[Trade] Canucks trade Jay Beagle, Loui Eriksson, Antoine Roussel, 2021 1st-round pick, 2022 2nd-round pick, 2023 7th-round pick to Coyotes for Oliver Ekman-Larsson, Conor Garland

[Coconuts]

44 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

33-22-7. If you can’t get into the playoffs when your #1 goalie is standing on his head and winning games all by himself then it’s time to fix the defensive structure of the team and get some new defencemen. 
 

Our goalies have been crap this year, but if we have to rely on Demko to be a Vezina trophy candidate just to be a bubble playoff team then that’s not really a recipe for long term success. 

That's a piece a lot of folks didn't seem to get last year, and a piece that's become very apparent this year 

 

If you need your goaltender to stand on their head night in and night out just to have a shot at winning that speaks volumes about the quality of the rest of your roster, one of the benefits of Demko having the season he's had is that the warts aren't covered anymore and people can see a better representation of what the roster looks like without top notch goaltending 

[Elias Pettersson]

3 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

I’m not even asking for vezina caliber goaltending. Im merely asking for the league avg and the results would be waaaay different. And with slightly above avg goaltending it gets even better. 
 

We have no issue scoring, but we cant outscore poor goaltending on a nightly basis. But if we had a league avg goaltending in every aspect, we’d be a lot higher in the standings. Look at LA.

 

with league min goaltending the standings are a different picture. 

We had a .912 SV% last year and we missed the playoffs scoring 3 goals per game on average.  We were 7th in the league last year in SV%.  Colorado also had a .912 SV% last year and they won the cup.  So having a .912 SV% should not only get you into the playoffs but it should allow you to also be a cup contender.  Instead, we missed the playoffs.

 

This year we are at .870 SV% and scoring 3.31 goals per game.  So, we are up less than half a goal per game this year.  Even if we had last year's goaltending at .912 I still don't think we are even a playoff team right now, or at the very best case scenario we are on the bubble...

[mll]

.

Edited February 16, 2023 by mll

[AnthonyG]

20 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

We had a .912 SV% last year and we missed the playoffs scoring 3 goals per game on average.  We were 7th in the league last year in SV%.  Colorado also had a .912 SV% last year and they won the cup.  So having a .912 SV% should not only get you into the playoffs but it should allow you to also be a cup contender.  Instead, we missed the playoffs.

 

This year we are at .870 SV% and scoring 3.31 goals per game.  So, we are up less than half a goal per game this year.  Even if we had last year's goaltending at .912 I still don't think we are even a playoff team right now, or at the very best case scenario we are on the bubble...

Demko had a .908sv% overall between the start of the season and Dec 5th.

 

After that his sv% increased to .922sv% overall

 

his ES sv% didnt change much throughout the season .928 to .931

 

First 25 games he had a .817sv% on the PK. 
The following 57 games he had a .866sv%

 

Simply better goaltending on the PK helped change our season around last season. 
 

Right now our goaltending is struggling everywhere.

 

Just think of how miserable this season has gone, the amount of leads we have blown and how poor our PK is, havent been healthy at all this season, lost our starter for coming up on 3 months, yet we have 4 less wins than Calgary, and 8 less wins than Colorado, 9 less then Edmonton who has almost completely avoided any major set backs this season. They need everything to go perfect all season to be a playoff team. They rely solely on 2 players and if one of them go down, their season is over. We’ve had countless injuries and a horrendous PK and our PP was absolutely garbage to start too. But now its found its rhythm.

This has felt like the longest season ever and the hardest one to watch, yet we really are only a handful wins behind the last couple playoff team. They just have more loser points, which with league avg goaltending and or PK we would also be better losers.
 

I’d be willing to bet that if we had league avg PK and league avg goaltending, we would without a doubt, have 8 more wins this season easily.

 

But hey maybe this season will be a blessing in disguise in the end. 

