Similarities With VAN & OTT

[Nuxfanabroad]

Would say it'll be intriguing watching these two squads, as they evolve going forwards. Ottawa suddenly shifted more youth into their blueline, 2/3rds through this season, & sure appeared better for it. Van's not far behind, & in a yr or two they both should have a young(ish) D-core.

 

Whenever you have an abundance of cap space, it seems far easier to swing a bunch of deals/promote some youth, if a GM wants to change tack. They've had that, the past few seasons; as for Van, that should be in the cards soon.

 

They SOLD harrrd(for vets). We didn't. So they employed a draft-shotgun in June; whereas JB has had to throw darts. Everyone should agree it'll be interesting comparing the top prospects from these two orgs. Who will time the vet/youth transition more seamlessly? How well will this translate to contracts?

 

Would say for Cdn fanchises, WPG's situation might also bear some interesting comparisons with Van. The other 4 seem to have been built/are composed quite differently.

 

***********************:

 

Decades back an experienced driver advised me one should look as far ahead as poss, while observing all around you. I assume the odd rear-view glance is natural too? In this sense, decent driving is a good comparable to GM'ing a younger, re-(thingy?), NHL squad. Worth mentioning, as I believe a sizeable number of our fanbase seem to focus their all-knowing glare exclusively on the here & now.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Nuxfanabroad

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

It’s an interesting comparison. I like our young core better, as far as the current roster NHLers, but I have to tip my hat to Ottawa’s superior prospect pool. The Sens also hold a greater stockpile of picks, especially in 2022. And as far as trend lines go, the Sens’ trajectory probably looks a bit better (or, at least a more typical and smooth looking upward trend—but they also had nowhere else to go but up ), versus our crash back down to earth this year, after looking like we were on the upswing last season.

 

Both teams have many of the starting pieces in place (I think our group is more complete, however) to build around and construct a contending roster, but both teams also could easily fail in that task. Time will tell. In the hands of the right person, either team could be built up into a Cup winner, but with the wrong decisions, their fans could be forced to watch the prime years of their young talent wasted, and face many more years of futility and disappointment (I’m always such an optimist ).

[Phil_314]

I think current forward group-wise we're deeper (top 6, plus Podkolzin + Motte vs. Ottawa's which is still emerging but not as strong) and they currently don't have someone like Demko (who can steal games).  In turn we don't have a true #1D like Chabot who's capable in all situations, and their prospect pool is deeper (wonder if they could do a TBL style mass migration of rookies up from the minors and make a quick climb).

[Nuxfanabroad]

50 minutes ago, Phil_314 said:

I think current forward group-wise we're deeper (top 6, plus Podkolzin + Motte vs. Ottawa's which is still emerging but not as strong) and they currently don't have someone like Demko (who can steal games).  In turn we don't have a true #1D like Chabot who's capable in all situations, and their prospect pool is deeper (wonder if they could do a TBL style mass migration of rookies up from the minors and make a quick climb).

At a certain point have to ask, how many young stars is too many?! How can they work it with the cap? It's a nice prob to have, but will be interesting to see how they deal with young, (perhaps malcontents?) who can't squeeze in with the main club..maybe like Drouin, early days with TBay.

 

I like they've crammed the D with young talent. Bang for buck, a good way to build a perennial contender. As well, blueliners seem to require more time to compete at the highest level. If they have excess there, usually impressive D-prospects will also fetch a nice return.

 

If Dorion is sharp, he might turn this abundance of young assets into 2(or even 3?) waves of arriving ELC, large-truck deliveries to the NHL roster.

[wai_lai416]

what similarity are there with the ott and the canucks? one could argue their rebuild started later.. i mean the last time we had playoff success was 2011 and them was 2017 to the conference final then they went on a full embraced rebuild while we are in a half tank half retool going no where mode since 2014?

[Phil_314]

1 hour ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

At a certain point have to ask, how many young stars is too many?! How can they work it with the cap? It's a nice prob to have, but will be interesting to see how they deal with young, (perhaps malcontents?) who can't squeeze in with the main club..maybe like Drouin, early days with TBay.

 

I like they've crammed the D with young talent. Bang for buck, a good way to build a perennial contender. As well, blueliners seem to require more time to compete at the highest level. If they have excess there, usually impressive D-prospects will also fetch a nice return.

 

If Dorion is sharp, he might turn this abundance of young assets into 2(or even 3?) waves of arriving ELC, large-truck deliveries to the NHL roster.

