[Trade] nashville/kings arvidsson To LA: Arvidsson To NAS: 2021 2nd RD, 2022 3rd RD

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, awalk said:

Imagine doing a full re-build and leveraging cap space to gain assets. Sigh...

The Kings are literally halting their full rebuild by trading out picks for a veteran here.  
 

Good trade for the Kings to get out of their rut. Their youngsters haven’t arrived yet though.  Doing a full rebuild would require them tanking for another year or two. 

[mll]

 

Edited July 1, 2021 by mll

[Nucker 67]

28 and under

 

Arvidsson

Kempe

Iaffalo

Byfield

Turcotte

Vilardi

Kupari

Kaliyev

Madden

Maatta

Roy

Bjornfot

Clague

 

I think LA will be okay. Draft picks and drafting well are important.

[ShawnAntoski]

31 minutes ago, Alflives said:

It’s either continue to rebuild through the draft, or trade high picks for older players in hopes to get better faster.  Clearly the Kings are choosing the latter.  They are going to be slightly better, which only gets them out of the top ten picks in the two coming drafts.  They don’t have a young core yet.  Bad trade, because it’s bad timing.  

Maybe cause it seems Blake has somewhat expited the timeline (a tad) based on the rumour that some of the vets are asking him for one last shot to compete; regardless, they have cap moving forward to add (if necessary) and a pipeline full of cheap & talented prospects to fill out there rosters.  Like I stated, this will come down to leadership and on the ice, it will be up to (mostly) Mclelland to put it all together.  Seems a like a pretty good strategy from there POV (imo), to play there youths with there long time vets (that was also developed in there system and won) which gives the youths some legit experience and to gauge how far along the youths are.  If it flops cause the youths are not ready (yet) then good chance VA will be getting shopped again but the one year experience for there new core will be alot more valuable.

Edited July 1, 2021 by ShawnAntoski

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

28 and under

 

Arvidsson

Kempe

Iaffalo

Byfield

Turcotte

Vilardi

Kupari

Kaliyev

Madden

Maatta

Roy

Bjornfot

Clague

 

I think LA will be okay. Draft picks and drafting well are important.

Exactly, those young guys are just okay.  They don’t have the elite players in that younger group needed to be a true competitive club.  They will get to mediocre too soon now, and draft outside the top ten (where it’s mostly luck to get an elite guy) and get stuck in neutral.  Too bad Blake is giving in to the pressure to get better so soon.  The Kings are a team our young core will continue to be superior to for the next decade.  Win win!  

[Nucker 67]

Wow, Poughty still has 6 years at $11,000,000

 

 

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

So what you are saying is they were so incompetent that they were able to accrue a tonne of draft picks without having to sell off their star players. 

Hahaha come on 

 

Who’s going to take on 6 more years at 11 mil/year for Doughty? 
 

Kopitar at 10 mil/year?  
 

Dustin Brown at 6 mil/year?  
 

That’s why those players are still with them. 

[Bertuzzipunch]

11 minutes ago, mll said:

 

This is good to show the people that think GMs wont make trades to try and get assets for someone they know will be picked by seattle. 

[Dazzle]

1 hour ago, awalk said:

Imagine trading declining players for draft picks... sigh... 

This isn't NHL 2021

Edited July 1, 2021 by Dazzle

[Dazzle]

2 hours ago, -Vintage Canuck- said:

 

@Bertuzzipunch Thanks for editing

 

A good deal for both teams, I think.

Edited July 1, 2021 by Dazzle

[coryberg]

Good value on the trade from the Kings side but a real head scratcher.... I would be trying to move doughty and Kopitar. Then take cap dumps on short contracts to get more picks/prospect's. No way this team competes for a cup in Kopitar + doughty's prime.

[Gurn]

59 minutes ago, mll said:

 

Minor quibbble, they would not lose Viktor for nothing, they would get

 $4,250,000 in cap space

owner pockets his share of the expansion fee

 

They get more this way, but were already better than nothing.

Edited July 1, 2021 by gurn

[5nothincanucksohno]

27 minutes ago, ShawnAntoski said:

Of course, there is always an exception to any rules but in general, other teams are still implementing a tanking strategy in a LOSING SEASON with great long term result - like with any strategies it always comes down to the team of leaders to implement & sell the strategies to the owner(s), players and fans.  It is all about managing risk managing risk and maximimizing assets.

 

There are really no guarantees in life unless you are talking about death & taxes.

It is not an exception to a rule in my view, the mechanics of tanking are given way too much weight by many in terms of that being the key to success (i.e. a SC win). Yes, a team needs to draft a few core pieces in the first round but late round drafting, UFA signings, trades, and cap management all play just as key a role in actually winning a SC. For every team that tanks and wins, there are more that tank and fail.