[Boudrias]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

33-22-7. If you can’t get into the playoffs when your #1 goalie is standing on his head and winning games all by himself then it’s time to fix the defensive structure of the team and get some new defencemen. 
 

Our goalies have been crap this year, but if we have to rely on Demko to be a Vezina trophy candidate just to be a bubble playoff team then that’s not really a recipe for long term success. 

That line of thought was roundly shouted down when Benning went out and got OEL and Garland. How things have changed.  

[Elias Pettersson]

5 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

Demko had a .908sv% overall between the start of the season and Dec 5th.

 

After that his sv% increased to .922sv% overall

 

his ES sv% didnt change much throughout the season .928 to .931

 

First 25 games he had a .817sv% on the PK. 
The following 57 games he had a .866sv%

 

Simply better goaltending on the PK helped change our season around last season. 
 

Right now our goaltending is struggling everywhere.

 

Just think of how miserable this season has gone, the amount of leads we have blown and how poor our PK is, havent been healthy at all this season, lost our starter for coming up on 3 months, yet we have 4 less wins than Calgary, and 8 less wins than Colorado, 9 less then Edmonton who has almost completely avoided any major set backs this season. They need everything to go perfect all season to be a playoff team. They rely solely on 2 players and if one of them go down, their season is over. We’ve had countless injuries and a horrendous PK and our PP was absolutely garbage to start too. But now its found its rhythm.

This has felt like the longest season ever and the hardest one to watch, yet we really are only a handful wins behind the last couple playoff team. They just have more loser points, which with league avg goaltending and or PK we would also be better losers.
 

I’d be willing to bet that if we had league avg PK and league avg goaltending, we would without a doubt, have 8 more wins this season easily.

 

But hey maybe this season will be a blessing in disguise in the end. 

I think you are right.  We are definitely in the playoff race if we have average league goaltending and PK.  I think the goal though is to become a cup contender.  I don't think we can be a cup contender if OEL and Myers are on our 2nd pairing and Schenn is playing with Hughes.  

[AnthonyG]

38 minutes ago, mll said:

LA has the worst goaltending in the league though (as per 26 Jan).  They have elite defence which allows their goalies to operate in one of the easiest environments.  Their goalies are performing considerably below their expected save percentages but because LA is so strong defensively it somewhat balances out.  

 

The Canucks are terrible defensively.  Put an LA goalie in Vancouver and their numbers are going to crater.  Put Canucks goalies in LA and they could well look average.  

 

I’d like to know where they get their numbers from. Because Hockey-reference does not show these kinds of numbers. Spencer Martin on his own has -28.9gsaa on his own. LAK as a whole has -40, you cant tell me that between Demko and Delia, they put us in a much higher spot. Delia and Demko, according to H-R combine for -20gsaa to go with Martins -28gsaa. Making it nearly -50

 

LAK has a better sv% overall .887 vs .870

better PK 75% vs 65.63%
lower GAA 3.35 vs 4.03

 

our expected goals against at 5v5 are 122… our actual goals against is 146

 

LAKs xga is 107, their actual is 114 at 5v5

 

Yes they do limit their chances against, but no, their goaltending is not nearly as bad as ours has been all season. Our goaltending has been attrocious and our PK has been historically bad.

 

 

We had virtually the same D as last year, our PK struggled, but that was also on our goalies. We went through 3 PK coaches last year until we figured it out, our system got better, our goalies pulled their weight and we began to go on a tear. 

[dougieL]

12 hours ago, coryberg said:

Hopefully it's not temporary. 

That I'm certainly on board with 

[EP Phone Home]

On 2/16/2023 at 12:31 PM, Elias Pettersson said:

I think you are right.  We are definitely in the playoff race if we have average league goaltending and PK.  I think the goal though is to become a cup contender.  I don't think we can be a cup contender if OEL and Myers are on our 2nd pairing and Schenn is playing with Hughes.  

