wallstreetamigo Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 38 minutes ago, iinatcc said: Regarding the retool vs rebuild. Neither approach entailed signing bad contracts or making bad trades In the case of the retool era Benning traded and resigned Sutter and Gudbransson and signed Eriksson to a long term contract. In the rebuild era Benning signed guys like Roussel and Beagle. And gave Baertschi and extension. There have been teams that were able to retool and did so successfuly w/o making too many be decision. The Blues had a mini retool when they moved on from Backes and Oshie, Boston was able to retool after missing the playoffs, and The Wild, as far as I know, never went to a full rebuild they just gradually added pieces to their team. Point is regardless the team is in a rebuild or retool. It shouldn't excuse the GM for making bad moves. And a retool could still work if done right This is all true. Combining a retool with terrible pro scouting ability doesnt usually turn out well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 58 minutes ago, knucklehead91 said: In the 3 years since the Sedins retired and I feel that Benning has been given control, we missed playoffs the first year, went on a great run the following year and have seen a very unfavourable year this season. We were 50/50 in the playoffs the first 2 seasons, this one was not a fair season to judge the Canucks. I strongly believe next year with a proper training camp, a fair schedule and no mid season shut down, we can prove we are better. I’d give Benning 2 more years and Green as well. He took on the Canucks in their darkest times, he deserves some sunlight. Lol you make it sound like they had to beg Green to coach the team. Benning: "Come on Travis! Please, please, please, please, pretty please?" Green: "Oh, I guess so even though I really dont want to." The team gave him his first head coaching gig in the NHL. The roster could have been 23 random CDC posters and he would have jumped at the chance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Convincing John Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 7 hours ago, knucklehead91 said: Or you know, he could rebuild in a losing atmosphere. Ok, What are we rebuilding in then? Lol The excuses are tiresome the comparisons are tiresome. I don’t care how you rebuild, I really don’t. Just know what you’re actually doing. The difference between Buffalo and Colorado is management. The method was the same. Jim tried to rebuild on the fly without a core. That hasn’t been done since the Brian Burke leafs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appleboy Posted May 16, 2021 Author Share Posted May 16, 2021 What a mess! The ownership is the issue. They hired Linden who had no experience. As he began to learn he started to see the proper direction. He wanted to slow down and focus on rebuilding the organization. It was a direction that old Jimbo and the owners didn't want . Instead of letting their president do his job they kicked him to the curb. Soon after Bracket leaves and now they will lose Clark. THE OWNERS ARE THE ISSUE. HIRE SOMEONE GOOD AND GET TO **** OUT OF THE WAY. That is what Jeff should tell them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appleboy Posted May 16, 2021 Author Share Posted May 16, 2021 You have one of the best young goal tenders in the league and you haven't locked down his coach. That is just insane. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 4 hours ago, appleboy said: You have one of the best young goal tenders in the league and you haven't locked down his coach. That is just insane. Especially since it isn't dependent on who the GM or Head coach is. Goalies coaches are kind of on their own, with the Rangers for example their goalie coach has survived a bunch of different Head coaches. I can see that if the GM may be getting replaced that they can't commit to Green... but honestly no new management is going to be dissuaded because they can't put in "their" goalie coach. They would honestly almost certainly be happy that there was a facet of the operation that had continuity and they could largely ignore because it is working well. That can't be said for the rest of the roster, coaching staff, pro scouts, etc. There is a ton of work to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knucklehead91 Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 5 hours ago, Convincing John said: Ok, What are we rebuilding in then? Lol The excuses are tiresome the comparisons are tiresome. I don’t care how you rebuild, I really don’t. Just know what you’re actually doing. The difference between Buffalo and Colorado is management. The method was the same. Jim tried to rebuild on the fly without a core. That hasn’t been done since the Brian Burke leafs. How long did Colorado’s rebuild take exactly...??? And how did they do their rebuild?? Through the draft How are we rebuilding? Through the draft case and point Pettersson, Hughes, Hoglander, Juolevi, Podkolzin, Rathbone, Woo, Jurmo, Lind, Lockwood, Virtanen (he still has time, unfortunately it might be elsewhere) plus another top 10 this year. Look at the recent contracts that were handed out by Benning post Sedin era, compared to the contracts