Seven years without a clear plan from Canucks brass.

[IBatch]

6 minutes ago, DSVII said:

(Jake can represent the 6th overall pick)

 

Yes and Keenan is a dog.  But gave us Bertuzzi and H Sedin.   

 

MG left the next manager with the toughest era in Canucks history to manage.     Re-tooling was the only path...clauses matter and no UFA will consider a team that breaks a bunch of those it's not a video game.  

 

Don't forget Hutton.   

Edited May 14, 2021 by IBatch

[knucklehead91]

1 hour ago, vannuck59 said:

First of all you dont know what your talking about

 

First by keeping Tanev and Toffoli you would have made the playoffs and no ,Tanev contract he is not overpaid the reason why Calgary didn't make the playoffs is because they could not score. 

Markstrom could have been signed and aggressive GM would have and traded Demco for a good player ether top 6 or top 3 D . You would not have had Holtby  Schmidt or Virtanen and By the way they played I say not missing much . Hughes would have had a better year we would have been in the playoffs and could have moved assets as necessary next year. Markstrom' s contract maybe one year too long but there are lots of goalies playing into their mid 30s

The goal is to what are we teaching our young stars by getting hammered every game. 

JB should have been fired but the owner had his finger prints all over this the wanted to bring in OEL with a cap hit of  8.25 Mil thats like Tanev and Toffoli put together . Dim Jim a shinny new toy. Keeping what they had and adding Harmonic would have been the right thing to do. 

Okay ya lets lock up 3 aging players. Toffoli, Marky and Tanev. Why dont we bring back Radim the dream Vrbata while we are at it??? Then lets give away up and coming star goaltender “Demco” f**k it lets throw Pettersson in with him and Get Jamie Benn bro. You are delusional 

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, knucklehead91 said:

2018 was the end of the Sedin saga. 2018-19 was the first year with out them and the first year of the rebuild. IF YOU CANNOT FIGURE THAT OUT you are beyond help. I may not be able to comprehend YOU and the sh*t you make up as you go and you CERTAINLY cannot comprehend hockey if you cannot see that 2018-19 was the first year of the rebuild. Stick to basketball, you might actually know something.

 

GILLIS LEFT BENNING WITH NOTHING. PAY ATTENTION

Well he did leave us a gigantic pile of sh!t.     Six years of drafting, only one first traded.   Left us with Hutton and Horvat.   The fact that the best team we've ever had, gave us all of Sutter, Markstrom and Horvat plus Hutton is a total disgrace.   Most of that is on MG.   Can't blame him for trying.   But he also wasted his cap savings from those clauses on Booth and Ballard.    A monkey could have done his job, why he doesn't have another one. 

[wallstreetamigo]

2 hours ago, knucklehead91 said:

2018 was the end of the Sedin saga. 2018-19 was the first year with out them and the first year of the rebuild. IF YOU CANNOT FIGURE THAT OUT you are beyond help. I may not be able to comprehend YOU and the sh*t you make up as you go and you CERTAINLY cannot comprehend hockey if you cannot see that 2018-19 was the first year of the rebuild. Stick to basketball, you might actually know something.

 

GILLIS LEFT BENNING WITH NOTHING. PAY ATTENTION

Lol Benning took over several years before that. He handcuffed himself more than Gillis did by that point. And has further handcuffed himself since then.

 

Gillis left Benning a team that had gotten to game 7 of the SCF a few years prior. It needed to be rebuilt from the start as many people were saying at the time. But Aquilini and Benning put playoff revenue and giving the Sedins another playoff chance ahead of the rest of the team, its fans, and in many ways its future. That was a choice they made, not Gillis.

 

Honestly bud, your lameattempts to blame everyone but Benning for the $&!#ty results and sub par team he has built is interesting.

 

At what pojnt after 7 years does Benning bear any responsibility for the $&!# show he created?

[knucklehead91]

56 minutes ago, Tom Sestito said:

The average "value" of the defense and goaltending that Benning inherited was higher than what Benning is leaving the next GM. 

 

That's incredibly sad to say after a six year run that has seen us unintentionally tank to high draft picks repeatedly. 

 

Hughes is literally one of the worst players at preventing opponent offense in the entire league. 

 

 

Strongly disagree. Rathbone, Juolevi, Myers Hughes will be better than what Benning walked into. He walked into the end of an era. He would be leaving the next era of Canucks defence and forwards behind.. Benning walked into an aged and stale core, with no prospects in sight. 
 

I want to stop you on the Hughes complaints. This has been an atrocity of a season for the team, his second year in the league and new dpartners. It is not fair to use this year to gauge any players performance. There are so many variables this year compared to a normal year

[Fred65]

5 minutes ago, knucklehead91 said:

Strongly disagree. Rathbone, Juolevi, Myers Hughes will be better than what Benning walked into. He walked into the end of an era. He would be leaving the next era of Canucks defence and forwards behind.. Benning walked into an aged and stale core, with no prospects in sight. 
 

