Seven years without a clear plan from Canucks brass.

[wallstreetamigo]

4 minutes ago, knucklehead91 said:

Trust me bud, its true.

[wallstreetamigo]

You clearly cant read if you dont follow the clear line there bud.

[kanucks25]

2 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

There is a lot more behind the scenes on the business side that plays into that though.

 

The Aquilini's would not want a true, long painful rebuild as it impacts the bottom line in lost playoff revenue and declining ticket sales. Vancouver fans may have been calling for one for several years but there is a real bottom line risk they would have bailed until the team was a contender again.

 

Aquilini has not been shy about spending to the cap because he sees it as an investment to be recouped if they make the playoffs. Given the cap spent and the lack of playoff rounds (with paying fans that is) as a result, you have to wonder how he feels about the decisions of this regime though.

This is 100% and unfortunately very troubling.

 

You would think a multimillion dollar businessman would understand the concept of investment. In other words, lose something now for greater gains in the future.

 

The Canucks should have looked at a full rebuild like an investment. The losing would have given revenue a big hit in the short-term, but they would have made it back & more had they done the rebuild right. Instead they avoided the idea of a full rebuild like the plague and, to what should be nobody's surprise, became a dumpster fire anyway.

 

We might have a chance when this owner/management group learns there are no shortcuts. A lot of good pieces are in place, this is far away from being unsalvageable. Just frustrating how many unforced errors we will have to suffer to get there.

Edited May 16, 2021 by kanucks25

[kanucks25]

5 hours ago, Tom Sestito said:

He’s still ignoring after he lied lmao

 

@Josepho

Not a surprise here. It's his M.O. to say questionable-to-dumb things and then completely ignore it once he's corrected/called out.

 

5 hours ago, aGENT said:

Why? 

 

We have cap to bring back everyone we want to keep, while continuing to filter in kids (where most of our meaningful improving will come from), building towards a more consistent playoff team as those kids mature and enter their primes.

 

That doesn't sound particularly terrifying or problematic.

At the very least I admire your determination. 

[Hogs & Podz]

11 hours ago, Fred65 said:

An interesting and well thought out article, beware it's mostly about facts and may be bad for some fans heallth 

 

Canucks Have Some Options if They Decide to Replace Benning (thehockeywriters.com)

Rutherford would be my first pick and Gilman my second.  Either of these guys command a great deal of respect throughout the league.  Different strengths but all of which could help this team get to that next step.  It's time...

Let's go!!!  

[wallstreetamigo]

1 minute ago, kanucks25 said:

This is 100% and unfortunately very troubling.

 

You would think a multimillion dollar businessman would understand the concept of investment. In other words, lose something now for greater gains in the future.

 

The Canucks should have looked at a full rebuild like an investment. The losing would have given revenue a big hit, but they would have made it back & more had they done the rebuild right. Instead they avoided the idea of a full rebuild like the plague and, to what should be nobody's surprise, became a dumpster fire anyway.

 

We might have a chance when this owner/management group learns there are no shortcuts.

I think the original decision until 2018 or so to re-tool rather than rebuild was a massive mistake. But I can at least understand the train of thought from Aquilini and Benning regarding that.

 

Where I have trouble seeing the logic is, when it miserably failed, there came a crossroads. Two different paths, a rebuild Linden wanted and more re-tooling Benning wanted. We obviously found out which Aquilini thought was right at that point.

 

But it was wrong. The fact that it failed so spectacularly is the only reason Benning got to draft high enough to get this core. It was in spite of all his other moves which, if you are objective at all, clearly identify his strategy as actually a re-tool.

 

The team is at another crossroads now. The retool has failed again and has caused cap issues. 

 

You have to wonder if Aquilini is questioning being a cap team, all the buyouts, bad contracts, and band aid solutions when he has literally not benefitted at all. 

 

Last years playoffs made him nowhere near the money of normal playoffs.

 

If Aquilini teuly wants to get the money train rolling again, he should be looking to fire Benning. It will at least give him another year or two of less scrutiny for the team. As a businessman I would bet he is at least considering it at this point.