 

If teams can draft 2 core forwards, 1 core goalie, and 1 core d-man (d-man usually in the 2nd or 3rd round), they are in good shape (picking number 1 helps but I don't view it as a determining factor). 

 

Pit (Crosby and Letang in 2005, Malkin in 2004, Fleury 2003) - Cup wins in 2009, 2016, 2017.

Chigago (Toews 2006, Kane 2007, Crawford 2003, Keith 2002) - Cup wins 2010, 2013, 2015

LA (Brown 2003, Kopitar 2005, Quick 2005, Doughty 2008) - Cup wins 2012, 2014

Washington, St Louis, & Tampa were slow builds

 

Canucks

 

Demko 2014, Boeser 2015, EP 2017, Hughes 2018 - Cup window (typically four to 8 years after last piece drafted) 2022 - 2028

 

1) Drafting Core - Grade A - they have done well in drafting EP, Boeser, Hughes, and Demko. They likley still need to hit big on one more forward (ideally a centre) - hopefully they can find at #9 this year or trade back to acquire multiple picks (if a center and d-man are there). Prefer they stick with #9 and draft BPA (ideally it is a center).

 

2) Later round drafting - Grade B - they have done well at forward and goalie (Demko) but failed in terms of d-men. They need two of their existing or future draft picks to pan out in a big way (Rathbone, Woo,  2021 picks, etc.).

 

3) UFA signings - Grade D - obviously this has been a huge weak point - their NHL level scouting appears to be very weak. I understand that the team wanted mentors (which I agree with) but they signed way too many vets. Now that the core players are beginning to take a bigger role, I expect the team will avoid older UFAs (hopefully). Happy with one year deals but no more multiple year contracts. Team needs to improve significantly in this area - focus on quality and value rather than quantity.

 

4) Trades - Grade B minus - I don't think their trade history has been all that bad. It has been average with a couple big wins in Miller and Pearson. Regardless, they will likely need two more great trades (not necessarily wins vs. the other team but in terms of acquiring the right players for this team e.g. big steady d-man, a top six winger, etc.).

 

5) Cap Managent - Grade D - the last few years have been poor but the cap will open up next year and the team needs to use it wisely so that they can achieve their goal - SC win.

 

Their biggest summer is 2022 but what they do this summer will be key to setting up a successful 2022 summer. The exectutive team has been too rigid in terms of their UFA signings and cap management - there is no doubt they need to be more creative when it comes to acquiring players.

 

I think their only goal should be to acquire a top six forward and a d-man this summer from teams worried about the expansion draft. All UFA signing should be one year deals. If they do that, they should have a solid year and be well prepared for the summer of 2022 - without having to tank.

 

 

[EddieVedder]

1 hour ago, NUCKER67 said:

28 and under

 

Arvidsson

Kempe

Iaffalo

Byfield

Turcotte

Vilardi

Kupari

Kaliyev

Madden

Maatta

Roy

Bjornfot

Clague

 

I think LA will be okay. Draft picks and drafting well are important.

With Vilardi and Byfield down the middle these guys are going to be a force soon.  

Kopitar and Doughty will be still be effective enough to provide good support by then.  

[Alflives]

Just now, EddieVedder said:

With Vilardi and Byfield down the middle these guys are going to be a force soon.  

Kopitar and Doughty will be still be effective enough to provide good support by then.  

Bustaroo Bonsais.  

[EddieVedder]

8 minutes ago, 5nothincanucksohno said:

It is not an exception to a rule in my view, the mechanics of tanking are given way too much weight by many in terms of that being the key to success (i.e. a SC win). Yes, a team needs to draft a few core pieces in the first round but late round drafting, UFA signings, trades, and cap management all play just as key a role in actually winning a SC. For every team that tanks and wins, there are more that tank and fail.

 

If teams can draft 2 core forwards, 1 core goalie, and 1 core d-man (d-man usually in the 2nd or 3rd round), they are in good shape (picking number 1 helps but I don't view it as a determining factor). 

 

Pit (Crosby and Letang in 2005, Malkin in 2004, Fleury 2003) - Cup wins in 2009, 2016, 2017.