That’s just it, sure we had above average goal tending last year and poor PK last year but this season we have poor goal tending and PK. But the constant has been horrible, personal and structural Defense. JR said in his closing press conference last year how Demko’s play masked a lot of our problems. But there in itself is a problem because like you said it’s not sustainable for long term success. 
 

The constant for the last three years since the bubble has been the neglectful job the two managements have done to improve the defense. Losing Tanev (top pair RSD), Edler (2nd pair LHD) Stetcher (2nd pair RSD) Schmidt’s (borderline 1st or 2nd pair RSD) Fantenberg (Bottom LHD) and we didn’t upgrade on them all especially on the right side. Sure OEL was Edler’s replacement and Bear/Schenn are technically Tanev and Schmidt’s replacements but those aren’t moving the needle for this team. So while we have known this has been a problem for the last two and a half seasons. It’s still an ongoing problem. Until we fix our blueline we will have a poor PK and Goaltending because Defense is what is going to help fix those issues. 
 

People forget how solid Tanev and Elder were on the PK for years. It’s no coincidence that our PK went downhill when they left the club. To be putting it all on the goaltending/PK (not you but other people) is not where we need to put the blame and fix the issue. We all saw how Demko got injured this season in that Florida Panthers game. Our D broke/betrayed him. 
 

This team needs upgrades on the backend in our system and on the big club. Until that is addressed we will have a crappy PK and shaky goaltending that doesn’t have much confidence to stop pucks because they don’t trust the D in front of them.
 

Listen to Kevin Woodley on Wednesday’s at 4:30PM on SN650. He has a great analysis on how the goalies need to have trust in the defense. Without the trust, goalies are going to cheat on their positioning. It’s a trickling effect that’s easy to put the blame on the goalie, and that’s just unfair when we have been spoiled since Luongo (Miller, Marky, Demko) with solid goaltending. 
 

Sorry for the long post but I find it crazy that people (again not you EP) want to put the blame on forwards, goalies, but not mention the glaring weakest link on Defense.

Edited February 18, 2023 by EP Phone Home

[AnthonyG]

55 minutes ago, EP Phone Home said:

People forget how solid Tanev and Elder were on the PK for years. It’s no coincidence that our PK went downhill when they left the club. To be putting it all on the goaltending/PK (not you but other people) is not where we need to put the blame and fix the issue. We all saw how Demko got injured this season in that Florida Panthers game. Our D broke/betrayed him. 
 

This team needs upgrades on the backend in our system and on the big club. Until that is addressed we will have a crappy PK and shaky goaltending that doesn’t have much confidence to stop pucks because they don’t trust the D in front of them.
 

Listen to Kevin Woodley on Wednesday’s at 4:30PM on SN650. He has a great analysis on how the goalies need to have trust in the defense. Without the trust, goalies are going to cheat on their positioning. It’s a trickling effect that’s easy to put the blame on the goalie, and that’s just unfair when we have been spoiled since Luongo (Miller, Marky, Demko) with solid goaltending. 
 

Sorry for the long post but I find it crazy that people (again not you EP) want to put the blame on forwards, goalies, but not mention the glaring weakest link on Defense.

2019-20 Vancouvers PK - 80.5% 16th overall

After losing a wave of Dmen in Tanev, Edler and Stetcher….2020-21 Vancouvers PK 79.8% 17th overall

 

After losing a wave of forwards such as Beagle, Sutter, Roussel, Eriksson… 2021-22 Vancouvers PK was 65% up until the coaching changes and our goalies starting to play better. Once that took effect, our PK actually increased to over 80% to finish the season, but overall our PK finished with 75%
 

2022-23 - PK is 65.6% dead last. 
 

Our biggest impact was losing forwards, we had little to no adjustments to make the following season after Tanev, Edler and Stecher left. The season after Beagle, Roussel, Sutter and Eriksson were gone, we saw a DRASTIC drop in PK and dzone coverage. 

