Reflections from the newest developments

[ShawnAntoski]

27 minutes ago, vannuck59 said:

Have you watched Tampa's D

Under Green/Baumer we might not want that D (?).

[ChuckNORRIS4Cup]

14 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Maybe yes and maybe no... it does take two to tango... and Virtanen showing up totally out of shape each pre season, whete other spent the summers trying to get into tip top shape, said it all to me.... 

I’ve supported him throughout, but he never gave that extra notchthat could have turned him into a star... that is not on the coach...

I think it was 2 years ago and the rumor was Virtanen actually did work out in the summer got into decent shape came to camp looking good, even reporters recognized he looked leaner and stronger, then Green couple days later is scratching him because he's supposedly out of shape, wait what... Greens a clown, he's just had a hard on for Virtanen since day one, and imo ruined Virtanen it was obvious this year watching Virtanen he just doesn't care anymore, he got a new contract and decided I'm going to not care anymore, because he's done with Green and unfortunately as long as Green is still here Virtanen does need to be gone he doesn't care to play under Green anymore. And with the other crap that is going on with him now, he won't be back anyways, but it's to bad because there definitely was potential there in him if he was only coached to improve his strengths he already had instead of neglecting them and trying to turn him into a different player they never drafted for.

[ShawnAntoski]

1 hour ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

I think it was 2 years ago and the rumor was Virtanen actually did work out in the summer got into decent shape came to camp looking good, even reporters recognized he looked leaner and stronger, then Green couple days later is scratching him because he's supposedly out of shape, wait what... Greens a clown, he's just had a hard on for Virtanen since day one, and imo ruined Virtanen it was obvious this year watching Virtanen he just doesn't care anymore, he got a new contract and decided I'm going to not care anymore, because he's done with Green and unfortunately as long as Green is still here Virtanen does need to be gone he doesn't care to play under Green anymore. And with the other crap that is going on with him now, he won't be back anyways, but it's to bad because there definitely was potential there in him if he was only coached to improve his strengths he already had instead of neglecting them and trying to turn him into a different player they never drafted for.

Yeah, would had preferred the roster with a different coach but the ink is dry and with the stigma of the allegations against JV, good chance the PR department had already made the trade for this offseason.  If true, Green really did a good job mind fracking JV - sad. 

 

Tragic end to the JV & Green saga, with more Green as the only remaining part - smh; hope this situation will have a positive effect on JV moving forward.

Edited May 23, 2021 by ShawnAntoski

[kloubek]

33 minutes ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

I'm not mad at him for picking Virtanen I was in favor of it and was a huge supporter of Virtanen, I do question how he was managed here though...

 

....and I blame Green for that because his coaching system is more of a defensive style then offense style

It could be argued that Jake was thrust into the NHL maybe a bit too early, but by this point I don't blame Jake's lack of progression on anyone other than Jake. We've had many players go through the same system with reasonable success. His repeated coming to camp out of shape along with several other questionabke actions speaks volumes to his commitment level. Even the eye test shows he's isn't as strong as he should be in puck battles nor forechecking.  He looks like a guy out there who just doesn't give a crap. And that's on him. For the record, I was also supportive of the pick.

 

As for Greens coaching style, I don't see where you get the idea he is a defense-first coach. Yes, he demands a 2-way game but at the same time he encourages deep play and pinching by the d. Regardless, my slight on Green is that his systems just don't often work. Our PP is predictable and our defensive structure is lousy. We are a giveaway machine. Now, this may be largely due to the assistants but as head coach, it's on Green to find systems and assistants that work, and for years now he has failed. I don't know what the magic cure could or should be, but if he wants to be our coach for more than 2 years, he better figure it out quickly.

[ChuckNORRIS4Cup]

2 minutes ago, kloubek said:

It could be argued that Jake was thrust into the NHL maybe a bit too early, but by this point I don't blame Jake's lack of progression on anyone other than Jake. We've had many players go through the same system with reasonable success. His repeated coming to camp out of shape along with several other questionabke actions speaks volumes to his commitment level. Even the eye test shows he's isn't as strong as he should be in puck battles nor forechecking.  He looks like a guy out there who just doesn't give a crap. And that's on him. For the record, I was also supportive of the pick.