that were given out in the tail end of the Sedin era and look at the state of the organization in the final years of the Sedins and the years after the Sedins We were an aged core, we had no prospects, nothing within to organization to develop. Horvat was the only thing we had and if you go through Nonis and Gillis’ drafting, we got Edler out of that. No one else really materialized. Hodgson sorta kinda maybe did, but he retired very very early. In the last years of the Sedins, Benning tried to hailmary a cup for them. He tried to buy a cup with whatever he could get his hands on to help. Even though it was grim and bleak for the Canucks. After the Sedins retired, it was a rebuild. We want to remain in a competitive atmosphere EVEN if its a losing season. We dont want a losing culture. So Benning signed a bunch of stop gap players to hold down the fort while we build through the draft and develop players, before throwing them to the wolves. We had a rough 2018-19 season. But we began to turn it around in 2019-20, we won 2 rounds and were no match for a cup contending team. We still required a bit more time and a couple more bodies. Benning UNLIKE OTHER YEARS, chose NOT to re-sign older players to 4+ year contracts, which would slow us down and derail the rebuild. Look at every single cup winning team in the last 10-12 years, they all won and built teams through strong drafting. The further you look, the further back the drafting began. You dont just draft today and win tomorrow. Pittsburghs drafting/rebuild began in 2000 with Orpik, then Fleury, Malkin, Crosby, Letang, Staal and won their first cup in 2008-09 and won 2 more in a 17 year span while drafting Murray, Guentzel (8 years for the first cup) Chicago’s drafting/rebuilding began in 2002 with Keith, Byfuglien, Kane, Toews, Seabrook, Crawford, Brouwer, Bolland, Hjarmlsson they won in 09-10 (7 years) they also won 2 more. Boston’s drafting/rebuilding began in 2003 with Bergeron, then Krejci, Lucic, Marchand and won 7 years later. They have continued to draft well from their cup winning season and are contenders nearly every year. LA Kings drafting/rebuild began in 2003 with Brown, then Kopitar, Quick, Lewis, Doughty Martinez, Nolan,Clifford, Toffoli and Pearson, it took 9 years to win a cup and they won another Washingtons drafting/rebuilding began in 2004 with Ovechkin, then Backstrom, Carlson, Holtby, Kuznetsov, Orlov and Vrana it took 13 years from the time Ovi was drafted to win their first cup. But they have always been contenders St Louis drafting/rebuilding began in 08 with Pietrangelo then Tarasenko, Schwartz, Binnington, Parayko, Edmondson, Dunn, Fabbri. They won a cup in 2018-19 (11 years) Tampa Bay’s drafting/rebuilding began in 2008 with Stamkos, then Hedman, Kucherov, Vasilevski, Cirelli and Point... thats 11 years to win a cup 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 He "chose" not to sign those guys because he had wasted so much cap on Eriksson, Baertschi, Roussel, Beagle, Ferland, Myers, etc. that he could then not trade due to their terrible contracts, so he didnt have thecap room. And while letting them walk he also signed the very young Braden Holtby. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilduce39 Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 12 minutes ago, knucklehead91 said: How long did Colorado’s rebuild take exactly...??? And how did they do their rebuild?? Through the draft How are we rebuilding? Through the draft case and point Pettersson, Hughes, Hoglander, Juolevi, Podkolzin, Rathbone, Woo, Jurmo, Lind, Lockwood, Virtanen (he still has time, unfortunately it might be elsewhere) plus another top 10 this year. Look at the recent contracts that were handed out by Benning post Sedin era, compared to the contracts that were given out in the tail end of the Sedin era and look at the state of the organization in the final years of the Sedins and the years after the Sedins We were an aged core, we had no prospects, nothing within to organization to develop. Horvat was the only thing we had and if you go through Nonis and Gillis’ drafting, we got Edler out of that. No one else really materialized. Hodgson sorta kinda maybe did, but he retired very very early. In the last years of the Sedins, Benning tried to hailmary a cup for them. He tried to buy a cup with whatever he could get his hands on to help. Even though it was grim and bleak for the Canucks. After the Sedins retired, it was a rebuild. We want to remain in a competitive atmosphere EVEN if its a losing season. We dont want a losing culture. So Benning signed a bunch of stop gap players to hold down the fort while we build through the draft and develop players, before throwing them to the wolves. We had a rough 2018-19 season. But we began to turn it around in 2019-20, we won 2 rounds and were no match for a cup contending team. We still required a bit more time and a couple more bodies. Benning UNLIKE OTHER YEARS, chose NOT to re-sign older players to 4+ year contracts, which would slow us down and derail the rebuild. Look at every single cup winning team in the last 10-12 years, they all won and built teams through strong drafting. The further you look, the further back the drafting began. You dont just