Most offence on a PP runs through the point and a one-timer option, which is on the forwards to deal with. The D just tie guys up down low and help the goalie see the puck, try to take away passing lanes down low and just make it hard to get pucks in close to the goalie. The forwards are responsible for taking care of incoming shots and high slot/one-timer areas. To eliminate the actual threat. 
 

Forwards have a MUCH bigger impact in the dzone than you and many others truly understand. Point shots getting through traffic is  the hardest shot for a goalie to stop with the sea of bodies to try and track the puck. You go and look at the last few games there have been plenty of examples of shots from the point getting through and beating our goalies.

 

Our players also need to trust our goalies, but we cant. Every time we let a bad goal in, it cripples team moral and confidence, because we are constantly letting in 1 bad goal a game that is the goalies fault directly. Hard to win games when you arent getting the easy saves.

 

its a team game and it takes EVERYONE in the dzone to get the job done. So quit looking at only the D, the forwards are extremely guilty and a shooter tutor has a better sv% than our goalies.

[lmm]

.I have been thinking that I do not recall OEL as a stand out performer

 

So I went looking to see what I had missed

 

Here it is, OEL's best season

9 years before the big trade

no wonder he is not what we'd hoped

he never was

fyi that is 2012-13

James Norris Memorial Trophy

 

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Place	Player	Age	Tm	Pos	Votes	Vote%	1st	2nd	3rd	4th	5th	G	A	PTS	+/-	OPS	DPS	GPS	PS
1	P.K. Subban	23	MTL	D	1266	71.12	66	56	35	12	3	11	27	38	12	4.3	2.9	0.0	7.1
2	Ryan Suter	28	MIN	D	1230	69.10	65	54	34	8	8	4	28	32	2	2.4	3.6	0.0	6.0
3	Kris Letang	25	PIT	D	914	51.35	31	37	42	39	18	5	33	38	16	3.7	2.6	0.0	6.3
4	Francois Beauchemin	32	ANA	D	290	16.29	1	6	20	33	39	6	18	24	19	2.0	3.8	0.0	5.8
5	Zdeno Chara	35	BOS	D	289	16.24	10	9	16	8	22	7	12	19	14	1.5	3.7	0.0	5.2
6	Duncan Keith	29	CHI	D	281	15.79	1	8	16	36	27	3	24	27	16	2.1	3.4	0.0	5.5
7	Oliver Ekman-Larsson	21	PHX	D	79	4.44	3	1	2	8	8	3	21	24	5	1.6	2.8	0.0	4.3
8	Shea Weber	27	NSH	D	49	2.75	0	1	4	5	7	9	19	28	-2	2.6	2.7	0.0	5.3
9	Drew Doughty	23	LAK	D	43	2.42	0	1	2	7	5	6	16	22	4	1.6	3.3	0.0	4.9
10	Niklas Kronwall	32	DET	D	33	1.85	0	2	1	3	5	5	24	29	-5	2.4	2.4	0.0	4.8
11	Dion Phaneuf	27	TOR	D	28	1.57	0	1	1	4	4	9	19	28	-4	2.7	1.9	0.0	4.6
12	Keith Yandle	26	PHX	D	27	1.52	0	0	0	6	9	10	20	30	4	3.2	2.4	0.0	5.6
13	Andrei Markov	34	MTL	D	23	1.29	1	0	1	1	5	10	20	30	-9	3.0	1.4	0.0	4.5
14	Alex Pietrangelo	23	STL	D	23	1.29	0	2	0	2	3	5	19	24	0	1.8	3.1	0.0	4.9
15	Dustin Byfuglien	27	WPG	D	13	0.73	0	0	1	2	2	8	20	28	-1	2.8	1.9	0.0	4.7
16	Dan Hamhuis	30	VAN	D	9	0.51	0	0	1	1	1	4	20	24	9	1.9	3.2	0.0	5.0
17	Mike Green	27	WSH	D	6	0.34	0	0	0	1	3	12	14	26	-3	3.2	1.3	0.0	4.5
18	Erik Karlsson	22	OTT	D	5	0.28	0	0	1	0	0	6	8	14	8	1.7	1.9	0.0	3.6
18	Brooks Orpik	32	PIT	D	5	0.28	0	0	1	0	0	0	8	8	17	-0.3	2.9	0.0	2.5
20	Kimmo Timonen	37	PHI	D	5	0.28	0	0	0	1	2	5	24	29	3	2.7	2.6	0.0	5.2
21	Dennis Seidenberg	31	BOS	D	4	0.22	0	0	0	1	1	4	13	17	18	1.0	3.8	0.0	4.9
22	Dan Girardi	28	NYR	D	2	0.11	0	0	0	0	2	2	12	14	-1	0.4	2.3	0.0	2.7
23	Paul Martin	31	PIT	D	1	0.06	0	0	0	0	1	6	17	23	14	2.2	2.4	0.0	4.6
23	Sheldon Souray	36	ANA	D	1	0.06	0	0	0	0	1	7	10	17	19	1.6	3.4	0.0	4.9
23	Lubomir Visnovsky	36	NYI	D	1	0.06	0	0	0	0	1	3	11	14	12	0.9	2.6	0.0	3.6