 

As for Greens coaching style, I don't see where you get the idea he is a defense-first coach. Yes, he demands a 2-way game but at the same time he encourages deep play and pinching by the d. Regardless, my slight on Green is that his systems just don't often work. Our PP is predictable and our defensive structure is lousy. We are a giveaway machine. Now, this may be largely due to the assistants but as head coach, it's on Green to find systems and assistants that work, and for years now he has failed. I don't know what the magic cure could or should be, but if he wants to be our coach for more than 2 years, he better figure it out quickly.

The amount of games this team has been outshot season after season and even after being outshot in those games they have also accumulated more blocked shots then the other team as well in those games, how is that not a defensive style of game... If you're constantly being outshot in most games and relying on your goalie to keep you in the games, where's the offensive style....

[Fred65]

1 minute ago, kloubek said:

It could be argued that Jake was thrust into the NHL maybe a bit too early, but by this point I don't blame Jake's lack of progression on anyone other than Jake. We've had many players go through the same system with reasonable success. His repeated coming to camp out of shape along with several other questionabke actions speaks volumes to his commitment level. Even the eye test shows he's isn't as strong as he should be in puck battles nor forechecking.  He looks like a guy out there who just doesn't give a crap. And that's on him. For the record, I was also supportive of the pick.

 

As for Greens coaching style, I don't see where you get the idea he is a defense-first coach. Yes, he demands a 2-way game but at the same time he encourages deep play and pinching by the d. Regardless, my slight on Green is that his systems just don't often work. Our PP is predictable and our defensive structure is lousy. We are a giveaway machine. Now, this may be largely due to the assistants but as head coach, it's on Green to find systems and assistants that work, and for years now he has failed. I don't know what the magic cure could or should be, but if he wants to be our coach for more than 2 years, he better figure it out quickly.

Greens system is a fire drill IMO, he seems to be a good straight forward guy, but this insistence of having the D pinch is simply not working. There needs to be more emphasis on D it's easier to do that then make rushing defensemen from guys not capable of it. I just watched Belarus beat Sweden in the World Championships and Kazakhstan beat Finland with defence

[johngould21]

30 minutes ago, kloubek said:

It could be argued that Jake was thrust into the NHL maybe a bit too early, but by this point I don't blame Jake's lack of progression on anyone other than Jake. We've had many players go through the same system with reasonable success. His repeated coming to camp out of shape along with several other questionabke actions speaks volumes to his commitment level. Even the eye test shows he's isn't as strong as he should be in puck battles nor forechecking.  He looks like a guy out there who just doesn't give a crap. And that's on him. For the record, I was also supportive of the pick.

 

As for Greens coaching style, I don't see where you get the idea he is a defense-first coach. Yes, he demands a 2-way game but at the same time he encourages deep play and pinching by the d. Regardless, my slight on Green is that his systems just don't often work. Our PP is predictable and our defensive structure is lousy. We are a giveaway machine. Now, this may be largely due to the assistants but as head coach, it's on Green to find systems and assistants that work, and for years now he has failed. I don't know what the magic cure could or should be, but if he wants to be our coach for more than 2 years, he better figure it out quickly.

He isn't a D first guy at all. I think the pieces are coming, at least we got a glimpse of that with Rathbone and OJ getting shots in the lineup. Those kids can make those 50 foot passes look easy. This team scores as many off the rush goals as the rest of the league. The problem is as you say the D zone coverage is terrible. Is it personnel? All it takes is one player in that zone to muff a pass, or not get it out off the glass, and the countless times the puck carrier turns back into the zone. Those, are brain freezes. Or, have whichever goalie freeze the puck to start over. That's when the 2 minute shifts take place. I'm not sold on Schmidt, in fact I don't think he was an upgrade on Stetcher, but, let's give him the benefit of the doubt and see what he can do in a "normal" season. In fact let's see what the entire team can do in a "normal" season. As for the PP, every team in the league uses that drop pass, and basically the same set up. Practice time might help that too!
 

