FIRE Jim Benning & Travis Green Thread

[Nave]

2 minutes ago, ey40 said:

It is really hard to tell when he traded away draft picks every year to speed up the rebuilding. Other than the 6 players you name, which players do you think are ready to play in the big league, especially in the defense?

 

I was pretty big on Lind and Gadjovich before we lost both of them. Lockwood probably should be playing for us right now. I think Rathbone will be a solid NHLer when he develops. Woo is a pretty underrated prospect, and I'm excited about the chemistry he has with Rathbone. I had faith in Juolevi before we traded him, and kind of wish we never did; but if Juulsen gets back on track he could be a solid bottom pairing guy--he was actually pacing pretty well before his eye injury. People are upset we traded Jonathan Dahlen--myself included--but Linus Karlsson is playing pretty well in the SHL. Tryamkin would be amazing for us if he didn't opt for the KHL.
As you can see, Benning has made some questionable trades, but a lot of things were out of his control. We made out from both expansion drafts pretty well considering.
I'm not necessarily against firing Benning in the offseason--just not mid-season. 

[ShawnAntoski]

5 hours ago, Provost said:

... umm for a chance to make millions of dollars and run a team in the best league on the planet starting in a situation where there is pretty much nowhere to go but up for the team?  His kids are grown up now (and are all splitting time between Russia and America as they are American born and having careers that aren't confined to Russia) and he is comfortable on both continents with both languages.

 

Tryamkin ain't going here - too much going on outside of hockey 

[PositionOfPower]

Hello Mr. Aquilini there is a reason in european football for example elite clubs go for the top managers with good win % and sack disappointing managers with no excuses or mercy IMMEDIATELY because this is a business and wins and for the fans should be top priority. If Green was manager in football he would have been sacked 10 times already. He lacks the ability to motivate his players, he lacks the tactical ability, he is stubborn and lacks the ability to adapt.

[danjr]

Well I was hoping to come home to some good news.  Frankly I am really disappointed.

Now was the time to make the executions.  Anything past this date is irrecoverable.  I don't know any coach that comes into a team and has had immediate and lasting success.

There could be initial success for a new coach, then failure into old bad habits.
Then there could also be limited results, then the system clicks and the team gets on a roll.

With waiting any longer, we risk having to play 600 650 or even 700 hockey to make the playoffs.  Another wasted season is right around the corner and it was all lost right at the start.  Who cares if we are close to the fight at the end of the season if we don't make it.  Any and all lost points now can't help us....but could have helped us.

If we play 5 more games like this, with no results, I am sorry to say the season is gone.  Ownership was to slow and not paying enough attention to exactly what kind of team was on the ice and how it was performing.

I know so many of us fans have watched these games and are wonder "why are we playing so sh!^^y"  If the fans can see our team is bobbing the puck, flubbing passes, slow to puck battles, late on blocking shots skating lazily.  How in the $%&^ can ownership not see this???

So sick of this crap. 

[Bobby James]

I understand the conversation around a new coach. I think I agree and getting someone new for the team at this point is likely the next best step. However, can people please call out who they want to replace Green with? I'm unsure who is available, but at this point it sounds like Shaw would be named interim head coach and honestly that isn't really that inspiring to hear considering he hasn't gotten a proper head coaching job in the NHL yet. He was once named head coach for the Islanders where he was an assistant, but they missed the playoffs still and the record was about 500, then he was let go after the season (I am glad he is here still as an assistant coach!). 

 

I'll say though what I do not understand is why the hell we are talking about Benning right now. Some say he is the worst others defend him like crazy. I think neither and he seems like a roughly average GM that has done good things and bad things. What he did do though is put together a core of Peaty, Brock, Hughes and Demko (Horvat of course already the first piece here) along with great additions like Miller, Garland and exciting prospects Hoglander and Podz. 

 

Up until this season 99% of our fanbase was excited about this core group (I was and still am too). So what baffles me is why we are 20 games into this season and we're talking about fixing our problems by firing the GM right now. Who cares about the GM at the moment!? Our core group is playing really bad and that is what needs to be fixed first before worrying about our 3rd pair LD or a depth forward. This isn't about the GM or an immediate need for better depth guys. We are so far away from a playoff spot and I promise you all depth is not the reason. Our GM isn't going to go out there and score goals and I don't think keeping Mack or who plays 4C really matters at this moment. Up until this season everyone looked at our team and thought there was tons of potential and young talent. Didn't we all think we'd maybe lose games, but it would be 5-4 or 7-6. This young offensive core isn't producing much at all and they are controlling the play even less. 

 

Anyway sorry for so many words, I know everyone is frustrated (and the team of course the most). I still want us to go forward with this core, we've had some incredibly exciting games the last few years from them and I believe they can overcome this (admittedly large) hurdle. I think a coaching change is the logical next step and hopefully under a new person the team can find themselves and get back to where they were heading. 

