[Discussion] Are the Canucks now a legitimate playoff team?

[shiznak]

Depends on Demko standing on his head every night. I still say we give up a ton of quality shots.
 

While we have better depth on the backend, then last year. The defense is still barely passable as a playoff team. 
 

OEL - Banking on him to have a resurgent season.

Myers/Hamonic/Poolman - are probably 4th/5th defensemen on a contenting team. 
Hughes - Needs to learn how to play defense

Schenn/Hunt - borderline 5th/6th defensemen 

Edited July 29, 2021 by shiznak

[BPA]

2 hours ago, sassbs said:

With edler now gone, and after all these no names signings, where do the canucks stand as far as cap hit is concerned?

Capfriendly has it around $14M.  But that includes some depth signing that I assume will go to Abbotsford.  It should really be about $17-$18M.  That's to get EP, QH, Dickinson, and OJ signed.  Also remember that we have $3.5M in Ferland LTIR money.

[highwayman3]

Forwards, provided Petterson is healthy and takes another step forward, are elite imo.  Goaltending is very good.  Unfortunately the defence is and will be our achilles heel - don't think we'll be able to outscore a team like Edmonton as McDavid will feast on Myers on the top pairing.  Unless Myers is somehow magically replaced by Murphy I just don't see us making it.  We'll be close, and it will be a good development year for the squad.  Hopefully the defence can be addressed next offseason as there's a lot of work that needs to be done.  

[Canucks_fo_life]

Las Vegas*

Vancouver*

Edmonton*

Los Angeles

Calgary

Seattle

San Jose

Anaheim

 

[CanadianRugby]

I think they'll make it but wouldn't be nothing would suprise me with this lineup.  Lots of change. 

[131313]

1 hour ago, Patel Bure said:

Big picture.  Myers for Subbann.  
 

The idea is that we would walk away from Subbann after ONE year and then go HARD after Colton Parayko or John Klingberg in the 2022 offseason.  By contrast, we would be married to Myers and his 6 million dollar contract for three more years if we kept Myers.

 

In my proposed deal, NJ would also give us a 1st (to recoup some of the first round picks we’ve been trading these past few years), as well as a guy that can take on tougher defensive match ups against top lines (Ryan Graves).

So you are using Hughes as a sweetener to get rid of Myers contract and get a 1st round pick? If that is all he is worth then just start rebuilding the team now because they are going nowhere.

[24K PureCool]

Those who voted no are seriously overestimating the pacific division. 

[Patel Bure]

16 minutes ago, 131313 said:

So you are using Hughes as a sweetener to get rid of Myers contract and get a 1st round pick? If that is all he is worth then just start rebuilding the team now because they are going nowhere.

No No No.

 

Don't get me wrong - the idea that I'd have in mind is that it would be a pure "hockey deal."    

 

To New Jersey:   

• Quinn Hughes
• Tyler Myers

To Vancouver:

• Ryan Graves
• PK Subbann
• 1st round pick

The idea being that 

 

1) We would recoup one of the 1st round picks that we had lost over the years

2) New Jersey would pay a price for attempting to unify the three Hughes brothers

3) We would bring in a guy that could take on tough defensive assignments and match ups (Ryan Graves)

4) And this is the most important point:  We would WALK AWAY from PK Subban after one year, and replace his salary with either Colton Parayko or John Klingberg.  We would go VERY VERY hard after one of these two players based on what management feels would be our biggest need at the time (another stay at home guy, or another PMD).  

 

So basically,

 

OEL-Hamonic

Graves-Subban (which becomes either Parayko or Klingberg a year later)

Rathbone-Poolman

 

At least in my opinion, a pairing of Graves-Parayko or Graves/Klingberg would likely make us a perennial 2nd round++ calibre team for a sizeable period of time as our defense would have a terrific balance of PMD's, shut down D's, PP guys, PK guys, etc.  

[Bertuzzipunch]

Just now, Patel Bure said:

No No No.

 

Don't get me wrong - the idea that I'd have in mind is that it would be a pure "hockey deal."    

 

To New Jersey:   

• Quinn Hughes
• Tyler Myers

To Vancouver:

• Ryan Graves
• PK Subbann
• 1st round pick

The idea being that 

 

1) We would recoup one of the 1st round picks that we had lost over the years

2) New Jersey would pay a price for attempting to unify the three Hughes brothers

3) We would bring in a guy that could take on tough defensive assignments and match ups (Ryan Graves)

4) And this is the most important point:  We would WALK AWAY from PK Subban after one year, and replace his salary with either Colton Parayko or John Klingberg.  We would go VERY VERY hard after one of these two players based on what management feels would be our biggest need at the time (another stay at home guy, or another PMD).  

