Diamonds Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 3 hours ago, aGENT said: See, this is nonsense. Other than perhaps true, all around #1D (which there are less than 10 of in the entire league), ALL D will perform better with complementary partners. It's not about "propping players up". It's about putting them in position to succeed. Every player has flaws FYI. They're not robots. Ya, even Cale Makar who was great his rookie year (but had some notable defensive issues) took his game to the next level when he got when paired with Toews. Hedman, Weber, Doughty, and maybe Keith, are the only 4 defenseman I can think of off the top of my head from the past decade that could truly carry any pairing and dominate regardless of who they were paired with. There might be a few others but those are the ones that came to mind. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougieL Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, aGENT said: See, this is nonsense. Other than perhaps true, all around #1D (which there are less than 10 of in the entire league), ALL D will perform better with complementary partners. It's not about "propping players up". It's about putting them in position to succeed. Every player has flaws FYI. They're not robots. You have to understand that some attributes are valued more than others. Speed, and the ability to use it to retrieve pucks and skate it out of the zone is highly valued among dmen. Do you dispute that? This is what OEL lacks in spades. And these dmen are often complemented well by a defensively oriented dman, which tend to cost less. What you are saying is that OEL needs to be paired with a defensively oriented dman. I'm saying that since OEL lacks footspeed, his partner also needs to have the above-mentioned, highly valued attributes. Defensively sound, fast dmen who skate the puck out of the zone well tend to cost a lot and are hard to find, especially those than can play the right side (and no, I'm not faulting OEL for being left-handed). At 7.26m, OEL needs to be bringing more of the premium attributes to the pairing (except right-handedness, obviously) and complementing a dman who brings the less highly valued attributes. How is this even a disputable point? Edited January 14, 2023 by dougieL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted January 14, 2023 Share Posted January 14, 2023 3 hours ago, Diamonds said: Ya, even Cale Makar who was great his rookie year (but had some notable defensive issues) took his game to the next level when he got when paired with Toews. Hedman, Weber, Doughty, and maybe Keith, are the only 4 defenseman I can think of off the top of my head from the past decade that could truly carry any pairing and dominate regardless of who they were paired with. There might be a few others but those are the ones that came to mind. Hughes has carried his partners since losing Tanev. Considering how terrible we’ve been defensively structured, and his poor partners, Hughes has been incredible last season and this one. Close to a ppg, 25+ hard minutes per night, and poor partners. Hughes is great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 15, 2023 Share Posted January 15, 2023 (edited) 36 minutes ago, dougieL said: You have to understand that some attributes are valued more than others. Speed, and the ability to use it to retrieve pucks and skate it out of the zone is highly valued among dmen. Do you dispute that? This is what OEL lacks in spades. And these dmen are often complemented well by a defensively oriented dman, which tend to cost less. What you are saying is that OEL needs to be paired with a defensively oriented dman. I'm saying that since OEL lacks footspeed, his partner also needs to have the above-mentioned, highly valued attributes. Defensively sound, fast dmen who skate the puck out of the zone well tend to cost a lot and are hard to find, especially those than can play the right side (and no, I'm not faulting OEL for being left-handed). At 7.26m, OEL needs to be bringing more of the premium attributes to the pairing (except right-handedness, obviously) and complementing a dman who brings the less highly valued attributes. How is this even a disputable point? Not really. Marino was readily available this summer for a middling prospect ana 3rd and is signed to a $4.4m deal with term. Would have made a great OEL partner (sound defensively, good skater) if we hadn't overcommitted to too many wingers. They're actually one of the easier top 4 D to find and cheapest to contract. We also let one walk a few years ago who's under contract in CAL for $4.5. Edited January 15, 2023 by aGENT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EP Phone Home Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 Would love to see OEL reach 40 points for one of the seasons he is here. Just so we get some sort of value out of him. Don’t see it but would love to be wrong. Half way there with just under half a season to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted January 18, 2023 Share Posted January 18, 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, EP Phone Home said: Would love to see OEL reach 40 points for one of the seasons he is here. Just so we get some sort of value out of him. Don’t see it but would love to be wrong. Half way there with just under half a season to go. I'd rather see OEL getting 15-20 points a season but being reliable defensively then getting 40 seasons and having to continue watching him play like he has this year. I'm honestly shocked with how terrible he's looked to me after how pleasantly surprised I was with his play last year. Even if he gets 40 points this year, unless we see a monumental turn around in his defensively play, I'd still call it a failure of a year from him. Edited January 18, 2023 by Shayster007 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awalk Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 Gonna be great watching Guenther out score teeny tiny Garland for the rest of their careers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coryberg Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 29 minutes ago, awalk said: Gonna be great watching Guenther out score teeny tiny Garland for the rest of their careers. Here's your new teams forum... https://forums.hfboards.com/forums/arizona-coyotes.40/ Bye Felicia! