4petesake Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 33 minutes ago, mll said: By increasing the cap they are also increasing the compensation. At 4M it would only be a 2nd round pick vs a 1st + a 3rd. Montreal can already start to negotiate an extension (can't be filed before January) but they have nearly a year to convince him to sign a contract rather than his qualifying offer. Players are allowed to talk future contracts. Minnesota just signed Goligoski to a 5M deal with the understanding that if things go well they'll sign him to an extension at a much lower cap hit. They are paying him up front because in a season they will have significantly less cap space. Sorry, I’m not understanding what you are getting at in the first sentence. I’m talking about Carolina re-signing him for significantly less than his arb rights next year. Yes a 4M OS lowers the compensation but easier to match, that’s why the 6M offer obviously. I also realize that players under contract to a team are allowed to talk future contracts. The question is can a team have handshake side deal on a future contract that is not included in the offer sheet made to an RFA? I’ll take one last stab at this because I don’t really care and I’m sure nobody else does either. Let’s suppose Carolina’s offer sheet of 6M for one year has an unwritten agreed upon side deal of 3 more years at 4M per. That equals 18M over 4 years or 4.5M per year, a contract easier for Montreal to find a way to fit in under their cap. So essentially if the unwritten part of the offer sheet was included it would be much more appetizing for Montreal to match. So my only point is that unwritten side deals might be construed as sidestepping the spirit of the offer sheet rules. One other question. As I understand it KK has signed a league approved contract and Montreal had 7 days from the signing to match the exact terms. Doesn’t that imply that Montreal’s only option is to match and has no opportunity to negotiate or talk about a different contract with him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 8 minutes ago, qwijibo said: Dickinson isn’t a 2C neither is Jesperi 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwijibo Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, 4petesake said: Sorry, I’m not understanding what you are getting at in the first sentence. I’m talking about Carolina re-signing him for significantly less than his arb rights next year. Yes a 4M OS lowers the compensation but easier to match, that’s why the 6M offer obviously. I also realize that players under contract to a team are allowed to talk future contracts. The question is can a team have handshake side deal on a future contract that is not included in the offer sheet made to an RFA? I’ll take one last stab at this because I don’t really care and I’m sure nobody else does either. Let’s suppose Carolina’s offer sheet of 6M for one year has an unwritten agreed upon side deal of 3 more years at 4M per. That equals 18M over 4 years or 4.5M per year, a contract easier for Montreal to find a way to fit in under their cap. So essentially if the unwritten part of the offer sheet was included it would be much more appetizing for Montreal to match. So my only point is that unwritten side deals might be construed as sidestepping the spirit of the offer sheet rules. One other question. As I understand it KK has signed a league approved contract and Montreal had 7 days from the signing to match the exact terms. Doesn’t that imply that Montreal’s only option is to match and has no opportunity to negotiate or talk about a different contract with him? They have to match the offer sheet. Yes. The negotiations we’ve been talking about is for a future contract (considering the offer sheet is only a 1 year deal) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwijibo Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 Just now, CanucksJay said: neither is Jesperi He only just turned 21 and has shown flashes of the player that easily could be. He’s also pretty much only seen 3rd line duty so far. To categorically say he’s not a 2C is wrong. He may not be, but certainly may be 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, qwijibo said: He only just turned 21 and has shown flashes of the player that easily could be. He’s also pretty much only seen 3rd line duty so far. To categorically say he’s not a 2C is wrong. He may not be, but certainly may be My post literally said "Strictly this upcoming season" I would easily matchup Dickinson on JK all day everyday this year and be confident that JD would come out on top in a head to head matchup 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwijibo Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, CanucksJay said: My post literally said "Strictly this upcoming season" I would easily matchup Dickinson on JK all day everyday this year and be confident that JD would come out on top in a head to head matchup Id take Kotkaniemi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 1 minute ago, qwijibo said: Id take Kotkaniemi This year or career? I think JD would neuter JK in a head to head matchup this year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwijibo Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 7 minutes ago, CanucksJay said: This year or career? I think JD would neuter JK in a head to head matchup this year. This year. If Kotkaniemi is slotted into the 2C spot in Montreal and playing with actual top 6 players I think his numbers are due to jump up. If he’s in Carolina I doubt he sees 2C minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4petesake Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 17 minutes ago, qwijibo said: They have to match the offer sheet. Yes. The negotiations we’ve been talking about is for a future contract (considering the offer sheet is only a 1 year deal) So you are talking about Montreal matching now and negotiating in January? Sorry I saw your post on the last page responding to @canucksjay where you said he was still their player and they could negotiate with him. My point (or question) was that as he had already signed an offer sheet Montreal’s rights might be limited to match/don’t match so that may not be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 14 minutes ago, qwijibo said: This year. If Kotkaniemi is slotted into the 2C spot in Montreal and playing with actual top 6 players I think his numbers are