Chigago (Toews 2006, Kane 2007, Crawford 2003, Keith 2002) - Cup wins 2010, 2013, 2015

LA (Brown 2003, Kopitar 2005, Quick 2005, Doughty 2008) - Cup wins 2012, 2014

Washington, St Louis, & Tampa were slow builds

 

Canucks

 

Demko 2014, Boeser 2015, EP 2017, Hughes 2018 - Cup window (typically four to 8 years after last piece drafted) 2022 - 2028

 

1) Drafting Core - Grade A - they have done well in drafting EP, Boeser, Hughes, and Demko. They likley still need to hit big on one more forward (ideally a centre) - hopefully they can find at #9 this year or trade back to acquire multiple picks (if a center and d-man are there). Prefer they stick with #9 and draft BPA (ideally it is a center).

 

2) Later round drafting - Grade B - they have done well at forward and goalie (Demko) but failed in terms of d-men. They need two of their existing or future draft picks to pan out in a big way (Rathbone, Woo,  2021 picks, etc.).

 

3) UFA signings - Grade D - obviously this has been a huge weak point - their NHL level scouting appears to be very weak. I understand that the team wanted mentors (which I agree with) but they signed way too many vets. Now that the core players are beginning to take a bigger role, I expect the team will avoid older UFAs (hopefully). Happy with one year deals but no more multiple year contracts. Team needs to improve significantly in this area - focus on quality and value rather than quantity.

 

4) Trades - Grade B minus - I don't think their trade history has been all that bad. It has been average with a couple big wins in Miller and Pearson. Regardless, they will likely need two more great trades (not necessarily wins vs. the other team but in terms of acquiring the right players for this team e.g. big steady d-man, a top six winger, etc.).

 

5) Cap Managent - Grade D - the last few years have been poor but the cap will open up next year and the team needs to use it wisely so that they can achieve their goal - SC win.

 

Their biggest summer is 2022 but what they do this summer will be key to setting up a successful 2022 summer. The exectutive team has been too rigid in terms of their UFA signings and cap management - there is no doubt they need to be more creative when it comes to acquiring players.

 

I think their only goal should be to acquire a top six forward and a d-man this summer from teams worried about the expansion draft. All UFA signing should be one year deals. If they do that, they should have a solid year and be well prepared for the summer of 2022 - without having to tank.

 

 

 I dont know why we are trying to put Boeser and Hughes in this group. Just because they are in our core, doesnt mean they are core pieces on a contending team.   When you compare the core of contending teams to ours, we come up so short its almost pathetic.  If Hogs and Podz develop into our core, and we draft a legit number one dman, then we can start thinking about comparing us to other contending cores.    

[5nothincanucksohno]

2 minutes ago, EddieVedder said:

 I dont know why we are trying to put Boeser and Hughes in this group. Just because they are in our core, doesnt mean they are core pieces on a contending team.   When you compare the core of contending teams to ours, we come up so short its almost pathetic.  If Hogs and Podz develop into our core, and we draft a legit number one dman, then we can start thinking about comparing us to other contending cores.    

Hence why they still need to hit big on a forward.

 

EP and Demko are in the core no debate.

 

Hughes needs to improve his defensive work but his offence is top end - I am not ready to discard him because he had a bad sophomore campaign. Some of the defensive improvement can come from internal growth (better positioning using his speed) and some will come with overall team improvement. With that being said, as I mentioned, they still need to hit on one or two significant d-men from a draft perspective.

 

Boeser, Podz, Hogs, Horvat are all strong complimentary pieces. 

 

Context is important.

 

[eeeeergh]

Washed up, not worth the cap hit. Good deal for Nashville. 

[wallstreetamigo]

2 hours ago, CRAZY_4_NAZZY said:

Nashville trading Arvidsson makes me speculate that they want to go the 8 players 1 goalie route to protect their top 4 dman.

 

Meaning there are likely more chances to poach a forward out of Nashville depending who they are wanting to protect. Someone like Calle Jarnkrok or Colton Sissons might become available.

Makes sense with the amount of young forwards they have in their system who are ready for a chance.

[EddieVedder]

2 minutes ago, 5nothincanucksohno said:

Hence why they still need to hit big on a forward.

 

EP and Demko are in the core no debate.

 

Hughes needs to improve his defensive work but his offence is top end - I am not ready to discard him because he had a bad sophomore campaign. Some of the defensive improvement can come from internal growth (better positioning using his speed) and some will come with overall team improvement. With that being said, as I mentioned, they still need to hit on one or two significant d-men from a draft perspective.

 

Boeser, Podz, Hogs, Horvat are all strong complimentary pieces. 

 

Context is important.

 

I agree, Horvat, EP, Demko are core..  Hogz and Podz will be.  We need that one Kucherov, Stamkos type dominating game breaking winger.

 

But, we are so far back on the defensive ends, its pathetic.  Tampa has Hedman, Sergachev, Cernak, Mcdonaugh as a top 4... none of our players would crack that top 4.