[lmm]

2 hours ago, AnthonyG said:

2019-20 Vancouvers PK - 80.5% 16th overall

After losing a wave of Dmen in Tanev, Edler and Stetcher….2020-21 Vancouvers PK 79.8% 17th overall

 

After losing a wave of forwards such as Beagle, Sutter, Roussel, Eriksson… 2021-22 Vancouvers PK was 65% up until the coaching changes and our goalies starting to play better. Once that took effect, our PK actually increased to over 80% to finish the season, but overall our PK finished with 75%
 

2022-23 - PK is 65.6% dead last. 
 

Our biggest impact was losing forwards, we had little to no adjustments to make the following season after Tanev, Edler and Stecher left. The season after Beagle, Roussel, Sutter and Eriksson were gone, we saw a DRASTIC drop in PK and dzone coverage. 

Most offence on a PP runs through the point and a one-timer option, which is on the forwards to deal with. The D just tie guys up down low and help the goalie see the puck, try to take away passing lanes down low and just make it hard to get pucks in close to the goalie. The forwards are responsible for taking care of incoming shots and high slot/one-timer areas. To eliminate the actual threat. 
 

Forwards have a MUCH bigger impact in the dzone than you and many others truly understand. Point shots getting through traffic is  the hardest shot for a goalie to stop with the sea of bodies to try and track the puck. You go and look at the last few games there have been plenty of examples of shots from the point getting through and beating our goalies.

 

Our players also need to trust our goalies, but we cant. Every time we let a bad goal in, it cripples team moral and confidence, because we are constantly letting in 1 bad goal a game that is the goalies fault directly. Hard to win games when you arent getting the easy saves.

 

its a team game and it takes EVERYONE in the dzone to get the job done. So quit looking at only the D, the forwards are extremely guilty and a shooter tutor has a better sv% than our goalies.

when people say that the Canucks are a collection on pieces and not a team

I think you have shown what that means

Edler ands Tanev were a defensive pair

before them it was Bieksa and Hamhius

Luke Schenn is one half of a defensive pair

Hughes tries, but can be outmuscled

Bear, OEL, Kaos Giraffe and Stiller are mostly way out of position

 

as you mentioned Beagle, Loui, Rooster and Sutter were defensive forwards

rumour has it that Dicky was a defensive forward and that Lazar is now

I think Lazar is a "defensive forward" only because he cannot score points ( defensive by default)

 

Remember when there was talk about "Mentoring" a great JB catchphrase

weren't B,L,R + S meant to mentor the likes of Horvat on the finer points of defensive coverage?