I want to stop you on the Hughes complaints. This has been an atrocity of a season for the team, his second year in the league and new dpartners. It is not fair to use this year to gauge any players performance. There are so many variables this year compared to a normal year

This isn't a Vcr alone league, every team has problems with rookies/young players and lots of teams had rookies playing this season, heck we had Hoglender. But that aside the question must be asked can we expect better defense from QH next season

[knucklehead91]

6 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Lol Benning took over several years before that. He handcuffed himself more than Gillis did by that point. And has further handcuffed himself since then.

 

Gillis left Benning a team that had gotten to game 7 of the SCF a few years prior. It needed to be rebuilt from the start as many people were saying at the time. But Aquilini and Benning put playoff revenue and giving the Sedins another playoff chance ahead of the rest of the team, its fans, and in many ways its future. That was a choice they made, not Gillis.

 

Honestly bud, your lameattempts to blame everyone but Benning for the $&!#ty results and sub par team he has built is interesting.

 

At what pojnt after 7 years does Benning bear any responsibility for the $&!# show he created?

Still hangin on to 2011 i see.. LOL no wonder why you are so f**ked in the head

Gillis left Benning with only Bo Horvat and an aged core. 

Hard to play poker when the dealer doesnt dish you some cards. 
 

Benning worked to give the Sedins a cup out of respect for the Sedins he was not going to put them through a rebuild. THAT IS RESPECT. 

The sh*t started with extremely poor drafting,  nearly zero prospects and the hung onto dreams of 2011. 
 

2018 the ground work started, 2019-20 was a glimpse 2020-21 was a reality check.

[knucklehead91]

2 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

This isn't a Vcr alone league, every team has problems with rookies/young players and lots of teams had rookies playing this season, heck we had Hoglender. But that aside the question must be asked can we expect better defense from QH next season

I know its not a Vancouver only problem. However we DID have the WORST scheduling out of all teams to start the year. We had 6-8 more games played than every other team in the league by the time we got our first break. We got decimated with COVID, missed a month and then got jammed with 19 games in 30 days. Thats absolutely insane. That 100% did f**k up a lot for us.

 

Prior to COVID we were one of the hottest teams in the league over a 15 game stretch. We derailed after COVID

[wallstreetamigo]

4 minutes ago, knucklehead91 said:

Strongly disagree. Rathbone, Juolevi, Myers Hughes will be better than what Benning walked into. He walked into the end of an era. He would be leaving the next era of Canucks defence and forwards behind.. Benning walked into an aged and stale core, with no prospects in sight. 
 

I want to stop you on the Hughes complaints. This has been an atrocity of a season for the team, his second year in the league and new dpartners. It is not fair to use this year to gauge any players performance. There are so many variables this year compared to a normal year

Every year there is some new reason that this is not the year to gauge Benning or Green or lackluster veteran players or rookies. Its all excuses all the time with this team. Hughes has been consistently terrible defensively this year. The criticism is valid and he would probably tell you that himself.

 

Every other team dealt with a huge adjustment this year. Did they have covid? Not to the degree the Canucks did but thats management and coaching responsibility. They let a guy practice while awaiting a covid test result. It was completely self inflicted.

 

Benning talks about creating a winning culture but if there is one thing he has completely failed at, that would be it. This management and coaching group, starting from the top down, foster a losing culture. Its easy to identify. Losers make excuses. Injuries, covid, ran out of time, etc. Winners just do what needs to be done and accept responsibility when things go sideways. They stick to their long term plan but adjust for current reality. Benning and the Canucks just make excuses and flail from one mistake to the next or stick with failed strategies.

 

Green is no different. He does the same thing with his lineup over and over. Plugs in the top 6. Vets he magically relies on even whdn they are playing terribly.

[knucklehead91]

43 minutes ago, DSVII said:

(Jake can represent the 6th overall pick)

 

Dude he left us with barely anything, go look at the prospects we “had” and his drafting record.

 

Horvat was the only good thing to come of his drafting. We have actually had sh*t drafting since 2006. Bennings drafting is far superior, drafting is HOW you build a cup contending team. Trading/FA signings are where you go all in. It was Burke’s drafting that led to the 2011 run. Not Nonis and not Gillis. It was their trades that put us into the win-now mode.

 

Bennings drafting in 3 years time from today will be our window to win. Strictly due to his drafting, he will make better trades that are hockey trades and not desperation trades to fill a hole or shelter a player.

[wallstreetamigo]

7 minutes ago, knucklehead91 said:

Still hangin on to 2011 i see.. LOL no wonder why you are so f**ked in the head

Gillis left Benning with only Bo Horvat and an aged core. 

Hard to play poker when the dealer doesnt dish you some cards. 
 