Agreed that their phase of development I think they need to have that critical mass of assets to go with the emerging core, or to acquire what they don't have.  Their bottom 6, RD and goalie still need improvement but it's better to have proverbial arrows in their quiver that they can dispense to meet other roster needs.

[khay]

Ottawa has better overall prospect depth. Their defence seems like it will be better than ours. Our defence, outside of Hughes and Rathbone, don't really have a surefire top 4 prospect. We have Juolevi and Woo as potential top 4Ds.

 

Our goaltending is better. We have a young established starter, their guys aren't established yet.

 

We have a game breaker in Petey that I don't think they have yet, although Stutzle seems like he will be that for Ottawa.

 

I think (or believe) we have better top 6 forward group. With Hoglander showing so much potential and Podkolzin is likely at a similar level as Hoglander. Add Boeser, Horvat, and Miller and we have young but pretty well balanced top 6.

 

Our bottom 6 is a work in progress. Right now, other than Motte and Highmore, everything is up in the air. We don't got a 3C nor a 4C. We don't even have many wingers that can play at a high level consistently. 

 

[Tom Sestito]

Meddling owners and stupid GMs.

 

Yep.

Edited May 16, 2021 by Tom Sestito

[Drakrami]

Pretty sad we are being compared to the Senators when their rebuild started around 2018... Ours was like 2014 or even before..

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Drakrami said:

Pretty sad we are being compared to the Senators when their rebuild started around 2018... Ours was like 2014 or even before..

Meh, Burrows, Hansen and Bieksa exodus's in 2017 was the end of the re-tool and into the next phase.   

 

The Canucks would of had to sell the Sedins, Burrows, Kesler etc before the made free agency or legacy deals to properly compare to OTT in their cycle, so around 2008-2010.  

 

 

As far as rebuild phase, teams missed four years in a row, both teams bottomed out, and both teams ended up with two of the deepest youth groups in the NHL.   CAR is another one, they missed 9 in a row.   Comparing the four years side by side it's tough to say which group is going to be better but if i had to choose i'd say OTT, all those extra picks, it seems like they have one or two on every line already.   And quite a few have come and gone as well from before their slide.    As an organization they are an excellent drafting team.   And had two step right in BT and Steutzle.    We might end up with the best player in EP...they've got a lot of guys that can fill the net by committee though.   

 

The biggest comp is both teams have gone through a cycle of having one of the best pools in the league for a 3 year stretch.   Ours was bookended with a 9 and 14 (most recent).   Hard to say for sure yet.  

 

 

Canucks, OTT and CAR have had the best groups over a sustained number of years recently, CAR, TO and WNP before  us...in that order. 

[IBatch]

QH - Chabot

EP - Stuetzle

BB - BT

Hogs - Norris?

Podz -  Batherson?

Demko - ??

Rathbone - Brannstrom

 

OJ               - Pinto, White, Formenton

 

Out

 

JV, AG 

    

It's pretty safe to say both teams have an abundance of youth.    OTT i'm pretty sure has more overall NHLers coming in or already there, which includes guys from during our re-tool phase given Chabot and Demko/BB ages.    Won't take long to see how this works out, OTT gave up on a lot of excellent players to make this happen - Stone, EK and Zibanejad....PAG and others 

 

Both teams have Horvat, Miller aged guys in that respect ours can be considered part of our existing core.   But wouldn't really put them there either because they could be recycled...especially if we get a new manager. 

Edited May 16, 2021 by IBatch

[IBatch]

OTT is going to become one of the funner stories in the NHL in one or two years when the battle of ON heats up again.   Going to be hilarious watching them scewer Dubas's group on an annual basis come playoff time again, especially considering TO will be in their peak prime then.   

 

They've got a mean pack mentality.  BT could retire as being the best pick that year... remember Holland warning teams in a an article pre-draft that he's like a 6'3" Claude Lemieux, and not to sleep on him as he could be a HHOF best pick available type (there was some rumblings he could slip out of the top ten) ...and so far that's pretty much exactly what i've seen.   Already like him more then i did his Dad, had zero respect for that goof.   His game already shines, and will shine even higher in the post season.   

 

Hate to admit it but that's exactly how to do a full rebuild in about the quickest amount of time these days.    It takes some tough decisions, OTT could have easily re-tooled around Stone, Zinbanejad and EK, and Chabot for that matter.    Hoffman...well let's just say they pulled the plug, the dressing room was a disaster.   They did try with Duchene...but didn't commit long. 

 

NYR...well they aren't rebuilding or re-tooling but a bit of both lol.   Lucky too.   

