you ever seen Sutter destroy Alex Tuch with a hit and then fight Reaves to a draw?  This is exactly what this team is missing right now...

 

 

Ahh yes, shortened season. My bad.

 

He'd certainly add to the team, but if he's what posters in this thread have mentioned why would Winnipeg let him go? Particularly as a center. 

 

Winnipeg loves to have a big team that comes at you in waves mixed with some skill, he's your prototypical Jet. 

Edited March 9, 2021 by Coconuts

[Provost]

35 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Lowry currently has more points than Tierney in less games.  He's bigger, meaner, more physical and can drop the gloves with actual heavyweights.  He beat up Nurse and fought Reaves to a draw.  We don't currently have anyone that can fight a Reaves and survive to tell about it.

 

Tierney isn't even available and if he was he's cost assets.  Lowry would be free.  You'd have to overpay to get him but Benning needs to take a risk here.  Most of the bad contracts will be off the books by end of next year so it may be worth it to overpay for a guy that fills a huge need on the team.  Lowry could take over at 4C in a couple years when Beagle is gone as well, so as he gets older he can transition to the 4th line.  

 

Sure you can get big mean wingers for league minimum.  But is a Matt Martin really going to help you in the playoffs?  Lowry can actually take draws and is good defensively and can still skate well for a big man.  He'd be a perfect fit in Vancouver.

Has there ever been an Ottawa player who isn't available?

Lowry is currently playing for one of the better teams in the league and with great linemates... Tierney is not.  Go look at their career numbers for their output.

If you were arguing that we needed to find a player "like" Lowry, sure.  Overpaying for Lowry (who may or may not ever become available either) makes him not "free".  Cap space is probably the scarcest commodity we have.  Especially when we have to sign your new contract extension and still somehow figure out a way to pay Eriksson.

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

That's fair, but now my question is that if these things are true why would he be available in the first place? He's come up as part of a successful Jets team, you think they'd be inclined to try and retain him if all the above are true. 

Ahh yes, shortened season. My bad.

 

He'd certainly add to the team, but if he's what posters in this thread have mentioned why would Winnipeg let him go? Particularly as a center. 

 

Winnipeg loves to have a big team that comes at you in waves mixed with some skill, he's your prototypical Jet. 

WPG lets him go in the same way they let 1/2 of their d group go, they simply didn't want to pay out as much term or $. Whats that magic #? who the heck knows. I'd just like this or something like it to happen for us.

 

4 minutes ago, Provost said:

Has there ever been an Ottawa player who isn't available?

Lowry is currently playing for one of the better teams in the league and with great linemates... Tierney is not.  Go look at their career numbers for their output.

If you were arguing that we needed to find a player "like" Lowry, sure.  Overpaying for Lowry (who may or may not ever become available either) makes him not "free".  Cap space is probably the scarcest commodity we have.  Especially when we have to sign your new contract extension and still somehow figure out a way to pay Eriksson.

buy out Loui, use the 2m for 1/2 of Lowry's next deal. Put Rous in the AHL and there's another 1.025. 

 

So I'd ask you this: in just the UFA group, who's a better fit at 3C for us? 

[Elias Pettersson]

7 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

That's fair, but now my question is that if these things are true why would he be available in the first place? He's come up as part of a successful Jets team, you think they'd be inclined to try and retain him if all the above are true. 

Ahh yes, shortened season. My bad.

 

He'd certainly add to the team, but if he's what posters in this thread have mentioned why would Winnipeg let him go? Particularly as a center. 

 

Winnipeg loves to have a big team that comes at you in waves mixed with some skill, he's your prototypical Jet. 

He is going to be a UFA.  Winnipeg may very well keep him and sign him early.  But he technically will be free to sign with any team in the league in 4 months.

[Elias Pettersson]

8 minutes ago, Provost said:

Has there ever been an Ottawa player who isn't available?

Lowry is currently playing for one of the better teams in the league and with great linemates... Tierney is not.  Go look at their career numbers for their output.

