With the premature departure of Juolevi - do you still think JB is a drafting genius?

[Kootenay Gold]

7 hours ago, Rabid Rooster said:

Losing OJ is a heartbreaking decision, and untimely. Just as he was showing poise, confidence and injury free we trade him for finnished players. I’m not sure who pushed for this but I’m thinking Green. Virt may have been a bust no matter where he played, but Green hated him as well. Sad really.

Your Moniker suits you.

 

[Locke Lamora]

Trying to lay OJ’s failings upon Travis Green or even Benning is beyond ridiculous. The kid flat out could not skate at an NHL level due to a litany of injuries. 

 

In particular, the rush to blame Green about everything is the highest form of lazy hockey analysis. The folks that do this show just how little they know about the game.

[tas]

4 minutes ago, Locke Lamora said:

Trying to lay OJ’s failings upon Travis Green or even Benning is beyond ridiculous. The kid flat out could not skate at an NHL level due to a litany of injuries. 

 

In particular, the rush to blame Green about everything is the highest form of lazy hockey analysis. The folks that do this show just how little they know about the game.

I don't like blaming the injuries, either. the kid just doesn't have the motor or the processing speed for the nhl. or the dedication to getting better. 

[Locke Lamora]

31 minutes ago, tas said:

I don't like blaming the injuries, either. the kid just doesn't have the motor or the processing speed for the nhl. or the dedication to getting better. 

Yeah, on top of the injuries there was the lack of inner fire and his dedication to conditioning was ALWAYS a question with him.

 

I’m am sure, much like he did with Virtanen, Green tried to get through to Olli in terms of what it takes to become a NHL professional…but at some point the individual player must assume ultimate responsibility as to what kind of player they become. Juolevi, in this respect just didn’t have it. Would it have been great if Benning could have anticipated this when he drafted the 17 year old OJ? Absolutely.

 

Dammit. Yesterday I said I was done talking OJ. 

[JM_]

13 hours ago, Patel Bure said:

Lmao.  Does he actually post on here?  Who is he?

Uncle is one of the characters that hired the infamous "fire Benning" plane. Sqamfan puts his posts up here like its gospel.

[GB5]

I think GMJB's true genius comes through in the later rounds because he finds some gems. In his own words a successful draft is one in which you come out of it with at least two NHL players and this team has averaged more than that in Benning's tenurefor the first time in Canuck history.

 

GMJB tends to like to swing for the fences a bit with his first rounders and he has hit some home runs with Petey, Hughes, Boeser and likely Podz and struck out with OJ and Virtanen.  

 

Currently we are talking about the departure of OJ and Gadjo (albeit I am po'ed still about Gadjo) but there is still a farm team full of excellent "drafted" almost NHL ready prospects such as Lockwood, Woo, Klimovich, Plasek and Dipietro and a bunch of other drafted guys showing well in other leagues.

 

Go back any point in time and we may only have one or two guys we were keeping an eye on to make the team rather than having the luxery to choose. 

[mikeyman109]

11 hours ago, AV. said:

Well, that's easy to answer: success on the ice.

One GM took over a team - one that had missed the playoffs 2/3 seasons prior - and propelled them to multiple division titles, PTs, a SCF run.  This doesn't happen by accident.  Good decisions in pro-scouting facilitate that.

The other GM took over a team that, yes, had it's best days behind them, but, all these years later, has yet to do anything of substance with that same team on the ice.  There are other reasons that fans have a rightful disapproval of Benning, but when your team doesn't win games, you aren't gonna win over a fanbase.

[]

With all that success Gillis had explain why he hasnt gotten another job???  Could it be others see him for the fact he inherited most of the team that he worked with? If he as such a great GM he would have been snapped up by someone by now. Sorry that narrative fails miserably.