 

Most rebuilds these days take parts of two cores to bite.    Or two complete rebuilds and part of the third even.    It just is what it is.  It's also why teams are extremely hesitant to go to those lengths and continuously re-tool for as long as possible.  

Edited May 16, 2021 by IBatch

[IBatch]

As far a rebuilding goes, a team is doomed if they can't draft a core.   Our team has.   When we kept slipping in the draft year after year, we ended up drafting like we picked in the top 3-4 anyways.   JB hasn't done a perfect job, but in this regard he's done what we needed the most. 

[spook007]

12 minutes ago, IBatch said:

OTT is going to become one of the funner stories in the NHL in one or two years when the battle of ON heats up again.   Going to be hilarious watching them scewer Dubas's group on an annual basis come playoff time again, especially considering TO will be in their peak prime then.   

 

They've got a mean pack mentality.  BT could retire as being the best pick that year... remember Holland warning teams in a an article pre-draft that he's like a 6'3" Claude Lemieux, and not to sleep on him as he could be a HHOF best pick available type (there was some rumblings he could slip out of the top ten) ...and so far that's pretty much exactly what i've seen.   Already like him more then i did his Dad, had zero respect for that goof.   His game already shines, and will shine even higher in the post season.   

 

Hate to admit it but that's exactly how to do a full rebuild in about the quickest amount of time these days.    It takes some tough decisions, OTT could have easily re-tooled around Stone, Zinbanejad and EK, and Chabot for that matter.    Hoffman...well let's just say they pulled the plug, the dressing room was a disaster.   They did try with Duchene...but didn't commit long. 

 

NYR...well they aren't rebuilding or re-tooling but a bit of both lol.   Lucky too.   

 

Most rebuilds these days take parts of two cores to bite.    Or two complete rebuilds and part of the third even.    It just is what it is.  It's also why teams are extremely hesitant to go to those lengths and continuously re-tool for as long as possible.  

Ottawa has done a better job than expected. Rags got lucky in the draft... wouldn’t mind trying to win a draft or draft top 2. 

[IBatch]

17 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Ottawa has done a better job than expected. Rags got lucky in the draft... wouldn’t mind trying to win a draft or draft top 2. 

That would for sure help wouldn't it.   Would be nice to for once actually draft a player that can play at 18...was it Linden the last time that's happened?

[spook007]

37 minutes ago, IBatch said:

That would for sure help wouldn't it.   Would be nice to for once actually draft a player that can play at 18...was it Linden the last time that's happened?

Don’t recall anyone else... imagine getting a proper player to slot straight into the line up... Would be just what the doctor ordered... bring it on 

[Alflives]

Really big and nasty mosquitoes.  No that’s only Ottawa.

 

Realky cold and snowy winters.  No that’s only Ottawa. 

 

Really hot and humid summers.  That’s only Ottawa too.

 

Beautiful ocean views and beaches.  No, that’s only Vancouver.

 

Magestic mountains in a postcard setting.  No that’s only us too.  

 

Not seeing much similar between Vancouver and Ottawa.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sbriggs]

12 hours ago, khay said:

Ottawa has better overall prospect depth. Their defence seems like it will be better than ours. Our defence, outside of Hughes and Rathbone, don't really have a surefire top 4 prospect. We have Juolevi and Woo as potential top 4Ds.

 

Our goaltending is better. We have a young established starter, their guys aren't established yet.

 

We have a game breaker in Petey that I don't think they have yet, although Stutzle seems like he will be that for Ottawa.

 

I think (or believe) we have better top 6 forward group. With Hoglander showing so much potential and Podkolzin is likely at a similar level as Hoglander. Add Boeser, Horvat, and Miller and we have young but pretty well balanced top 6.

 

Our bottom 6 is a work in progress. Right now, other than Motte and Highmore, everything is up in the air. We don't got a 3C nor a 4C. We don't even have many wingers that can play at a high level consistently. 

 

I think your mistaken to think Juolevi is not a surefire top 4

[khay]

40 minutes ago, Sbriggs said:

I think your mistaken to think Juolevi is not a surefire top 4

I hope you are right. I support and cheer on OJ fully.

 

I just don't think we can say that he is a surefire top 4 just yet. He's got a good offensive instincts and moves the puck well but his defensive game needs work. For one, his (what was once highly touted) skating has taken step back through all those injuries and defensive zone coverage including lateral movements and turning needs to improve.

 

I see Juolevi becoming an all around top 4D like Edler at some point. We've seen some positive signs this season, I hope he can build on that.

 

 

[Nuxfanabroad]

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Edited September 7, 2022 by Nuxfanabroad