draft today and win tomorrow. Pittsburghs drafting/rebuild began in 2000 with Orpik, then Fleury, Malkin, Crosby, Letang, Staal and won their first cup in 2008-09 and won 2 more in a 17 year span while drafting Murray, Guentzel (8 years for the first cup) Chicago’s drafting/rebuilding began in 2002 with Keith, Byfuglien, Kane, Toews, Seabrook, Crawford, Brouwer, Bolland, Hjarmlsson they won in 09-10 (7 years) they also won 2 more. Boston’s drafting/rebuilding began in 2003 with Bergeron, then Krejci, Lucic, Marchand and won 7 years later. They have continued to draft well from their cup winning season and are contenders nearly every year. LA Kings drafting/rebuild began in 2003 with Brown, then Kopitar, Quick, Lewis, Doughty Martinez, Nolan,Clifford, Toffoli and Pearson, it took 9 years to win a cup and they won another Washingtons drafting/rebuilding began in 2004 with Ovechkin, then Backstrom, Carlson, Holtby, Kuznetsov, Orlov and Vrana it took 13 years from the time Ovi was drafted to win their first cup. But they have always been contenders St Louis drafting/rebuilding began in 08 with Pietrangelo then Tarasenko, Schwartz, Binnington, Parayko, Edmondson, Dunn, Fabbri. They won a cup in 2018-19 (11 years) Tampa Bay’s drafting/rebuilding began in 2008 with Stamkos, then Hedman, Kucherov, Vasilevski, Cirelli and Point... thats 11 years to win a cup Considering Horvat was the only decent young piece we’re actually not sitting that bad after 7 years. The top 6 looks decent and with Hughes/Rathbone/Juolevi there’s at least some hope on D. Then a gem in Demko between the pipes - a lot of good pieces in place. My biggest qualm is that I’d have preferred to build from the net out (Demko was a great start) but I guess “BPA” dictated moves like Boeser, Petey, Podkolzin... and the time we went with the D man in Juolevi didn’t work out vs Tkachuk. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv-the-wet-bandit Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 27 minutes ago, knucklehead91 said: How long did Colorado’s rebuild take exactly...??? And how did they do their rebuild?? Through the draft How are we rebuilding? Through the draft case and point Pettersson, Hughes, Hoglander, Juolevi, Podkolzin, Rathbone, Woo, Jurmo, Lind, Lockwood, Virtanen (he still has time, unfortunately it might be elsewhere) plus another top 10 this year. Look at the recent contracts that were handed out by Benning post Sedin era, compared to the contracts that were given out in the tail end of the Sedin era and look at the state of the organization in the final years of the Sedins and the years after the Sedins We were an aged core, we had no prospects, nothing within to organization to develop. Horvat was the only thing we had and if you go through Nonis and Gillis’ drafting, we got Edler out of that. No one else really materialized. Hodgson sorta kinda maybe did, but he retired very very early. In the last years of the Sedins, Benning tried to hailmary a cup for them. He tried to buy a cup with whatever he could get his hands on to help. Even though it was grim and bleak for the Canucks. After the Sedins retired, it was a rebuild. We want to remain in a competitive atmosphere EVEN if its a losing season. We dont want a losing culture. So Benning signed a bunch of stop gap players to hold down the fort while we build through the draft and develop players, before throwing them to the wolves. We had a rough 2018-19 season. But we began to turn it around in 2019-20, we won 2 rounds and were no match for a cup contending team. We still required a bit more time and a couple more bodies. Benning UNLIKE OTHER YEARS, chose NOT to re-sign older players to 4+ year contracts, which would slow us down and derail the rebuild. Look at every single cup winning team in the last 10-12 years, they all won and built teams through strong drafting. The further you look, the further back the drafting began. You dont just draft today and win tomorrow. Pittsburghs drafting/rebuild began in 2000 with Orpik, then Fleury, Malkin, Crosby, Letang, Staal and won their first cup in 2008-09 and won 2 more in a 17 year span while drafting Murray, Guentzel (8 years for the first cup) Chicago’s drafting/rebuilding began in 2002 with Keith, Byfuglien, Kane, Toews, Seabrook, Crawford, Brouwer, Bolland, Hjarmlsson they won in 09-10 (7 years) they also won 2 more. Boston’s drafting/rebuilding began in 2003 with Bergeron, then Krejci, Lucic, Marchand and won 7 years later. They have continued to draft well from their cup winning season and are contenders nearly every year. LA Kings drafting/rebuild began in 2003 with Brown, then Kopitar, Quick, Lewis, Doughty Martinez, Nolan,Clifford, Toffoli and Pearson, it took 9 years to win a cup and they won another Washingtons drafting/rebuilding began in 2004 with Ovechkin, then Backstrom, Carlson, Holtby, Kuznetsov, Orlov and Vrana it took 13 years from the time Ovi was drafted to win their first cup. But they have always been contenders St Louis drafting/rebuilding began in 08 with Pietrangelo then Tarasenko, Schwartz, Binnington, Parayko, Edmondson, Dunn, Fabbri. They won a cup in 2018-19 (11 years) Tampa Bay’s drafting/rebuilding began in 2008 with Stamkos, then Hedman, Kucherov, Vasilevski, Cirelli and Point... thats 11 years to win a cup Building through the draft with limited picks. If you’re rebuilding plan is to rebuild through the draft, which is the only logical way of doing it, then you trade players to add picks and you don’t trade picks and prospects for a guy like say, Toffoli, and then show your terrible asset management and not resign him. That’s not a rebuilding move. Good try though 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballisticsports. Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 I was patient at the beginning and ready to go through a rebuild , In 2016 he said in 2 yrs we will be among the elite (which I never bought, but was hopeful i was wrong) and 5 yrs later he is now asking for 2 more years and is exactly what he said in 2016. You can't let a GM keep kicking the can down the road At some point, the excuses need to stop and someone needs to be held accountable. He has already had 1 more year than the longest running GM in Pat Quinn, who made a huge turnaround in a trade and took us within 1 game of a cup no one was expecting and is something i don't see JB able to do to surround our core, Everyone can cook, but a chef stands out I don't see him as the guy who can put all the right ingredients together and build something that stands out as the best He has had much higher draft picks than what the other GM's were afforded, by having this team at the bottom of the league standings 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Convincing John Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 50 minutes ago, knucklehead91 said: How long did Colorado’s rebuild take exactly...??? And how did they do their rebuild?? Through the draft How are we rebuilding? Through the draft case and point Pettersson, Hughes, Hoglander, Juolevi, Podkolzin, Rathbone, Woo, Jurmo, Lind, Lockwood, Virtanen (he still has time, unfortunately it might be elsewhere) plus another top 10 this year. Look at the recent contracts that were handed out by Benning post Sedin era, compared to the contracts that were given out in the tail end of the Sedin era and look at the state of the organization in the final years of the Sedins and the years after the Sedins We were an aged core, we had no prospects, nothing within to organization to develop. Horvat was the only thing we had and if you go through Nonis and Gillis’ drafting, we got Edler out of that. No one else really materialized. Hodgson sorta kinda maybe did, but he retired very very early. In the last years of the Sedins, Benning tried to hailmary a cup for them. He tried to buy a cup with whatever he could get his hands on to help. Even though it was grim and bleak for the Canucks. After the Sedins retired, it was a rebuild. We want to remain in a competitive atmosphere EVEN if its a losing season. We dont want a losing culture. So Benning signed a bunch of stop gap players to hold down the fort while we build through the draft and develop players, before throwing them to the wolves. We had a rough 2018-19 season. But we began to turn it around in 2019-20, we won 2 rounds and were no match for a cup contending team. We still required a bit more time and a couple more bodies. Benning UNLIKE OTHER YEARS, chose NOT to re-sign older players to 4+ year contracts, which would slow us down and derail the rebuild. Look at every single cup winning team in the last 10-12 years, they all won and built teams through strong drafting. The further you look, the further back the drafting began. You dont just draft today and win tomorrow. Pittsburghs drafting/rebuild began in 2000 with Orpik, then Fleury, Malkin, Crosby, Letang, Staal and won their first cup in 2008-09 and won 2 more in a 17 year span while drafting Murray, Guentzel (8 years for the first cup) Chicago’s drafting/rebuilding began in 2002 with Keith, Byfuglien, Kane, Toews, Seabrook, Crawford, Brouwer, Bolland, Hjarmlsson they won in 09-10 (7 years) they also won 2 more. Boston’s drafting/rebuilding began in 2003 with Bergeron, then Krejci, Lucic, Marchand and won 7 years later. They have continued to draft well from their cup winning season and are contenders nearly every year. LA Kings drafting/rebuild began in 2003 with Brown, then Kopitar, Quick, Lewis, Doughty Martinez, Nolan,Clifford, Toffoli and Pearson, it took 9 years to win a cup and they won another Washingtons drafting/rebuilding began in 2004 with Ovechkin, then Backstrom, Carlson, Holtby, Kuznetsov, Orlov and Vrana it took 13 years from the time Ovi was drafted to win their first cup. But they have always been contenders St Louis drafting/rebuilding began in 08 with Pietrangelo then Tarasenko, Schwartz, Binnington, Parayko, Edmondson, Dunn, Fabbri. They won a cup in 2018-19 (11 years) Tampa Bay’s drafting/rebuilding began in 2008 with Stamkos, then Hedman, Kucherov, Vasilevski, Cirelli and Point... thats 11 years to win a cup 1. You make a lot of assumptions in your prospect pool to load up your Narrative. Lind and Podz? You really going to write them down on your core column? Settle down buds. 2. Benning didn’t choose anything. He had no choice. Well, I guess he choose Virtanen over Toffoli who in a recent interview said he wasn’t even offered a contract. 