Benning worked to give the Sedins a cup out of respect for the Sedins he was not going to put them through a rebuild. THAT IS RESPECT. 

The sh*t started with extremely poor drafting,  nearly zero prospects and the hung onto dreams of 2011. 
 

2018 the ground work started, 2019-20 was a glimpse 2020-21 was a reality check.

I let go of 2011 the minute the cup final ended bud. The team was mentally broken and the next few 1st round losses only hammered home the point they would not recover and go on another run.

 

The Sedins could have chased a cup elsewhere too. Not doing what needed to be done out of "respect" for two players, no matter how great, is a terrible management strategy. 

 

Gillis hung on too long but that doesnt excuse Benning. He held on even longer after that. The team should have been blown up before Benning even got here. Thats just reality. But he has compounded that mistake since.

 

You dont sign Roussel, Beagle, Schaller, Myers, Sutter, etc. to those contracts during a rebuild. Maybe one of them or two, but not a whole bunch of them. Not for 4-6 years with trade protection. Those contracts tell you exactly what Benning was thinking. That those were "foubdational players" that would help them be a playoff team. Its never actually been anythibg but an accidental rebuild. Its been a bunch of bad retooling decisions that turned into high picks because it didnt work and the team sucked. Lets call a spade a spade here. 

[wallstreetamigo]

1 minute ago, knucklehead91 said:

Dude he left us with barely anything, go look at the prospects we “had” and his drafting record.

 

Horvat was the only good thing to come of his drafting. We have actually had sh*t drafting since 2006. Bennings drafting is far superior, drafting is HOW you build a cup contending team. Trading/FA signings are where you go all in. It was Burke’s drafting that led to the 2011 run. Not Nonis and not Gillis. It was their trades that put us into the win-now mode.

 

Bennings drafting in 3 years time from today will be our window to win. Strictly due to his drafting, he will make better trades that are hockey trades and not desperation trades to fill a hole or shelter a player.

Then explain the Miller, Schmidt, Toffoli trades? And all the terrible free agent signings?

 

Benning has tried multiple times to go all in. It just never works.

[knucklehead91]

Just now, wallstreetamigo said:

I let go of 2011 the minute the cup final ended bud. The team was mentally broken and the next few 1st round losses only hammered home the point they would not recover and go on another run.

 

The Sedins could have chased a cup elsewhere too. Not doing what needed to be done out of "respect" for two players, no matter how great, is a terrible management strategy. 

 

Gillis hung on too long but that doesnt excuse Benning. He held on even longer after that. The team should have been blown up before Benning even got here. Thats just reality. But he has compounded that mistake since.

 

You dont sign Roussel, Beagle, Schaller, Myers, Sutter, etc. to those contracts during a rebuild. Maybe one of them or two, but not a whole bunch of them. Not for 4-6 years with trade protection. Those contracts tell you exactly what Benning was thinking. That those were "foubdational players" that would help them be a playoff team. Its never actually been anythibg but an accidental rebuild. Its been a bunch of bad retooling decisions that turned into high picks because it didnt work and the team sucked. Lets call a spade a spade here. 

Do you comprehend respect? Gillis should have started changing things in 2012. We kept the same roster virtually while LAK made tons of moves and improved and then dummied us and everyone in their path.

 

its not an accidental rebuild. The rebuild started after the Sedins hung it up. I respect Benning for trying everything he could to win the Sedins a cup. It wasnt about Vancouver, it was about two of the best players we have witnessed play for the Canucks. He tried to do it for them, hence why the day they retired he blew it up

[wallstreetamigo]

9 minutes ago, knucklehead91 said:

Do you comprehend respect? Gillis should have started changing things in 2012. We kept the same roster virtually while LAK made tons of moves and improved and then dummied us and everyone in their path.

 

its not an accidental rebuild. The rebuild started after the Sedins hung it up. I respect Benning for trying everything he could to win the Sedins a cup. It wasnt about Vancouver, it was about two of the best players we have witnessed play for the Canucks. He tried to do it for them, hence why the day they retired he blew it up

Every move other than drafting that Benning has made screams re-tool, not rebuild. He was given a lot of high picks simply because his re-tool strategies have failed so spectacularly.

 

Other than EP, not one of his top 1st or 2nd round picks were home runs where they were taken. They were easily on the consensus pick list at those spots, other than Juolevi and Virtanen of course.

 

He drafted some good players in the later rounds and deserves credit for that. But he has also given a lot of them away while getting little back that actually helped the team. 

 

And you dont hang onto the glory days simply because of two players. They had their shot at the cup and when oush came to shove neither of them coukd score enough to get the Canucks to win it. They were owed gratitude, respect, and love for what they did in Van. They were not owed a perpetual band aid approach to building a team.