[kanucks25]

4 minutes ago, Hogs & Podz said:

Rutherford would be my first pick and Gilman my second.  Either of these guys command a great deal of respect throughout the league.  Different strengths but all of which could help this team get to that next step.  It's time...

Let's go!!!  

Don't know how to feel about JR. In the first half of his time with the Pens he made some great moves that led to two championships, and then in the second half he was arguably the worst GM in the league. 

 

However I do think this team needs a reputable veteran in the front office (whether it's the PoHo or GM) that can both handle the owner and bring some credibility back to the franchise. Someone who knows how to handle the media would be great, too.

Edited May 16, 2021 by kanucks25

[knucklehead91]

39 minutes ago, Marv-the-wet-bandit said:

If that’s the case then JB should have balls and walk away if he’s not allowed to do his job and is just ruining his reputation. Linden did. Benning was at least on board with the decisions that FA wanted if he didn’t want them himself. FA sucks and so does JB. It doesn’t have to be one or the other, believe it or not it can be both. But the issues with this organization definitely start with ownership, it just doesn’t stop there 

From the 2011 dream til the end of the Sedin era, it was an ownership issue. They held onto the dreams of 2011 for too long. And until the Sedins retired it was an ownership run organization. Since they have retired and a rebuild was evident, its become a GM run organization. This is year 3.... and this year was not at all a normal year to gauge for the canucks..... i feel like its groundhogs day. I am sick of repeating myself, but here we go one last time...

1) We had the worst scheduling to start the season. 
2) COVID decimated us. We spent a month isolating and recovering without playing hockey. Name another team or a year where a team was iced for a month mid season.

3) The last 19 games in 30 days (a crippling schedule)

4) the first round of playoffs will be 1/2 over for some teams, before the regular season ends for Van and Calgary 

[knucklehead91]

47 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Trust me bud, its true.

Trust the basketball guy.... yea.... OKAY.

you contradicted yourself 3 times in that post.

[Hogs & Podz]

41 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

Don't know how to feel about JR. In the first half of his time with the Pens he made some great moves that led to two championships, and then in the second half he was arguably the worst GM in the league. 

 

However I do think this team needs a reputable veteran in the front office (whether it's the PoHo or GM) that can both handle the owner and bring some credibility back to the franchise. Someone who knows how to handle the media would be great, too.

I hear yah about Rutherford.  Maybe the game has past him by a bit.  He knew how to build a high octane skilled exciting team and he has the 3 cup to prove it.  Gilman on the other hand is a mind of the numbers.  Our cap has been mismanaged during all of Bennings tenure, Gilman could work his magic and make the hard logical decisions to get our cap workable again.  But does he have the other skill such as delegating and finding the right people for the right positions... Has he built enough connections and goodwill to make a well rounded elite management team?  Not sure but that is what we need. 

[Marv-the-wet-bandit]

9 minutes ago, knucklehead91 said:

From the 2011 dream til the end of the Sedin era, it was an ownership issue. They held onto the dreams of 2011 for too long. And until the Sedins retired it was an ownership run organization. Since they have retired and a rebuild was evident, its become a GM run organization. This is year 3.... and this year was not at all a normal year to gauge for the canucks..... i feel like its groundhogs day. I am sick of repeating myself, but here we go one last time...

1) We had the worst scheduling to start the season. 
2) COVID decimated us. We spent a month isolating and recovering without playing hockey. Name another team or a year where a team was iced for a month mid season.

3) The last 19 games in 30 days (a crippling schedule)

4) the first round of playoffs will be 1/2 over for some teams, before the regular season ends for Van and Calgary 

Highlighting parts of thoughts to use for your benefit is ridiculous. I didn’t use point form with only the views you share, but you try and make it look that way. Whining about the scheduling to start the season is a pretty lame excuse, teams need to overcome all types of different adversities throughout a season. Covid absolutely decimated us but we weren’t looking like a playoff team prior to the covid shutdown. 19 games in 30 days sucks, I’d agree it’s crippling but the season was over before our last 19 games unless we played at an absolutely elite level and judging by the prior 37 games there is absolutely no reason to make that assumption. The first round of the playoffs being half over before the Canucks and flames season ends is irrelevant to everything, although it is a fact, also the sky is blue. We can all throw out facts that have no bearing in this discussion. The reason they can start the playoffs while the Flames and Canucks haven’t finished their seasons is because the games only mean something for draft position as both teams were very bad this season. You shouldn’t talk about what happens behind the teams closed doors like they’re facts when you, like everyone else on this message board, myself included, don’t know anything for a fact. “It was ownership run. It’s only been GM run for 3 years”. You’re really reaching. 