due to jump up. If he’s in Carolina I doubt he sees 2C minutes. I guess you are talking situationally... Situationally, if we trade Dickinson to Edmonton and he plays top line and pp1 with McDavid, I see him out scoring JK. But to be real, if JD was also to play top 6 with Boeser and Garland heads up vs JK playing with Armia and whoeveer else, who would win that matchup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwijibo Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 8 minutes ago, CanucksJay said: I guess you are talking situationally... Situationally, if we trade Dickinson to Edmonton and he plays top line and pp1 with McDavid, I see him out scoring JK. But to be real, if JD was also to play top 6 with Boeser and Garland heads up vs JK playing with Armia and whoeveer else, who would win that matchup? I’m still going Kotkaniemi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goal:thecup Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 1 hour ago, 4petesake said: Sorry, I’m not understanding what you are getting at in the first sentence. I’m talking about Carolina re-signing him for significantly less than his arb rights next year. Yes a 4M OS lowers the compensation but easier to match, that’s why the 6M offer obviously. I also realize that players under contract to a team are allowed to talk future contracts. The question is can a team have handshake side deal on a future contract that is not included in the offer sheet made to an RFA? I’ll take one last stab at this because I don’t really care and I’m sure nobody else does either. Let’s suppose Carolina’s offer sheet of 6M for one year has an unwritten agreed upon side deal of 3 more years at 4M per. That equals 18M over 4 years or 4.5M per year, a contract easier for Montreal to find a way to fit in under their cap. So essentially if the unwritten part of the offer sheet was included it would be much more appetizing for Montreal to match. So my only point is that unwritten side deals might be construed as sidestepping the spirit of the offer sheet rules. One other question. As I understand it KK has signed a league approved contract and Montreal had 7 days from the signing to match the exact terms. Doesn’t that imply that Montreal’s only option is to match and has no opportunity to negotiate or talk about a different contract with him? You have raised a very interesting topic imo, but I am tangenting (a word?) off on a couple different directions than the Luongo Was A Canuck League Punishment Deal. Like, if Kotkaniemi Leg Wrestler has agreed to something beyond the league's Offer Sheet, was it a written contract, an oral contract, or, as previously referred to as a nudge, nudge, wink, wink, know what I mean Monty Python kind of thing? Would both sides' legal teams be ok without a document? Might not even an oral agreement have to be logged with the league? Another one is somewhat related (of course) but if there is a side deal, what if JK decides not to sign for the extra years at their (implied) low value? Anyway, great contributions from you thanks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammertime Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 1 hour ago, qwijibo said: Dickinson isn’t a 2C neither is JK 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwijibo Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 Just now, hammertime said: neither is JK Time will tell. He has the skill set to be one. Kid just turned 21. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 1 minute ago, qwijibo said: Time will tell. He has the skill set to be one. Kid just turned 21. Seems like the Canes believe JK can grow into a 2C. I don’t know if the Habs think that though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirkSave Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 I just like the fact that Bergevin's train wreck of an off season keeps on coming. What's next? Romanov choosing to leave for the KHL lol 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 Just now, KirkSave said: I just like the fact that Bergevin's train wreck of an off season keeps on coming. What's next? Romanov choosing to leave for the KHL lol Amazing how all that good will he built up can disappear in one offseason. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwijibo Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 Just now, Alflives said: Seems like the Canes believe JK can grow into a 2C. I don’t know if the Habs think that though? Why? Because he was a healthy scratch for a few games? One again he was 20 years old this season and still developing. You make roster decisions game to game with the goal of winning that game. a player’s long term potential doesn’t factor in when the Stanley cup is on the line 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bissurnette Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, qwijibo said: Why? Because he was a healthy scratch for a few games? One again he was 20 years old this season and still developing. You make roster decisions game to game with the goal of winning that game. a player’s long term potential doesn’t factor in when the Stanley cup is on the line Friedman already also said on his podcast that he doesn't believe KK is unhappy in any way, it was purely a money thing for KK. Can't blame him, but I don't buy into the narrative that KK was unhappy in MTL for a second. I think fans want to add layers to this whole fiasco, but it's a reach & entirely unfounded imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted August 30, 2021 Share Posted August 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, qwijibo said: Why? Because he was a healthy scratch for a few games? One again he was 20 years old this season and still developing. You make roster decisions game to game with the goal of winning that game. a player’s long term potential doesn’t factor in when the Stanley cup is on the line I guess we will find out how the Habs feel about whether JK has 2C potential in the next few days. Renault Lavoie (I think that’s his name) was on 650 this morning, and he said he didn’t think the Habs saw much upside in JK’s offence. I just don’t see how the Habs can afford not to match. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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The Canadiens will not match the Hurricanes' offer sheet to Jesperi Kotkaniemi.
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