If you were arguing that we needed to find a player "like" Lowry, sure.  Overpaying for Lowry (who may or may not ever become available either) makes him not "free".  Cap space is probably the scarcest commodity we have.  Especially when we have to sign your new contract extension and still somehow figure out a way to pay Eriksson.

We will have tons of cap space after next year.  Petey and Hughes aren't signing $10 million deals.  They will sign bridge deals in the $6-7 million range.  We can buy out Holtby and save $3.8 million right there.  I'd rather sign Lowry then keep Edler.  Tierney would be a nice addition but Lowry brings more to the table that the Canucks actually need.

[Coconuts]

8 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

WPG lets him go in the same way they let 1/2 of their d group go, they simply didn't want to pay out as much term or $. Whats that magic #? who the heck knows. I'd just like this or something like it to happen for us.

 

buy out Loui, use the 2m for 1/2 of Lowry's next deal. Put Rous in the AHL and there's another 1.025. 

 

So I'd ask you this: in just the UFA group, who's a better fit at 3C for us? 

That's fair, wanting something to happen for this team is totally understandable. My take is that if Winnipeg still views themselves as a team that can contend, they won't. I see them being more prepared to walk away from 33 Perreault at 4mish than soon to be 28 year old Lowry, particularly given how Perreault is a winger. 

5 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

He is going to be a UFA.  Winnipeg may very well keep him and sign him early.  But he technically will be free to sign with any team in the league in 4 months.

He'll be a ufa, but I'll be surprised if he's not retained if he's the player people have said he is. Particularly because I'm not sure Stastny will be back given the acquisition of Dubois. 

[oldnews]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Lowry currently has more points than Tierney in less games.  He's bigger, meaner, more physical and can drop the gloves with actual heavyweights.  He beat up Nurse and fought Reaves to a draw.  We don't currently have anyone that can fight a Reaves and survive to tell about it.

 

Tierney isn't even available and if he was he's cost assets.  Lowry would be free.  You'd have to overpay to get him but Benning needs to take a risk here.  Most of the bad contracts will be off the books by end of next year so it may be worth it to overpay for a guy that fills a huge need on the team.  Lowry could take over at 4C in a couple years when Beagle is gone as well, so as he gets older he can transition to the 4th line.  

 

Sure you can get big mean wingers for league minimum.  But is a Matt Martin really going to help you in the playoffs?  Lowry can actually take draws and is good defensively and can still skate well for a big man.  He'd be a perfect fit in Vancouver.

I love Lowry as a target in UFA.

But he's not a 4C succession plan - he'd step into Sutter's role, particularly if they intend and/or are able to deal Sutter at the deadline, and don't re-sign Sutter to a discounted deal this offseason.   Lowry plays 16 minutes a game - and would likely just stay where he is if the prospective role is to take over as 3C in a few years (that's a step back for him).

Agree with you - regarding no interest in Tierney - for a number of reasons.

If the Canucks are looking to spend assets to acquire a Senator - it should not be Tierney - it should be Nick Paul.

Paul is a 1.35 million - as opposed to 3.5 million cap hit.

He's a better faceoff guy than Tierney - 54.4% vs 47.2%.

And he's far more physical than Tierney - 30 hits vs 7.  I too would like more heaviness in the bottom 6, as opposed to less (or at least sustain it).

Would far rather target a player like Paul...

Sutter is also a better faceoff guy than Tierney (Sutter getting back to his healthy self - is 54.8% in the faceoff circle (and a better defensive forward imo).   Re-signing Sutter at half to two thirds his present cap hit, or pursuing Lowry -  makes more sense than wasting assets on a Tierney imo.

 

 

 

[JM_]

19 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

That's fair, wanting something to happen for this team is totally understandable. My take is that if Winnipeg still views themselves as a team that can contend, they won't. I see them being more prepared to walk away from 33 Perreault at 4mish than soon to be 28 year old Lowry, particularly given how Perreault is a winger. 