3. You sound like a QAnon supporter the day after Biden was inaugurated. Your little “insulation” theory sounded pretty promising at first but it has absolutely no merit whatsoever. They sucked for the vast majority of this “winning culture” I would actually argue that it’s held back prospects in their development. Healthy competition doesn’t happen when you gotta pay a 4th line plug or sit him. Those bottom 6 spots should be there for player development not for overpaid vets to go out to pasture. How many guys do you need to insulate a team? Like what’s the ratio? What %of your cap should be reserved for players who get paid to produce nothing but a great locker room presence. The answer is $0. If you can’t produce then why are you playing in the NHL? Let’s spend money on players that score, how bout that? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devron Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 I bet there a lot of uptight comments in here, a few “buds” and excessive narratives haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballisticsports. Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 8 minutes ago, Convincing John said: 1. You make a lot of assumptions in your prospect pool to load up your Narrative. Lind and Podz? You really going to write them down on your core column? Settle down buds. 2. Benning didn’t choose anything. He had no choice. Well, I guess he choose Virtanen over Toffoli who in a recent interview said he wasn’t even offered a contract. 3. You sound like a QAnon supporter the day after Biden was inaugurated. Your little “insulation” theory sounded pretty promising at first but it has absolutely no merit whatsoever. They sucked for the vast majority of this “winning culture” I would actually argue that it’s held back prospects in their development. Healthy competition doesn’t happen when you gotta pay a 4th line plug or sit him. Those bottom 6 spots should be there for player development not for overpaid vets to go out to pasture. How many guys do you need to insulate a team? Like what’s the ratio? What %of your cap should be reserved for players who get paid to produce nothing but a great locker room presence. The answer is $0. If you can’t produce then why are you playing in the NHL? Let’s spend money on players that score, how bout that? What? You don't wanna pay for guys who are good in the room, but bad on the ice? Pay for guys to sit on the bench or in other leagues? Bring a "winning" attitude, while at the bottom of league standings every year? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Convincing John Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 16 minutes ago, ba;;isticsports said: What? You don't wanna pay for guys who are good in the room, but bad on the ice? Pay for guys to sit on the bench or in other leagues? Bring a "winning" attitude, while at the bottom of league standings every year? Haha, hey Bo Horvat I’m going to show you how to be a leader with my 5 points on the forth line. This is how you become a pro bro. Scoring only technically wins you games. The real win is trying really hard with no results. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 30 minutes ago, Devron44 said: I bet there a lot of uptight comments in here, a few “buds” and excessive narratives haha Bud is my copywrited thing. This is an infringement on my rights. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Convincing John Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 1 hour ago, Marv-the-wet-bandit said: Building through the draft with limited picks. If you’re rebuilding plan is to rebuild through the draft, which is the only logical way of doing it, then you trade players to add picks and you don’t trade picks and prospects for a guy like say, Toffoli, and then show your terrible asset management and not resign him. That’s not a rebuilding move. Good try though Toffoli claimes he never even made an offer, hahahaha. Then Jimbo said he ran out of time. Seriously Jim, shoot him a text while you’re taking a crap or something. You can do 2 things at once. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred65 Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 " You can do 2 things at once. " that my friend is the question Spoiler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Convincing John Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 1 hour ago, ilduce39 said: Considering Horvat was the only decent young piece we’re actually not sitting that bad after 7 years. The top 6 looks decent and with Hughes/Rathbone/Juolevi there’s at least some hope on D. Then a gem in Demko between the pipes - a lot of good pieces in place. My biggest qualm is that I’d have preferred to build from the net out (Demko was a great start) but I guess “BPA” dictated moves like Boeser, Petey, Podkolzin... and the time we went with the D man in Juolevi didn’t work out vs Tkachuk. I’d throw, handcuffed to the cap for the next 2 years as a Qualm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertuzzipunch Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 7 minutes ago, Convincing John said: I’d throw, handcuffed to the cap for the next 2 years as a Qualm One more year now 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now