[johngould21]

1 hour ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

I think it was 2 years ago and the rumor was Virtanen actually did work out in the summer got into decent shape came to camp looking good, even reporters recognized he looked leaner and stronger, then Green couple days later is scratching him because he's supposedly out of shape, wait what... Greens a clown, he's just had a hard on for Virtanen since day one, and imo ruined Virtanen it was obvious this year watching Virtanen he just doesn't care anymore, he got a new contract and decided I'm going to not care anymore, because he's done with Green and unfortunately as long as Green is still here Virtanen does need to be gone he doesn't care to play under Green anymore. And with the other crap that is going on with him now, he won't be back anyways, but it's to bad because there definitely was potential there in him if he was only coached to improve his strengths he already had instead of neglecting them and trying to turn him into a different player they never drafted for.

Honest question. How many times did you see this player play to his strengths, let alone improve on his strengths?

[ShawnAntoski]

On 5/23/2021 at 11:44 AM, kloubek said:

It could be argued that Jake was thrust into the NHL maybe a bit too early, but by this point I don't blame Jake's lack of progression on anyone other than Jake. We've had many players go through the same system with reasonable success. His repeated coming to camp out of shape along with several other questionabke actions speaks volumes to his commitment level. Even the eye test shows he's isn't as strong as he should be in puck battles nor forechecking.  He looks like a guy out there who just doesn't give a crap. And that's on him. For the record, I was also supportive of the pick.

 

As for Greens coaching style, I don't see where you get the idea he is a defense-first coach. Yes, he demands a 2-way game but at the same time he encourages deep play and pinching by the d. Regardless, my slight on Green is that his systems just don't often work. Our PP is predictable and our defensive structure is lousy. We are a giveaway machine. Now, this may be largely due to the assistants but as head coach, it's on Green to find systems and assistants that work, and for years now he has failed. I don't know what the magic cure could or should be, but if he wants to be our coach for more than 2 years, he better figure it out quickly.

Good points, the first year of his contract (imo) is a wash and the last year - he will demand more veterans to fill the roster cause the issues is always the talent rather than his system - based on the presser with JB. 

 

Aggressive = Desperation or Band Aide solutions.

 

Ditto, on JV - he should just had focused on the things he can control, just like: EP, BB, QH & Hogz were they didn't even give Green a chance to sit them; whilst, continueing there development playing on the ice rather than sitting on the sideline.

Edited May 25, 2021 by ShawnAntoski

[ChuckNORRIS4Cup]

1 hour ago, johngould21 said:

Honest question. How many times did you see this player play to his strengths, let alone improve on his strengths?

A couple years ago actually before covid seasons, when he was given the opportunity to play in a top 6 role I believe someone was injured, he was actually doing well, but then Green decided to demote him again for some bizarre reason when he was clicking with Horvat, and it has been downhill ever since then, you could see it in Virtanens game this year he just doesn't care anymore 

 

I'll even add I guess big Jim saw improvements in him to give him a raise and an extension 

Edited May 23, 2021 by ChuckNORRIS4Cup

[canuck73_3]

1 minute ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

A couple years ago actually before covid seasons, when he was given the opportunity to play in a top 6 role I believe someone was injured, he was actually doing well, but then Green decided to demote him again for some bizarre reason when he was clicking with Horvat, and it has been downhill ever since then, you could see it in Virtanens game this year he just doesn't care anymore 

That is some revisionist history cause he has dropped the ball in the top 6 frequently. 
 

As it stands he is a mediocre North-South player with conditioning and legal issues. 

[ChuckNORRIS4Cup]

2 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

That is some revisionist history cause he has dropped the ball in the top 6 frequently. 
 

As it stands he is a mediocre North-South player with conditioning and legal issues. 

But you support Benning, and say this guy has dropped the ball in the top 6 frequently, so why did Benning resign him? The guy you support, resigned this guy why resign a guy who drops the ball in that role all the time? 

[canuck73_3]

1 minute ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

But you support Benning, and say this guy has dropped the ball in the top 6 frequently, so why did Benning resign him? The guy you support, resigned this guy why resign a guy who drops the ball in that role all the time? 

Because he can be a good top 9 forward hence him getting paid like one.

[ChuckNORRIS4Cup]

1 minute ago, canuck73_3 said:

Because he can be a good top 9 forward hence him getting paid like one.

A good top 9 who in your eyes has conditioning and legal issues now lol okay keep drinking that kool-aid 

[canuck73_3]

1 minute ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

A good top 9 who in your eyes has conditioning and legal issues now lol okay keep drinking that kool-aid 

He was signed before legal issues. Stating facts isn’t drinking kool-aid. 