[Canuckfanforlife82]

They really need a young gm with a creative and innovative mind to come in and lead this franchise. Tired of watching blunder after blunder. It makes the franchise look like a joke. Why do so many problems follow this gm around? You see franchises like Tampa Bay ran with an amazing amount of pedigree and professionalism. The owners have to start setting the bar higher. They have enabled a losing atmosphere.

Edited October 11, 2021 by Canuckfanforlife82

[AV.]

Just now, mikeyman109 said:

With all that success Gillis had explain why he hasnt gotten another job???  Could it be others see him for the fact he inherited most of the team that he worked with? If he as such a great GM he would have been snapped up by someone by now. Sorry that narrative fails miserably.

Because Gillis, from all accounts, is not a guy whose life revolves around being a GM.  It's quite clear from interviews, articles, and any other available references we have on him that his focus has been in higher managerial, consulting, and pedagogical roles since departing the Canucks.

[Toyotasfan]

I think Jolevi will develop into an NHL regular in Florida , if I’m wrong I owe JB an apology.

[mikeyman109]

1 minute ago, AV. said:

Because Gillis, from all accounts, is not a guy whose life revolves around being a GM.  It's quite clear from interviews, articles, and any other available references we have on him that his focus has been in higher managerial, consulting, and pedagogical roles since departing the Canucks.

Not buying that at all. Thats like the guy who gets passed over saying i didnt really want that job anyways.Despite the opportunities since he was fired at all levels of management theres one truth that keeps coming back . He didnt build the team that went to the finals. He tweaked what was already a pretty good line up and somehow gets all the credit.

Gillis was a thorn in the NHLs side as a GM and thus has not been given another opportunity. He is the Ted Nolan of GMs. Had some success but couldnt get along with the rest of the league. The only reason he is held in such high regard despite his horrible draft record, he almost won a cup here with a lineup that was built by Burke and Nonis.

[AV.]

1 minute ago, mikeyman109 said:

Not buying that at all. Thats like the guy who gets passed over saying i didnt really want that job anyways.Despite the opportunities since he was fired at all levels of management theres one truth that keeps coming back . He didnt build the team that went to the finals. He tweaked what was already a pretty good line up and somehow gets all the credit.

Gillis was a thorn in the NHLs side as a GM and thus has not been given another opportunity. He is the Ted Nolan of GMs. Had some success but couldnt get along with the rest of the league. The only reason he is held in such high regard despite his horrible draft record, he almost won a cup here with a lineup that was built by Burke and Nonis.

Ok well you clearly have your own answers to this question so I don't know why you would bother asking...

[mikeyman109]

1 minute ago, AV. said:

Ok well you clearly have your own answers to this question so I don't know why you would bother asking...

because it was a rhetorical question to answer your comment about success on the ice. If we look at what was on the ice when Gillis took over and we look at what was on the ice when Benning took over its not really the same thing. Yes Gillis had more success during his tenure but thats like starting the marathon at mile 25 and almost winning the race.

Benning has had to start the race from the starting line and thus he has had a few more lost seasons dealing with some of the pitfalls that Gillis never had to deal with.

[EddieVedder]

Not sure of his history in Fla but hoestly, Juulsen was highly touted, so he could turn into something good for us.   Fla looks pretty stacked on defense so it may have just been a numbers game there.  

I liked OJ but obviously Green has no idea how to develop 2 way dmen.

[AV.]

2 minutes ago, mikeyman109 said:

because it was a rhetorical question to answer your comment about success on the ice. If we look at what was on the ice when Gillis took over and we look at what was on the ice when Benning took over its not really the same thing. Yes Gillis had more success during his tenure but thats like starting the marathon at mile 25 and almost winning the race.

Benning has had to start the race from the starting line and thus he has had a few more lost seasons dealing with some of the pitfalls that Gillis never had to deal with.

Again, the original comment to the user is about why fans regard one GM as better than the other --> the reason being "success on the ice".  You can dissect this, break it down, attempt to contextualize it, find any excuse for it, etc but the history books show that one GM won a bunch during his tenure and the other has yet to even put together what we could call a sustainable playoff team.  Yes, not an equitable way to look at things but fans don't care to factor in such things when comparing tenures of employees of their team.