[Hogs & Podz]

18 minutes ago, knucklehead91 said:

From the 2011 dream til the end of the Sedin era, it was an ownership issue. They held onto the dreams of 2011 for too long. And until the Sedins retired it was an ownership run organization. Since they have retired and a rebuild was evident, its become a GM run organization. This is year 3.... and this year was not at all a normal year to gauge for the canucks..... i feel like its groundhogs day. I am sick of repeating myself, but here we go one last time...

1) We had the worst scheduling to start the season. 
2) COVID decimated us. We spent a month isolating and recovering without playing hockey. Name another team or a year where a team was iced for a month mid season.

3) The last 19 games in 30 days (a crippling schedule)

4) the first round of playoffs will be 1/2 over for some teams, before the regular season ends for Van and Calgary 

So you feel Benning and staff deserve at least next year to show what they can do before ownership make a decision one way or the other?

[wallstreetamigo]

44 minutes ago, knucklehead91 said:

Trust the basketball guy.... yea.... OKAY.

you contradicted yourself 3 times in that post.

I didnt contradict myself at all. Owners make the decisions based on the information presented to them by the people they hire as President and GM. Its pretty common practice in almost any business, especially large ones.

 

Benning is the one who is the architect of the failed perpetual retool strategy. Once Linden was gone there was no one else to blame. Aquilini deciding to trust Benning's plan is on him.

[wallstreetamigo]

It blows me away that people can look even from when the Sedins retired to now and see a rebuild rather than another failed retool.

 

Its time to get a President and GM who can cut the dead weight on this roster and build around the core.

 

Sometimes it takes a new pair of eyes to see what needs to be done. The reason is a new GM is not tied to previous decisions by his predecessor and subsequently can objectively assess the mistakes that need to be corrected.

 

Its no wonder our team has no actual identity. Our GM has no ability to even hold himself accountable enough to learn from his mistakes. Most of the time he just blames anyone and everything else and corcumstances outside his control. Thats not competent leadership. And its the main problem with this team at this point.

[knucklehead91]

34 minutes ago, Marv-the-wet-bandit said:

Highlighting parts of thoughts to use for your benefit is ridiculous. I didn’t use point form with only the views you share, but you try and make it look that way. Whining about the scheduling to start the season is a pretty lame excuse, teams need to overcome all types of different adversities throughout a season. Covid absolutely decimated us but we weren’t looking like a playoff team prior to the covid shutdown. 19 games in 30 days sucks, I’d agree it’s crippling but the season was over before our last 19 games unless we played at an absolutely elite level and judging by the prior 37 games there is absolutely no reason to make that assumption. The first round of the playoffs being half over before the Canucks and flames season ends is irrelevant to everything, although it is a fact, also the sky is blue. We can all throw out facts that have no bearing in this discussion. The reason they can start the playoffs while the Flames and Canucks haven’t finished their seasons is because the games only mean something for draft position as both teams were very bad this season. You shouldn’t talk about what happens behind the teams closed doors like they’re facts when you, like everyone else on this message board, myself included, don’t know anything for a fact. “It was ownership run. It’s only been GM run for 3 years”. You’re really reaching. 

Responding to bolded in order

1) It is not a lame excuse. This was not a normal season with proper preparation for an 82 game season. There was no training camp and there was no pre-season to get ready for the upcoming season. So with nearly zero preparation, and a handful of new faces we had very little practice to adjust. YES I KNOW THIS WAS THE CASE FOR EVERY TEAM IN THE LEAGUE. However, unlike every other team in the league we had played 6-8 games more than the rest of the league, by the time we had our first week of rest. We also hadn’t had a practice. So no preparation for the season and the most intensive scheduling to start the season, puts you pretty far back when you come out the gates slow and struggle and then to top it off you have 4 or 5 games in 7 nights to grind you down even further. Its pretty easy to fall behind pretty quick.