 

 

[Mike Vanderhoek]

At this point to be honest if we have been listening to ownership, Benning and Green throughout it sounds to me like there will NOT be any changes on the coaching front. Bringing in Shaw was supposed to be a boost to the team's defense and penalty kill. So I am of the mindset the learning curve there and adjustment went sideways but is still the team's plan and maybe this will take time ?

 

I see Green staying on as coach as unpopular and insane as that sounds.

 

My choice however to answer your question would be Bruce Boudreau as coach.

[Bobby James]

5 minutes ago, Mike Vanderhoek said:

My choice however to answer your question would be Bruce Boudreau as coach.

Okay cool thanks for answering. A very interesting choice and I think it could be good. Great regular season history and not great in the playoffs. Bit of a risk, but still like it. 

[Canuck Luck]

Sad that there have not been a slough of firings today.

[ey40]

5 hours ago, Nave said:

I was pretty big on Lind and Gadjovich before we lost both of them. Lockwood probably should be playing for us right now. I think Rathbone will be a solid NHLer when he develops. Woo is a pretty underrated prospect, and I'm excited about the chemistry he has with Rathbone. I had faith in Juolevi before we traded him, and kind of wish we never did; but if Juulsen gets back on track he could be a solid bottom pairing guy--he was actually pacing pretty well before his eye injury. People are upset we traded Jonathan Dahlen--myself included--but Linus Karlsson is playing pretty well in the SHL. Tryamkin would be amazing for us if he didn't opt for the KHL.
As you can see, Benning has made some questionable trades, but a lot of things were out of his control. We made out from both expansion drafts pretty well considering.
I'm not necessarily against firing Benning in the offseason--just not mid-season. 

Seriously I am not sold on Rathbone, especially under the guidance of Nolan Baumgartner.

Edited November 16, 2021 by ey40

[wallstreetamigo]

2 hours ago, Nave said:

I'm tired of people characterizing Benning's tenure as "8 years of failure." We were a rebuilding team for much of that time, and he drafted really well. We have him to thank for Demko, Boeser, Pettersson, and Hughes; plus Podkolzin and Klimovich look like players. He has also made some savvy trades like the one for JT Miller. This team on paper is the best we've had since 2011. Our poor start is not on the GM, it's on the coach.

This has pretty much never been a rebuilding team, at least not on purpose. Benning has managed to draft high as a direct result of his massive and consistent failures with his annual retool moves. If any of his collosal mistake signings had worked out even close to how he said they would, no EP, no Hughes, no Podkolzin. 

 

Funny how most of the truly impact drafting in his tenure was while Brackett was running the department. He has traded picks like a guy who was retooling all along.

[Nave]

2 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

This has pretty much never been a rebuilding team, at least not on purpose. Benning has managed to draft high as a direct result of his massive and consistent failures with his annual retool moves. If any of his collosal mistake signings had worked out even close to how he said they would, no EP, no Hughes, no Podkolzin. 

 

Funny how most of the truly impact drafting in his tenure was while Brackett was running the department. He has traded picks like a guy who was retooling all along.

We weren't allowed to rebuild in the beginning because Linden and ownership wanted to do right by the Sedins. Two years after they retired we made it to the playoffs out of the bubble.  Then we underperformed in a weird COVID-shortened season where we had by far the worst schedule in the league. Now we're underperforming again, but I have faith we will turn it around--without Green. 

Benning was clear in his intent to sign veterans so our young guys have leadership and can learn how to win. When we beat the defending champs in the bubble, it looked like his plan was working. 

 

The pandemic has really affected our team negatively, particularly our young players. That is out of Benning's control. 

 

Are you saying that trading our 1st for Miller was a bad move? I'd do that again any day. How bout trading our 1st with Loui, Beagle, and Roussel for OEL and Garland? The jury is still out on Ekman-Larsson, but Garland looks like a gem. 

[wai_lai416]

today was the perfect day to fire the coach as it'll give them 1 practice day tmw before the game.. now that it's come and gone i doubt we will see anything till at least after the next game

[Sharpshooter]

3 hours ago, Mike Vanderhoek said:

At this point to be honest if we have been listening to ownership, Benning and Green throughout it sounds to me like there will NOT be any changes on the coaching front. Bringing in Shaw was supposed to be a boost to the team's defense and penalty kill. So I am of the mindset the learning curve there and adjustment went sideways but is still the team's plan and maybe this will take time ?

 

I see Green staying on as coach as unpopular and insane as that sounds.

 

My choice however to answer your question would be Bruce Boudreau as coach.

I think the core will play for anyone other than Green at this point. I think he’s lost the confidence of his core players. 
 

I think they’re undermining him to get Green out, for whatever reason that I’m not privy to. I think they’re sick and tired of his vision and his blenderama. 
 

Just my opinion. 
 