I have to think that good coaching might have helped that plan along

that is why I have some hope that Foote (if he can actually coach) will have a positive effect

at least he is not Willie/Green/Baumer

I just hoe he is not another Doug Lidster,

that guy could play defense, but he just couldn't coach it

[AnthonyG]

2 hours ago, lmm said:

.I have been thinking that I do not recall OEL as a stand out performer

 

So I went looking to see what I had missed

 

Here it is, OEL's best season

9 years before the big trade

no wonder he is not what we'd hoped

he never was

fyi that is 2012-13

James Norris Memorial Trophy

 

• Top Defenseman
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Place	Player	Age	Tm	Pos	Votes	Vote%	1st	2nd	3rd	4th	5th	G	A	PTS	+/-	OPS	DPS	GPS	PS
1	P.K. Subban	23	MTL	D	1266	71.12	66	56	35	12	3	11	27	38	12	4.3	2.9	0.0	7.1
2	Ryan Suter	28	MIN	D	1230	69.10	65	54	34	8	8	4	28	32	2	2.4	3.6	0.0	6.0
3	Kris Letang	25	PIT	D	914	51.35	31	37	42	39	18	5	33	38	16	3.7	2.6	0.0	6.3
4	Francois Beauchemin	32	ANA	D	290	16.29	1	6	20	33	39	6	18	24	19	2.0	3.8	0.0	5.8
5	Zdeno Chara	35	BOS	D	289	16.24	10	9	16	8	22	7	12	19	14	1.5	3.7	0.0	5.2
6	Duncan Keith	29	CHI	D	281	15.79	1	8	16	36	27	3	24	27	16	2.1	3.4	0.0	5.5
7	Oliver Ekman-Larsson	21	PHX	D	79	4.44	3	1	2	8	8	3	21	24	5	1.6	2.8	0.0	4.3
8	Shea Weber	27	NSH	D	49	2.75	0	1	4	5	7	9	19	28	-2	2.6	2.7	0.0	5.3
9	Drew Doughty	23	LAK	D	43	2.42	0	1	2	7	5	6	16	22	4	1.6	3.3	0.0	4.9
10	Niklas Kronwall	32	DET	D	33	1.85	0	2	1	3	5	5	24	29	-5	2.4	2.4	0.0	4.8
11	Dion Phaneuf	27	TOR	D	28	1.57	0	1	1	4	4	9	19	28	-4	2.7	1.9	0.0	4.6
12	Keith Yandle	26	PHX	D	27	1.52	0	0	0	6	9	10	20	30	4	3.2	2.4	0.0	5.6
13	Andrei Markov	34	MTL	D	23	1.29	1	0	1	1	5	10	20	30	-9	3.0	1.4	0.0	4.5
14	Alex Pietrangelo	23	STL	D	23	1.29	0	2	0	2	3	5	19	24	0	1.8	3.1	0.0	4.9
15	Dustin Byfuglien	27	WPG	D	13	0.73	0	0	1	2	2	8	20	28	-1	2.8	1.9	0.0	4.7
16	Dan Hamhuis	30	VAN	D	9	0.51	0	0	1	1	1	4	20	24	9	1.9	3.2	0.0	5.0
17	Mike Green	27	WSH	D	6	0.34	0	0	0	1	3	12	14	26	-3	3.2	1.3	0.0	4.5
18	Erik Karlsson	22	OTT	D	5	0.28	0	0	1	0	0	6	8	14	8	1.7	1.9	0.0	3.6
18	Brooks Orpik	32	PIT	D	5	0.28	0	0	1	0	0	0	8	8	17	-0.3	2.9	0.0	2.5
20	Kimmo Timonen	37	PHI	D	5	0.28	0	0	0	1	2	5	24	29	3	2.7	2.6	0.0	5.2
21	Dennis Seidenberg	31	BOS	D	4	0.22	0	0	0	1	1	4	13	17	18	1.0	3.8	0.0	4.9
22	Dan Girardi	28	NYR	D	2	0.11	0	0	0	0	2	2	12	14	-1	0.4	2.3	0.0	2.7
23	Paul Martin	31	PIT	D	1	0.06	0	0	0	0	1	6	17	23	14	2.2	2.4	0.0	4.6
23	Sheldon Souray	36	ANA	D	1	0.06	0	0	0	0	1	7	10	17	19	1.6	3.4	0.0	4.9
23	Lubomir Visnovsky	36	NYI	D	1	0.06	0	0	0	0	1	3	11	14	12	0.9	2.6	0.0	3.6