 

2) in a 15 game stretch prior to COVID we were one of the hottest teams in the league, we won a handful in a row and were getting on a roll. COVID hit and put fire on ice. Post COVID our scheduling as you agree, was a gruelling up hill battle. 
 

3) Playoffs starting before regular season ends???????? WTF dude that is a pretty obvious sign that the Canucks season scheduling was a losing battle and not because of some conspiracy of the league being against the Canucks. But because we had to sit out for a month during the regular season and then had to make up the games in a disturbingly short time. What IF the Canucks made the playoffs by the end of that 19 in 30 day stretch. Do you think we would be a) healthy or b) rested and ready for playoffs or c) burnt out, injured and f***ed for playoffs.

 

4) The difference between an ownership run organization and Management run organization is do everything at all costs to make playoffs versus sacrifice now for long term gain.

Sedins = try and win a cup = owners wanting $$

No Sedins = okay, we are actually f***ed, blow it up, lets rebuild = gm control

[knucklehead91]

54 minutes ago, Hogs & Podz said:

So you feel Benning and staff deserve at least next year to show what they can do before ownership make a decision one way or the other?

In the 3 years since the Sedins retired and I feel that Benning has been given control, we missed playoffs the first year, went on a great run the following year and have seen a very unfavourable year this season. We were 50/50 in the playoffs the first 2 seasons, this one was not a fair season to judge the Canucks. I strongly believe next year with a proper training camp, a fair schedule and no mid season shut down, we can prove we are better. I’d give Benning 2 more years and Green as well. He took on the Canucks in their darkest times, he deserves some sunlight.

[wallstreetamigo]

3 minutes ago, knucklehead91 said:

In the 3 years since the Sedins retired and I feel that Benning has been given control, we missed playoffs the first year, went on a great run the following year and have seen a very unfavourable year this season. We were 50/50 in the playoffs the first 2 seasons, this one was not a fair season to judge the Canucks. I strongly believe next year with a proper training camp, a fair schedule and no mid season shut down, we can prove we are better. I’d give Benning 2 more years and Green as well. He took on the Canucks in their darkest times, he deserves some sunlight.

So essentially your argument is Benning was,GM in name only and had no part in or responsibility for the failed retool originally?

 

That was ALL ownership?

 

The reality is last years "run" was not really a run at all. They squeaked in on a technicality when they were sliding down the standings. No season stop, very likely no playoffs. And most of the season they still had to rely on lights out goaltending to win.

 

They got dominated by Vegas. Without Demko playing lights out that series is over in 5.

 

The schedule, etc. are just excuses. It was tough on every team but some managed to actually adjust and play well, not crater under a weak roster and suspect coaching decisions.

 

In my mind the only thing Benning has earned is a pink slip.

[iinatcc]

1 hour ago, wallstreetamigo said:

I think the original decision until 2018 or so to re-tool rather than rebuild was a massive mistake. But I can at least understand the train of thought from Aquilini and Benning regarding that.

 

Where I have trouble seeing the logic is, when it miserably failed, there came a crossroads. Two different paths, a rebuild Linden wanted and more re-tooling Benning wanted. We obviously found out which Aquilini thought was right at that point.

 

But it was wrong. The fact that it failed so spectacularly is the only reason Benning got to draft high enough to get this core. It was in spite of all his other moves which, if you are objective at all, clearly identify his strategy as actually a re-tool.

 

 

Regarding the retool vs rebuild. Neither approach entailed signing bad contracts or making bad trades 

 

In the case of the retool era Benning traded and resigned Sutter and Gudbransson and signed Eriksson to a long term contract.

 

In the rebuild era Benning signed guys like Roussel and Beagle. And gave Baertschi and extension. 