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awalk Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 2 minutes ago, coryberg said: Here's your new teams forum... https://forums.hfboards.com/forums/arizona-coyotes.40/ Bye Felicia! points for using Bye Felicia 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awalk Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 GO TEAM GO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bounce000 Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 Guenther just got demoted to junior, WHAT A BUST! I joke, this trade ruined us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoastcanucks777 Posted February 6, 2023 Share Posted February 6, 2023 1 hour ago, Bounce000 said: Guenther just got demoted to junior, WHAT A BUST! I joke, this trade ruined us. He destroyed a franchise single handedly impressive I say! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BlakeQuinnAndEggs Posted February 6, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted February 6, 2023 In a tenure full of mistakes. Dumbo sure saved his best for last.... Sigh 2 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougieL Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 Man OEL is just awful. Watching him gives me a massive headache. But knowing what we gave up for him, and what he's going to cost for the next 4 (or 8, depending) years after this (already awful) one is seriously next level. Wow. I really wonder if the Sedin's feel bad at all for vouching so hard for him. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coryberg Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 52 minutes ago, dougieL said: Man OEL is just awful. Watching him gives me a massive headache. But knowing what we gave up for him, and what he's going to cost for the next 4 (or 8, depending) years after this (already awful) one is seriously next level. Wow. I really wonder if the Sedin's feel bad at all for vouching so hard for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetterssonOrPeterson Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 benning: "OEL is now our number 1 defenceman" hahahahhahhhahahahhahahhahahahahahahahahhahahahahhahahhahahahahahahhahahhahahahahahahahahhahahahahhahahahahhhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahhahahahahahahahahahahhahah 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougieL Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 1 hour ago, coryberg said: As long as people keep saying that this was a good trade, or OEL is fine and worth ~5m, I'll keep reminding them how wrong they were. If people could please do me a favor and yourselves a favor by just admitting that this was a disaster of a trade, I'll be more at peace and not make such posts as often. I can't stand the fact that there are people out there who actually like OEL and like this trade. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougieL Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 But hey...if we end up with a truly high-end difference maker in this year's draft, I might forgive this trade and think it was all part of a grand 4D chess plan. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coryberg Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 15 minutes ago, dougieL said: As long as people keep saying that this was a good trade, or OEL is fine and worth ~5m, I'll keep reminding them how wrong they were. If people could please do me a favor and yourselves a favor by just admitting that this was a disaster of a trade, I'll be more at peace and not make such posts as often. I can't stand the fact that there are people out there who actually like OEL and like this trade. I haven't seen anyone saying this was a good trade and nobody had commented in this thread in over a week before you decided to bump it to say the exact same thing for the 100th time. You don't like OEL and hate the trade, we get it. You don't need to keep saying the same thing over and over, nobody is arguing with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougieL Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 4 minutes ago, coryberg said: I haven't seen anyone saying this was a good trade and nobody had commented in this thread in over a week before you decided to bump it to say the exact same thing for the 100th time. You don't like OEL and hate the trade, we get it. You don't need to keep saying the same thing over and over, nobody is arguing with you. The people who were saying those things have gone quiet. But I take your point. It's just hard to not say anything while watching him play like he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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