Edited May 15, 2021 by wallstreetamigo

[knucklehead91]

1 minute ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Then explain the Miller, Schmidt, Toffoli trades? And all the terrible free agent signings?

 

Benning has tried multiple times to go all in. It just never works.

OMG dude stick to basketball or atleast invest in some common sense or hockey sense stocks. 
 

Cup winning teams are ALLL built through drafting, not trading or signing.

 

Henrik, Daniel, Bieksa, Kesler were Burke’s draft picks. Without those 4, there is no story of how close we got in 2011.

 

 

Nonis gave us Edler. Gillis gave us Horvat.

Those are the only notable players from 2 era’s of drafting. The only contribution to the 2011 team from Nonis’s drafting was Edler.
 

Benning gave us Petey, Hughes, Demko, Boeser, Juolevi, DiPietro, Podkolzin, Hoglander

 

 

[Tom Sestito]

44 minutes ago, knucklehead91 said:

Strongly disagree. Rathbone, Juolevi, Myers Hughes will be better than what Benning walked into. He walked into the end of an era. He would be leaving the next era of Canucks defence and forwards behind.. Benning walked into an aged and stale core, with no prospects in sight. 
 

I want to stop you on the Hughes complaints. This has been an atrocity of a season for the team, his second year in the league and new dpartners. It is not fair to use this year to gauge any players performance. There are so many variables this year compared to a normal year

For a majority of the season, the canucks were icing five D over the age of 30 (schmidt, benn, edler, myers, hamonic). 

 

Juolevi is bad. I'm very pro-rathbone but there is a certain level of redundancy with Hughes/Rathbone. I'm also pro-Woo. 

 

Myers is a $3MM defenseman making 6 and all our players play worse with him. That's why Green chose Stecher and Tanev over Myers for the matchup pairs and used Myers with Fantenberg in the playoffs. 

 

Benning inherited Edler (28) Tanev (25) + Hutton. 

 

The idea that all the canucks D in 2014 were over the hill but the 2021 D who were icing 5 guys over 30 aren't is a weird narrative. 

 

 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, knucklehead91 said:

OMG dude stick to basketball or atleast invest in some common sense or hockey sense stocks. 
 

Cup winning teams are ALLL built through drafting, not trading or signing.

 

Henrik, Daniel, Bieksa, Kesler were Burke’s draft picks. Without those 4, there is no story of how close we got in 2011.

 

 

Nonis gave us Edler. Gillis gave us Horvat.

Those are the only notable players from 2 era’s of drafting. The only contribution to the 2011 team from Nonis’s drafting was Edler.
 

Benning gave us Petey, Hughes, Demko, Boeser, Juolevi, DiPietro, Podkolzin, Hoglander

 

 

The drafting of talent is paramount for sure, but wise management in other areas, like cap management, key UFA signings, and trades to fill holes also needed to win.  Like the Hawks signing Hosea as a UFA, or the Kings trading to get Carter.  Benning has drafted some very good young talent, but is he the right guy to get that young core the support group needed for them to become a winning team?  

[wallstreetamigo]

2 minutes ago, knucklehead91 said:

OMG dude stick to basketball or atleast invest in some common sense or hockey sense stocks. 
 

Cup winning teams are ALLL built through drafting, not trading or signing.

 

Henrik, Daniel, Bieksa, Kesler were Burke’s draft picks. Without those 4, there is no story of how close we got in 2011.

 

 

Nonis gave us Edler. Gillis gave us Horvat.

Those are the only notable players from 2 era’s of drafting. The only contribution to the 2011 team from Nonis’s drafting was Edler.
 

Benning gave us Petey, Hughes, Demko, Boeser, Juolevi, DiPietro, Podkolzin, Hoglander

 

 

I am pretty sure you cant read. I played hockey and baseball, not basketball bud. Both at a high level. How high a level of hockey have you played?

 

Cup teams are not ONLY built through the draft. In case you are wondering, thats exactly what I said. And you did too actually so not sure what your point is.

 

My quote above asks you to explain how what Benning has done can be described as an actual rebuild rather than a retool where he tries to go all in to make the playoffs.

 

The fact it has failed due to his terrible pro scouting evaluation doesnt change that. He has drafted high because his retool every year has failed. No other way to describe it bud.

[wallstreetamigo]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

The drafting of talent is paramount for sure, but wise management in other areas, like cap management, key UFA signings, and trades to fill holes also needed to win.  Like the Hawks signing Hosea as a UFA, or the Kings trading to get Carter.  Benning has drafted some very good young talent, but is he the right guy to get that young core the support group needed for them to become a winning team?  

I said this exact thing a few days ago, almost verbatim. I think it was actually a response to you iirc.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, wallstreetamigo said:

I said this exact thing a few days ago, almost verbatim. I think it was actually a response to you iirc.

Your post clearly made an impression.  Even through the scotch induced haze that I live.