 

[Sharpshooter]

4 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

today was the perfect day to fire the coach as it'll give them 1 practice day tmw before the game.. now that it's come and gone i doubt we will see anything till at least after the next game

If there isn’t a Miracle On Ice on this home stand, I expect Benning to fire Green. 
 

I expect Benning to ensure his own job security by showing Franco that he’s looking out for his bottom line. 
 

The question however is, does Benning have a replacement plan? Will it just be Green or Green and his staff? 

[Trebreh]

 

IT IS HAPPENING 

[Pickly]

I obviously want change too but we have to look at the reality here. Aquilini went all in with Benning and Green at the beginning of the year, giving them every ounce of his confidence that this year was going to be different and missing the playoffs would be extremely disappointing. Nobody in that front office  expected a disaster would unfold this quickly into the season, and clearly there  wasn’t much of a contingency plan in case of it. Francesco is going to give these two every single inch of leash possible to try and right this ship, meaning things are going to have to get even worse, say a couple of ugly losses on home ice with a disgruntled home

crowd paying witness to it, before he is left no choice but to act. Aquilini cares most about the season ticket holders think rather than the noise on Twitter and through the media. Until the fans come unglued at Rogers Arena or people stop showing up to games, I have a hard time seeing anybody get fired unless they get throttled on home ice and we hear the boos and chants. 
 

 

As I write this I just seen Sekeres’ tweet lol. Tell me I’m wrong here, Matt. 

Edited November 16, 2021 by Pickly

[wallstreetamigo]

39 minutes ago, Nave said:

We weren't allowed to rebuild in the beginning because Linden and ownership wanted to do right by the Sedins. Two years after they retired we made it to the playoffs out of the bubble.  Then we underperformed in a weird COVID-shortened season where we had by far the worst schedule in the league. Now we're underperforming again, but I have faith we will turn it around--without Green. 

Benning was clear in his intent to sign veterans so our young guys have leadership and can learn how to win. When we beat the defending champs in the bubble, it looked like his plan was working. 

 

The pandemic has really affected our team negatively, particularly our young players. That is out of Benning's control. 

 

Are you saying that trading our 1st for Miller was a bad move? I'd do that again any day. How bout trading our 1st with Loui, Beagle, and Roussel for OEL and Garland? The jury is still out on Ekman-Larsson, but Garland looks like a gem. 

Like I said, they never INTENTIONALLY rebuilt. They simply sucked hard at retooling every year. 

 

The COVID excuse is one you can’t have both ways. The bubble year they only got into the playoffs because the season was shut down early. The next year, they sucked all year BEFORE the COVID outbreak. What’s your excuse for that?

 

They played well against St Louis but let’s be fair, STL played like crap that series. They then got absolutely dominated by Vegas and only god like goaltending got them out of a 5 game wrecking in that series. 
 

Trading for Miller was good. Trading for Toffoli and letting him walk? Not so good. OEL and Garland are fine but he also traded short term cap problems for the potential of long term ones with OEL. We won’t know the outcome of that for awhile. 
 

The signing (crappy) veterans to provide leadership certainly didn’t create a winning culture did it? This team right now has a losing culture and has for all of Benning’s time here. And your post highlights why. Our gm, coach, and players also make excuses blaming outside factors rather than looking in the mirror and taking accountability. 

[wai_lai416]

26 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

If there isn’t a Miracle On Ice on this home stand, I expect Benning to fire Green. 
 

I expect Benning to ensure his own job security by showing Franco that he’s looking out for his bottom line. 
 

The question however is, does Benning have a replacement plan? Will it just be Green or Green and his staff? 

i doubt there's a replacement plan.. usually team that fires mid season either rides the rest of the season by promoting the assistant as interim or they promote the ahl coach.. neither is a great option.. i have 0 faith nor trust in brad shaw as a head coach.. he's a career assistant coach.. almost 20 years of nhl coaching experience and only 40 games as head coach and only becoz the head coach was fired and he had 3 years of AHL head coaching experience? and his record isn't exactly great there either. same with trent cull 0 nhl experience so that's another hard pass.. 

[wallstreetamigo]

6 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

i doubt there's a replacement plan.. usually team that fires mid season either rides the rest of the season by promoting the assistant as interim or they promote the ahl coach.. neither is a great option.. i have 0 faith nor trust in brad shaw as a head coach.. he's a career assistant coach.. almost 20 years of nhl coaching experience and only 40 games as head coach and only becoz the head coach was fired and he had 3 years of AHL head coaching experience? and his record isn't exactly great there either. same with trent cull 0 nhl experience so that's another hard pass.. 

Shaw as interim coach is fine. The team needs a new GM and a PoHO in a bad way. 

[wai_lai416]

1 hour ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Shaw as interim coach is fine. The team needs a new GM and a PoHO in a bad way. 

nope still not a fan of this. i'm sick and tired of these 0 nhl head coaching experience coaches.. imagine if shaw does ok and then the team promotes him to hc.. honeymoon over same crap again next year. no thx.