He'll be a ufa, but I'll be surprised if he's not retained if he's the player people have said he is. Particularly because I'm not sure Stastny will be back given the acquisition of Dubois. 

you're probably right, they likely do keep Lowry given how many aging players are done after this year and cap they have coming off the books. Its also not easy for the 'peg to attract UFAs so if there is a will for him to stay they probably get something done. But Chevy has let players walk too. 

 

I wouldn't want to pay Lowry some ridiculous number, but if they were't willing to go 4 mil AAV given our C and size/toughness needs and ELC wingers I'd be happy to see it here. 

[oldnews]

Great to see both the young bottom 9 guys getting a break from their struggles.

That Gaudette goal must be a huge sigh of relief for him.

And that's two of the past three games where Virtanen and Gaudette have provided the secondary scoring that lead to victories against a pair of the better teams in the division.  I thought Gaudette's play without the puck has remained problematic - but he's had his moments there too, most notably a late game board battle where he engaged Tavares at a critical time and won possession, leading to a timely clear.  If he can apply himself without the puck with the kind of enthusiasm he has when he's carrying it - he could made a solid third line winger/secondary scorer yet.

[Provost]

8 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

We will have tons of cap space after next year.  Petey and Hughes aren't signing $10 million deals.  They will sign bridge deals in the $6-7 million range.  We can buy out Holtby and save $3.8 million right there.  I'd rather sign Lowry then keep Edler.  Tierney would be a nice addition but Lowry brings more to the table that the Canucks actually need.

We actually don't have tons of cap space after next year.  That is a myth that folks have bought into.

2021 Offseason - Sign Hughes, Petterson, and Demko to bridge deals.. probably conservatively in the 3 year range totalling $17 million for the 3 of them give or take a couple million?  That will leave us with around $4.5-5.0 million to sign 8-9 more players and only have 3 defence signed (assuming we push the current pro-rated ELC bonuses into next year).  So buyouts or trades have to happen just to get to the cap there, no signing 3rd line centres to $3.5 million or more.

2022 Offseason - Extend Boeser for almost a $2 million raise.  Motte if he is still here gets a pretty big bump so there goes one of our few efficient contracts.  This year we do have a little space (and a lot of holes to fill), but we can't spend that money on any players with term because we have huge bills for extensions coming up and no expectation of the cap rising for several years with the way they did the formula.

2023 Offseason - Extend Horvat and Miller who will be in line for pretty decent raises.  Hoglander will roll off his ELC so if he is a top 6, then there is several million more to him

2024 - Uhoh, those bridge deals for our best players is suddenly due.  Maybe an extra $6-8 million in raises between the three of them?  If we space out when these contracts come due, we have to pay more up front on the bridge deals for the extra years.

As money rolls off for veteran contracts, we owe raises to offset that AND have to sign other players to fill those roster spots.  The only cap savings is going to be to try to find cheap replacement players.  We don't have a lot in the pipeline and guys like Hoglander and Podkolzin roll off their ELCs really quickly and get paid.
 

[Coconuts]

1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said:

you're probably right, they likely do keep Lowry given how many aging players are done after this year and cap they have coming off the books. Its also not easy for the 'peg to attract UFAs so if there is a will for him to stay they probably get something done. But Chevy has let players walk too. 

 

I wouldn't want to pay Lowry some ridiculous number, but if they were't willing to go 4 mil AAV given our C and size/toughness needs and ELC wingers I'd be happy to see it here. 

Chevy's tough to predict, but if there's any willingness for him to stay I agree that Winnipeg likely keeps him.

 

As for who we plug into our third line spot, that's tough. Sutter on a cheaper deal is an option if it looks like we might miss out on other targets, but he doesn't provide the toughness some fans would like in that role. 

 

I've mentioned Pearson in the past being someone to maybe retain, but when I look at our cap structure over the next few seasons we might be better off letting him go. With Hughes and Petey being due for raises and Boeser, Horvat, and Miller being due over the next few seasons we've gotta be mindful with how we commit cap. We need a good 3c, that's a must. But wingers are easier to replace. 