[johngould21]

14 minutes ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

A couple years ago actually before covid seasons, when he was given the opportunity to play in a top 6 role I believe someone was injured, he was actually doing well, but then Green decided to demote him again for some bizarre reason when he was clicking with Horvat, and it has been downhill ever since then, you could see it in Virtanens game this year he just doesn't care anymore 

 

I'll even add I guess big Jim saw improvements in him to give him a raise and an extension 

I too remember a game when he was out in the last minute of the game protecting a lead, does that count too? Speaking for myself, I've never seen consistency in his game to warrant a top 6 role, ever! Even this past debacle of a season before the sh*% hit the fan, he couldn't crack a depleted lineup.

[ChuckNORRIS4Cup]

19 minutes ago, johngould21 said:

I too remember a game when he was out in the last minute of the game protecting a lead, does that count too? Speaking for myself, I've never seen consistency in his game to warrant a top 6 role, ever! Even this past debacle of a season before the sh*% hit the fan, he couldn't crack a depleted lineup.

It's obvious after the playoffs last year Benning saw a top 6 role for him hence the resigning over Toffoli, then season started and Green had him on 3rd line again, had Gaudette playing the PP over him, Green just couldn't let this hate for Virtanen go away but right there is when Virtanen imo said forget this anymore I'm just going to glide this contract out. What's funny all of a sudden Virtanen got bumped up to top 6 my gut is telling me Benning said something to Green and they gave him the bump, but by this time Virtanen had already given up when he was in that top 6 role this year he just didn't look like her cared anymore, until around the time leading up to the trade deadline time, I believe his agent talked to him and had him step up his game to help maybe move him, but nothing obviously happened the Bennett trade never happened. We saw some glimpses of him driving hard to the net and generate some chances, and scored a couple to help him get moved hopefully, but since he never got moved it was back to not caring, then covid and then legal issues, basically done.

Edited May 23, 2021 by ChuckNORRIS4Cup

[ChuckNORRIS4Cup]

Mistake post. 

Edited May 23, 2021 by ChuckNORRIS4Cup

[canuck73_3]

3 minutes ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

It's obvious after the playoffs last year Benning saw a top 6 role for him hence the resigning over Toffoli, then season started and Green had him on 3rd line again, had Gaudette playing the PP over him, Green just couldn't let this hate for Virtanen go away but right there is when Virtanens imo said forget this anymore I'm just going to glide this contract out. What's funny all of a sudden Virtanen got bumped up to top 6 my gut is telling me Benning said something to Green and they gave him the bump, but by this time Virtanen had already given up when he was in that top 6 role this year he just didn't look like her cared anymore, until around the time leading up to the trade deadline time, I believe his agent talked to him and had him step up his game to help maybe move him, but nothing obviously happened the Bennett trade never happened. We saw some glimpses of him driving hard to the net and generate some chances, and scored a couple to help him get moved hopefully, but since he never got mover d it was back to not caring, then covid and then legal issues, basically done.

Tyler Toffoli signed with Montreal October 12 2020

 

Jake Virtanen signed October 22 2020. 
 

but do keep saying Virtanen was signed over Toffoli as if it is fact. 

[johngould21]

2 minutes ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said:

It's obvious after the playoffs last year Benning saw a top 6 role for him hence the resigning over Toffoli, then season started and Green had him on 3rd line again, had Gaudette playing the PP over him, Green just couldn't let this hate for Virtanen go away but right there is when Virtanens imo said forget this anymore I'm just going to glide this contract out. What's funny all of a sudden Virtanen got bumped up to top 6 my gut is telling me Benning said something to Green and they gave him the bump, but by this time Virtanen had already given up when he was in that top 6 role this year he just didn't look like her cared anymore, until around the time leading up to the trade deadline time, I believe his agent talked to him and had him step up his game to help maybe move him, but nothing obviously happened the Bennett trade never happened. We saw some glimpses of him driving hard to the net and generate some chances, and scored a couple to help him get moved hopefully, but since he never got mover d it was back to not caring, then covid and then legal issues, basically done.

He was "done" before that unfortunately. If as you say, Benning had to talk to Green, which I call bs, even though I'll give you credit for speculating, and Jake was already done, why would he sign a "new" contract with the Canucks this past season?