The Norris is as much the teams impact as it is the players. Good Defensemen on good teams get more recognition as it is their play ontop of the overall teams play that makes it stand out even more. Great players on bad teams are not given nearly the recognition or accolades due to the teams overall play. OEL was getting plenty of Norris recognition on crappy ARZ teams, but never in a million years would he walk away with the hardware, because the team sucked big time. They are awards based on opinion, not clear concise facts such as the Art and Rocket. 

[lmm]

2 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

The Norris is as much the teams impact as it is the players. Good Defensemen on good teams get more recognition as it is their play ontop of the overall teams play that makes it stand out even more. Great players on bad teams are not given nearly the recognition or accolades due to the teams overall play. OEL was getting plenty of Norris recognition on crappy ARZ teams, but never in a million years would he walk away with the hardware, because the team sucked big time. They are awards based on opinion, not clear concise facts such as the Art and Rocket. 

not that I disagree with you

but that what I posted was his best year

 

I thought he was actually close to winning, given the hype

but he was not ever close

 

Gary probably bought a few votes to keep Arizona fans interested

[AnthonyG]

16 minutes ago, lmm said:

not that I disagree with you

but that what I posted was his best year

 

I thought he was actually close to winning, given the hype

but he was not ever close

 

Gary probably bought a few votes to keep Arizona fans interested

Yea and you look at the winner… PK Subban… 4th place MTL team vs OEL on a 19th place ARZ team. And honestly…. PK Subban winning the Norris is kind of proof that its a team influenced award. He was never a good “defensive” dman. In reality they should have a Lidstrom award and an Orr award. Best offensive dman and best defensive dman. 

 

OEL wasnt close, because of overall standings and the impact the team has on that award as well. 
 

OEL was on for 18 more goals against yes, but he had far more dzone duties than PK and didnt have Carey Price behind him. PK had twice as many giveaways and half as many takeaways in that 2012-13 season

[dougieL]

On 2/17/2023 at 2:46 AM, aGENT said:

Probably because you're (still) trolling (and necro-posting...). Was your point that UFA aged, first pair D make less than $8m-$12m? Because you'd still be wrong then.

 

Nope.

Okay so let's concede your point that "first pair D make less than $8m-$12". What is your purpose for stating this? Forget about the fact that OEL makes 8.25m - he takes up 7.26m on our cap, so let's go with that number. Are you trying to claim that he's earning his cap hit as a high-end second pair 

[ShawnAntoski]

Just keeping the thread alive - tank you JB..

Edited February 23, 2023 by ShawnAntoski

[Ted Lasso]

[dougieL]

4 hours ago, ShawnAntoski said:

Just keeping the thread alive - tank you JB..

Probably quieter here now that all the defenders of this trade and the defenders of OEL seem to have gone quiet 

[ShawnAntoski]

5 hours ago, dougieL said:

Probably quieter here now that all the defenders of this trade and the defenders of OEL seem to have gone quiet 

The OEL trade and the LE signing gave us a glimpse of what players, the Canucks doesn't need if they want a culture of winning.  Tanks JB, for the experienced of watching two highly paid slackers.

Edited February 23, 2023 by ShawnAntoski