 

I think our significant offseason moves likely look like plugging the 3c spot, letting Pearson to retain Hamonic, either buying out or trading Loui to free up cap, and re-signing Petey, Demko, and Hughes. I see Edler and maybe some of our rfa's being retained, but otherwise filling spots internally. I think anyone expecting significant moves will be disappointed. 

 

Our top six next season could very well look like Boeser, Horvat, Miller, and Horvat with some combination of Hoglander, Podkolzin, Gaudette, or Virtanen. Of course, guys could be moved in or out, but with our important pieces being due for raises we'll need to plug holes with cost effective players. 

1 hour ago, Provost said:

We actually don't have tons of cap space after next year.  That is a myth that folks have bought into.

2021 Offseason - Sign Hughes, Petterson, and Demko to bridge deals.. probably conservatively in the 3 year range totalling $17 million for the 3 of them give or take a couple million?  That will leave us with around $4.5-5.0 million to sign 8-9 more players and only have 3 defence signed (assuming we push the current pro-rated ELC bonuses into next year).  So buyouts or trades have to happen just to get to the cap there, no signing 3rd line centres to $3.5 million or more.

2022 Offseason - Extend Boeser for almost a $2 million raise.  Motte if he is still here gets a pretty big bump so there goes one of our few efficient contracts.  This year we do have a little space (and a lot of holes to fill), but we can't spend that money on any players with term because we have huge bills for extensions coming up and no expectation of the cap rising for several years with the way they did the formula.

2023 Offseason - Extend Horvat and Miller who will be in line for pretty decent raises.  Hoglander will roll off his ELC so if he is a top 6, then there is several million more to him

2024 - Uhoh, those bridge deals for our best players is suddenly due.  Maybe an extra $6-8 million in raises between the three of them?  If we space out when these contracts come due, we have to pay more up front on the bridge deals for the extra years.

As money rolls off for veteran contracts, we owe raises to offset that AND have to sign other players to fill those roster spots.  The only cap savings is going to be to try to find cheap replacement players.  We don't have a lot in the pipeline and guys like Hoglander and Podkolzin roll off their ELCs really quickly and get paid.
 

Def some cap concerns to look forward to, things will get interesting after we can lock our core in, but that's a few years out. 

 

I wonder how Miller will be viewed at age 30, he's a bit older than the rest of our top guys right now. 

Edited March 9, 2021 by Coconuts

[JM_]

14 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Chevy's tough to predict, but if there's any willingness for him to stay I agree that Winnipeg likely keeps him.

 

As for who we plug into our third line spot, that's tough. Sutter on a cheaper deal is an option if it looks like we might miss out on other targets, but he doesn't provide the toughness some fans would like in that role. 

 

I've mentioned Pearson in the past being someone to maybe retain, but when I look at our cap structure over the next few seasons we might be better off letting him go. With Hughes and Petey being due for raises and Boeser, Horvat, and Miller being due over the next few seasons we've gotta be mindful with how we commit cap. We need a good 3c, that's a must. But wingers are easier to replace. 

 

I think our significant offseason moves likely look like plugging the 3c spot, letting Pearson to retain Hamonic, either buying out or trading Loui to free up cap, and re-signing Petey, Demko, and Hughes. I see Edler and maybe some of our rfa's being retained, but otherwise filling spots internally. I think anyone expecting significant moves will be disappointed. 

 

Our top six next season could very well look like Boeser, Horvat, Miller, and Horvat with some combination of Hoglander, Podkolzin, Gaudette, or Virtanen. Of course, guys could be moved in or out, but with our important pieces being due for raises we'll need to plug holes with cost effective players. 

Def some cap concerns to look forward to, things will get interesting after we can lock our core in, but that's a few years out. 

 

I wonder how Miller will be viewed at age 30, he's a bit older than the rest of our top guys right now. 