 

So basically,

 

OEL-Hamonic

Graves-Subban (which becomes either Parayko or Klingberg a year later)

Rathbone-Poolman

 

At least in my opinion, a pairing of Graves-Parayko or Graves/Klingberg would likely make us a perennial 2nd round++ calibre team for a sizeable period of time as our defense would have a terrific balance of PMD's, shut down D's, PP guys, PK guys, etc.  

this is just so terrible 

[Patel Bure]

5 minutes ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

this is just so terrible 

2022-2023

 

OEL-Hamonic

Graves-Klingberg

Rathbone-Poolman

 

OR

 

OEL-Parayako

Graves-Hamonic

Rathbone-Poolman

 

Is terrible?  

 

Remember - bringing in Subban would just be for a year.  He'd be off the books after that.  With that 9 million in freed up cap, you go HARD HARD HARD after Parayako or Klingberg.  Contrast this to having Myers on the books for three more years.   

 

Edited July 29, 2021 by Patel Bure

[Bertuzzipunch]

2 minutes ago, Patel Bure said:

2022-2023

 

OEL-Hamonic

Graves-Klingberg

Rathbone-Poolman

 

OR

 

OEL-Parayako

Graves-Hamonic

Rathbone-Poolman

 

Is terrible?  

Anything that involves trading quinn is terrible imo

[Podz19]

2 hours ago, Patel Bure said:

Big picture.  Myers for Subbann.  
 

The idea is that we would walk away from Subbann after ONE year and then go HARD after Colton Parayko or John Klingberg in the 2022 offseason.  By contrast, we would be married to Myers and his 6 million dollar contract for three more years if we kept Myers.

 

In my proposed deal, NJ would also give us a 1st (to recoup some of the first round picks we’ve been trading these past few years), as well as a guy that can take on tougher defensive match ups against top lines (Ryan Graves).

So..

 

Myers who's better than Subban for what? We don't need cap. 

 

Parayko and Klingberg may not even make it to UFA, they could easily re-sign with their teams for 8 years vs 7 everywhere else, and obviously every team will be trying to get them.

 

So you're trading the best offensive defenseman we've had in the history of the franchise for a first rounder that 99.9% likely won't even be close to as good, for the hopes of signing a UFA?

This is completely absurd. Why not wait and see if you can make a deal to sign those players as UFA's and if so then trade Myers? 

 

You then have

OEL Parayko and still have Hughes

 

It seems you just want to throw away a literal superstar smh

[Patel Bure]

1 minute ago, Bertuzzipunch said:

Anything that involves trading quinn is terrible imo

Would definitely be a tough pill to swallow, but

 

1) recouping a 1st

2) Getting Myers off the books free and clear

3) Getting a legit top pairing match-ups guy in Graves

 

4) Walking from PK and then going HARD after one of Parayako or Klingberg in the 2022 off-season with all that freed up money

 

would EASILY put us on a MUCH higher trajectory afterwards.   Wouldn't even be close.  

 

Perhaps it's just me, but I'm not entirely sold on our defense right now due to a lack of a top pairing shut down guy (at least how it appears to me).  Myers being on the books will also prevent us from making the upgrades that we'd truly need to get to that next level.  While it's possible that I'm wrong, I think counting on guys like Myers and Hamonic to defensively bail out OEL and Hughes will be a tall ask.  

[Patel Bure]

7 minutes ago, Podz19 said:

So..

 

Myers who's better than Subban for what? We don't need cap. 

 

Parayko and Klingberg may not even make it to UFA, they could easily re-sign with their teams for 8 years vs 7 everywhere else, and obviously every team will be trying to get them.

 

So you're trading the best offensive defenseman we've had in the history of the franchise for a first rounder that 99.9% likely won't even be close to as good, for the hopes of signing a UFA?

This is completely absurd. Why not wait and see if you can make a deal to sign those players as UFA's and if so then trade Myers? 

 

You then have

OEL Parayko and still have Hughes

 

It seems you just want to throw away a literal superstar smh

Repeat after me.

 

Subban for ONE year.

Subban for ONE year.

Subban for ONE year.  

 

Now take a deep breath.  :-)

 

Unlike Myers, Subban would be completely off the books on July 1st 2022............which would allow us to go HARD HARD HARD after who we would really need at that time:  Colton Parayako OR John Klingberg.  This of course would depend on a number of factors.  Does OEL still got it?  Has Rathbone taken the next step?  Is Graves that top matchups shut down guy?  The bottom line is that we'd have OPTIONS.  Depending on what we'd need at that time, we could go after a "defensive defenseman" in Parayko, or an offensive defensemen in Klingberg.  