[Crabcakes]

11 hours ago, iceman64 said:

Actually a kick in the rear might not be enough, after being injured, he lost mobility and some he probably may never get back and being able to pivot can only be overcome to a certain degree by positioning but not all the time which is just as bad as attitude (or lack of it) in his case.. 

 In my mind this was a no brainer move by JB, got another player who is bigger, faster, more physical that we need and a good passer who can help on the PK until we get out systems down and play better in it, we'll certainly need that out of Lammikko and he's got experience so an easy pick for some help on the PK until the penalties start to drop.

 Juulsen? Imo could do with some more experience to get better but Rathbone simply out everythinged OJ, end of story... 

 Nothing wrong with this move at all.. 

You're right, my post only comments on part of the story.  The other, and as you say, more serious part is his injury history which has made him unable to pivot very well and opposing forwards are just skating wide around him on a regular basis.   If that doesn't improve, he won't be an NHL regular.  I guess their hope was that given enough time, he would regain the ability to pivot but it's 2 years since the hip issue and longer on the back and knee so how long do you give it for recovery?  Is this ever going to get better?

 

The other part is the return which I think is pretty good for a guy who will likely never be a top 6 regular, they get a similar D project but he's right handed instead of left and another depth type forward which Benning added a lot of this past off season.  They have plenty of right handed D at the AHL level

 

It's a similar move to Gaudette imo.  Take a guy who isn't a great fit and can't quite make the team and swap him for depth.  

[Locke Lamora]

21 minutes ago, Toyotasfan said:

I think Jolevi will develop into an NHL regular in Florida , if I’m wrong I owe JB an apology.

If OJ develops into a solid NHL regular I’ll apologize to his stalwart defenders on this forum.

[mikeyman109]

3 minutes ago, AV. said:

Again, the original comment to the user is about why fans regard one GM as better than the other --> the reason being "success on the ice".  You can dissect this, break it down, attempt to contextualize it, find any excuse for it, etc but the history books show that one GM won a bunch during his tenure and the other has yet to even put together what we could call a sustainable playoff team.  Yes, not an equitable way to look at things but fans don't care to factor in such things when comparing tenures of employees of their team.

Again I dont consider Gillis to be a great GM, like i said he benefited from the better actual GMs that came before him and both Burke and Nonis got jobs afterwards because they did the job better as a GM then Gillis did. I am ok with fans not being happy with what we have had to endure the years JB has had to rebuild but to compare Gillis to what JB has had to do its not really a fair comparison and its always done holding Gillis up like he did such a great job. Like i said starting at mile 25 and ALMOST winning the marathon is all i give Gillis credit for. He did the paper clip trade up to a house only to start with an unfinished house not the paper clip Benning has had to start with.

[AV.]

3 minutes ago, mikeyman109 said:

Again I dont consider Gillis to be a great GM, like i said he benefited from the better actual GMs that came before him and both Burke and Nonis got jobs afterwards because they did the job better as a GM then Gillis did. I am ok with fans not being happy with what we have had to endure the years JB has had to rebuild but to compare Gillis to what JB has had to do its not really a fair comparison and its always done holding Gillis up like he did such a great job. Like i said starting at mile 25 and ALMOST winning the marathon is all i give Gillis credit for. He did the paper clip trade up to a house only to start with an unfinished house not the paper clip Benning has had to start with.

 Yes, not an equitable way to look at things but fans don't care to factor in such things when comparing tenures of employees of their team.

[tas]

remember when people raged about jordan subban and the opportunities he never got? how benning would rue the day he offloaded eddie lack? how letting toronto have frankie corrado for free would haunt us for years to come? how shinkaruk for granlund would cause the earth to shatter and split apart, ending all life as we know it?

 

perspective, folks. take a deep breath.