Sutter is tough to play against, but yeah he isn't that "tough" player that has a physical deterrent element. 

 

It will be an interesting offseason, yet again. 

[Coconuts]

12 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

Sutter is tough to play against, but yeah he isn't that "tough" player that has a physical deterrent element. 

 

It will be an interesting offseason, yet again. 

He's not, but that ain't the end of the world tbh. It's easier to insert that kind of toughness on the wing, as wingers are much easier to find. 

 

I understand wanting to beef up the bottom six a bit, but it doesn't have to be at center. Moving on from the likes of a Virtanen, Gaudette, Hawryluk, Roussel, Pearson, ect would open up space. Someone would probably take Roussel at 50% retained. 

 

The question is, if you aren't switching toughness in for Sutter at center what are you sacrificing to insert it on the wing? 

 

The only surefire bottom six players I see here next season are Motte, Beagle, and Mac. And Mac only because he's under contract for next season already. 

 

Hawryluk looks good, but does he really bring something that much different than Motte? Do we need them both? Mac has size and promise, but is he a long-term asset? Is Jake going to be effective in a third line role? Can Gaudette be more consistent with and without the puck? Can Rouss bounce back? Will Pearson produce? 

 

Plenty of tough questions going forward. 

Edited March 9, 2021 by Coconuts

[JM_]

8 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

He's not, but that ain't the end of the world tbh. It's easier to insert that kind of toughness on the wing, as wingers are much easier to find. 

 

I understand wanting to beef up the bottom six a bit, but it doesn't have to be at center. Moving on from the likes of a Virtanen, Gaudette, Hawryluk, Roussel, Pearson, ect would open up space. Someone would probably take Roussel at 50% retained. 

 

The question is, if you aren't switching toughness in for Sutter at center what are you sacrificing to insert it on the wing? 

exactly, its going to come from somewhere. Thats why I'm high on Lowry, with the mix of toughness and skill. There are other guys I'd like to see Jim trade for but thats also going to cost a lot assuming they are even available - e..g. Boone Jenner is another guy I'd like to see here, but what does it cost us? too much probably

 

8 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

The only surefire bottom six players I see here next season are Motte, Beagle, and Mac. And Mac only because he's under contract for next season already. 

 

Hawryluk looks good, but does he really bring something that much different than Motte? Do we need them both? Mac has size and promise, but is he a long-term asset? Is Jake going to be effective in a third line role? Can Gaudette be more consistent with and without the puck? Can Rouss bounce back? Will Pearson produce? 

 

Plenty of tough questions going forward. 

 

[DefCon1]

42 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

Sutter is tough to play against, but yeah he isn't that "tough" player that has a physical deterrent element. 

 

It will be an interesting offseason, yet again. 

I rather sign someone else, sutter is not worth more than a million at this stage. Love to get someone like coleman.

[Coconuts]

25 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

exactly, its going to come from somewhere. Thats why I'm high on Lowry, with the mix of toughness and skill. There are other guys I'd like to see Jim trade for but thats also going to cost a lot assuming they are even available - e..g. Boone Jenner is another guy I'd like to see here, but what does it cost us? too much probably

 

 

I get the appeal, they're just tough players to find. Centers are valuable. 

 

Boone Jenner would be neat, but given that he's due for a new contract at the end of next season it'd just be kicking the problem down the road even if he was acquired.

 

After poking through capgeek I've noticed there aren't really many players in the vein of a defensive center who look like they'll be hitting the open market this offseason. If you wanted a stopgap you could always try bringing Brad Richardson back cheap, but he's 36.. 

 

Nick Paul would have to be traded for, but he wouldn't be a bad acquisition. I see him being someone Ottawa wants to keep though.

 

We very well could see Sutter come back.

Edited March 9, 2021 by Coconuts

[Coconuts]

6 minutes ago, DefCon1 said:

I rather sign someone else, sutter is not worth more than a million at this stage. Love to get someone like coleman.

 Blake Coleman? Isn't he a winger?