 

There have been teams that were able to retool and did so successfuly w/o making too many be decision. The Blues had a mini retool when they moved on from Backes and Oshie, Boston was able to retool after missing the playoffs, and The Wild, as far as I know, never went to a full rebuild they just gradually added pieces to their team.

 

Point is regardless the team is in a rebuild or retool. It shouldn't excuse the GM for making bad moves. And a retool could still work if done right 

 

[Marv-the-wet-bandit]

40 minutes ago, knucklehead91 said:

Responding to bolded in order

1) It is not a lame excuse. This was not a normal season with proper preparation for an 82 game season. There was no training camp and there was no pre-season to get ready for the upcoming season. So with nearly zero preparation, and a handful of new faces we had very little practice to adjust. YES I KNOW THIS WAS THE CASE FOR EVERY TEAM IN THE LEAGUE. However, unlike every other team in the league we had played 6-8 games more than the rest of the league, by the time we had our first week of rest. We also hadn’t had a practice. So no preparation for the season and the most intensive scheduling to start the season, puts you pretty far back when you come out the gates slow and struggle and then to top it off you have 4 or 5 games in 7 nights to grind you down even further. Its pretty easy to fall behind pretty quick.

 

2) in a 15 game stretch prior to COVID we were one of the hottest teams in the league, we won a handful in a row and were getting on a roll. COVID hit and put fire on ice. Post COVID our scheduling as you agree, was a gruelling up hill battle. 
 

3) Playoffs starting before regular season ends???????? WTF dude that is a pretty obvious sign that the Canucks season scheduling was a losing battle and not because of some conspiracy of the league being against the Canucks. But because we had to sit out for a month during the regular season and then had to make up the games in a disturbingly short time. What IF the Canucks made the playoffs by the end of that 19 in 30 day stretch. Do you think we would be a) healthy or b) rested and ready for playoffs or c) burnt out, injured and f***ed for playoffs.

 

4) The difference between an ownership run organization and Management run organization is do everything at all costs to make playoffs versus sacrifice now for long term gain.

Sedins = try and win a cup = owners wanting $$

No Sedins = okay, we are actually f***ed, blow it up, lets rebuild = gm control

1) it is a very lame excuse. To start the season we played 11 games between Jan. 13 - Jan. 30. Edmonton played 11 games between Jan. 13 - Jan. 30. The leafs played 10 games between Jan. 13 - Jan. 30. So again, lame excuse.

 

2) in the 15 games prior to the covid shutdown we won 4 games in regulation and lost 6 in regulation. That screams playoffs and we got screwed to you? lol

 

3) 19 games in 30 days was a necessity “dude”. They couldn’t play through the covid issues and had to be shut down and since it was already obvious they weren’t going to make the playoffs who cares if they started before we finished our season? Should be easy for you to grasp but you just grasp at straws. 
 

4) a lot of GMs need to do whatever they can to win at all costs because THEIR JOB IS ON THE LINE. You have no clue who was making the decisions and if you think Benning was against them you're more insane then I initially thought, and I thought you were absolutely off your rocker. 
 

I understand Benning is your hero but think about it rationally. 7 years of this bs hasn’t been enough for you. Unfortunately for you, it’s been plenty of time for a lot of us and we want to see change. As everyone in Canuck nation should. One day you’ll take the blinders off. 
 

 

Edited May 16, 2021 by Marv-the-wet-bandit

[Marv-the-wet-bandit]

23 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

So essentially your argument is Benning was,GM in name only and had no part in or responsibility for the failed retool originally?

 

That was ALL ownership?

 

The reality is last years "run" was not really a run at all. They squeaked in on a technicality when they were sliding down the standings. No season stop, very likely no playoffs. And most of the season they still had to rely on lights out goaltending to win.

 

They got dominated by Vegas. Without Demko playing lights out that series is over in 5.

 

The schedule, etc. are just excuses. It was tough on every team but some managed to actually adjust and play well, not crater under a weak roster and suspect coaching decisions.

 

In my mind the only thing Benning has earned is a pink slip.

He is delusional or unknowledgeable. All of his points get debunked yet he still spews them repeated. I won’t reply to him again because it’s now old and boring