 

All the while, having recouped one of our 1st round picks while giving us even more overall cap flexibility.  Even outside of Hughes, OEL and Rathbone would still give us that puck movement from the back-end.  However, with the presence of Graves, we'd also have a guy that could take on the tough physical match-ups in a top pairing capacity (something which we lack right now since guys like Hamonic and Poolman aren't guys that are capable of shutting down top players from opposing teams). 

 

p.s.__________Just read the rest of your post.  Yes, I didn't take into account that both Parayako and Klingberg might decide to re-sign before they hit the UFA market, but given where both St. Louis and Dallas are as a team with their cores, would it really surprise you if they wanted to test free agency?   

Edited July 29, 2021 by Patel Bure

[Podz19]

3 minutes ago, Patel Bure said:

Repeat after me.

 

Subban for ONE year.

Subban for ONE year.

Subban for ONE year.  

 

Now take a deep breath.  :-)

 

Unlike Myers, Subban would be completely off the books on July 1st 2022............which would allow us to go HARD HARD HARD after who we would really need at that time:  Colton Parayako OR John Klingberg.  This of course would depend on a number of factors.  Does OEL still got it?  Has Rathbone taken the next step?  Is Graves that top matchups shut down guy?  The bottom line is that we'd have OPTIONS.  Depending on what we'd need at that time, we could go after a "defensive defenseman" in Parayko, or an offensive defensemen in Klingberg.  

 

All the while, having recouped one of our 1st round picks while giving us even more overall cap flexibility.  

Yes lets trade Hughes in case we get lucky and can sign parayko!!!! that's brilliant!!!! who cares if we can't because he resigns with St Louis or wants to go elswhere!!!! we will have a first rounder that wont even be close to as good! Literally just give away the best offensive DMAN in our history to roll the dice! WEEEE!!!

 

DRRRRRR   

Edited July 29, 2021 by Podz19

[KyGuy123]

Our Defence scares me. I’m disappointed that we didn’t poach a quality Dman before the expansion draft. Had lots of teams scrambling to get assets for something they were afraid of losing. I hope we get a big shutdown guy that plays the body and makes people look over their shoulder. Hate that Myers is scheduled to get a lot of minutes and is our top option for RHD. Zadorov or Hanakapaa would have been great. Graves/Mayfield/Weager/Toews type. 

Edited July 29, 2021 by KyGuy123

[Patel Bure]

2 minutes ago, KyGuy123 said:

Our Defence scares me. I’m disappointed that we didn’t poach a quality Dman before the expansion draft. Had lots of teams scrambling to get assets for something they were afraid of losing. I hope we get a big shutdown guy that plays the body and makes people look over their shoulder. Hate that Myers is scheduled to get a lot of minutes and is our top option for RHD. 

@Podz19

[spur1]

10 minutes ago, Patel Bure said:

Would definitely be a tough pill to swallow, but

 

1) recouping a 1st

2) Getting Myers off the books free and clear

3) Getting a legit top pairing match-ups guy in Graves

 

4) Walking from PK and then going HARD after one of Parayako or Klingberg in the 2022 off-season with all that freed up money

 

would EASILY put us on a MUCH higher trajectory afterwards.   Wouldn't even be close.  

 

Perhaps it's just me, but I'm not entirely sold on our defense right now due to a lack of a top pairing shut down guy (at least how it appears to me).  Myers being on the books will also prevent us from making the upgrades that we'd truly need to get to that next level.  While it's possible that I'm wrong, I think counting on guys like Myers and Hamonic to defensively bail out OEL and Hughes will be a tall ask.  

This should be in the pipe dreams thread. 

[Podz19]

6 minutes ago, Patel Bure said:

@Podz19

you are totally ignoring the lack of logic in your post. carry on 

 

smh

[Patel Bure]

2 minutes ago, spur1 said:

This should be in the pipe dreams thread. 

You might be right, but the Devils do want Quinn quite badly from what I understand, and recouping both a 1st and getting rid of Myers would be a huge advantage.  

 

You're right though - none of this will happen and so it is a pipe dream.  Still - I am of the opinion that 

 

1) Our defense is not where it needs to be in terms of becoming a true contender

2) We need a top pairing calibre shut down defenseman that can take on the toughest assignments

3) Tyler Myers isn't a bad defenseman, but he isn't worth 6 million dollars, and that being freed of his salary after this coming season and putting that money to better use would go a LONG ways.