Harold Drunken Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Goal:thecup said: Why don't you put JR's statement that we are not letting him walk for nothing up on your monitor. Then you won't have to repeat yourself like this. You know as well as I do that facts, statistics, examples and proof mean nothing on here. He probably shouldn't waste his time. CDC: opinions > facts Edited July 19, 2022 by Harold Drunken 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 14 minutes ago, Goal:thecup said: Why don't you put JR's statement that we are not letting him walk for nothing up on your monitor. Then you won't have to repeat yourself like this. If we are a playoff team (or close) come the 2023 TDL would our owner allow a Miller Trade? I think the closer we get to the 2023 TDL (without a Miller Trade) the more likely he leaves July 1 and we get no return. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 1 hour ago, Boudrias said: For those that think Miller can be resigned on a club friendly deal, good luck on that. Miller will want term and money. What is probably worse is he will want a NMC or NTC to cement is ability to dictate any movement later in his term. IMHO Miller has to be traded. It is asset management which is new for the Canucks. Saying this I am assuming there is a good market for JT. If he is not moved then we will know, and he will know, that his marketplace is not as strong as thought. I have little expectation that Miller will resign in Vancouver. The longer this drags out, the higher the risk is to Miller and to the Canucks. An acquiring team will want to resign JT and it would likely be advantageous for him to do so. Going into the season with JT playing in Van is a risk due to possible injury or a possible regression of his performance compared to last year. Neither of those possibilities are good for JT or the Canucks. I don't think its quite this simple. I'm sure you'd agree Tampa has been a good asset management team, but they didn't do it by letting their best, or even oldest, players go. They moved other pieces. I think a better comparison for us is if we moved Garland, e.g. not Miller. Tampa didn't move Point they moved guys like Goodrow, and Miller when he was on their 3rd line (https://www.capfriendly.com/trades/lightning). I'm not sure Miller goes for every cent either, we just saw lil Johnny leave $15 mil on the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 2 minutes ago, Alflives said: If we are a playoff team (or close) come the 2023 TDL would our owner allow a Miller Trade? I think the closer we get to the 2023 TDL (without a Miller Trade) the more likely he leaves July 1 and we get no return. based on the meh returns we've heard and speculated about, why would that be so bad? do you not see any value in playoff experience for Hughes and Petey? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post -DLC- Posted July 19, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted July 19, 2022 People who don't want JT to walk for nothing don't realize that we also shouldn't let him go for just "something" that's less than what his value is, which is what teams appear to be offering. I'm sure this management group is capable of assessing that and has. So the worst case scenario is he plays out his contract then walks....if he's "too old" to re-sign here why are people so bothered about it? Many players these days test FA and it's just part of the deal (or no deal). I think taking him out of the line up creates a huge hole that impacts the other players...so a return for down the road to secure our future might also hamper it a bit in that regard. You have to think of the immediate impact that would have on the team as a whole, not just slot in a return that, like JT, wouldn't have any guarantees for success. Some here don't factor in the human element and how JT fits here when other players may not. Chemistry matters and, right now, they're building some. This team needs stability in the here and now (which is what Bruce started) and looking to the future sort of overlooks that. One step at a time. 1 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post 73 Percent Posted July 19, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted July 19, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, -DLC- said: People who don't want JT to walk for nothing don't realize that we also shouldn't let him go for just "something" that's less than what his value is, which is what teams appear to be offering. So the worst case scenario is he plays out his contract then walks....if he's "too old" to re-sign here why are people so bothered about it? Many players these days test FA and it's just part of the deal (or no deal). I think taking him out of the line up creates a hug hole that impacts the other players...so a return for down the road to secure our future might also hamper it a bit in that regard. Something > nothing Every single time. Benning was harped on for throwing away assets in trades. Yet it's okay to not gain any assets in a Miller trade if he walks next year? Sorry. Not buying it. Any assets that could have been gained in a Miller trade, is an asset lost if he walks for nothing. Edited July 19, 2022 by 73 Percent 1 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 3 minutes ago, JM_ said: based on the meh returns we've heard and speculated about, why would that be so bad? do you not see any value in playoff experience for Hughes and Petey? The return at the TDL (especially if we retain) would be multiple firsts and top prospects. Can we afford to miss out on that opportunity for a “hope” of playoff experience? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 5 minutes ago, 73 Percent said: Something > nothing Every single time. Benning was harped on for throwing away assets in trades. Yet it's okay to not gain any assets in a Miller trade if he walks next year? Sorry. Not buying it. Any assets that could have been gained in a Miller trade, is an asset lost if he walks for nothing. Assets sometime are liabilities or, at the very least, not guaranteed assets. They don't always pan out. You roll the dice in either scenario. People talk like the return is an immediate up grade and that's as unpredictable as JT completely falling off as he hits 30. The something is better than nothing argument....the something could turn out to be nothing. We've had a few of those too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
73 Percent Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 Just now, -DLC- said: Assets sometime are liabilities or, at the very least, not guaranteed assets. You roll the dice in either scenario. All I get from this is it's okay when JR does it but want okay for Benning. Assets are sometimes liabilities. Other times they turn into Jannik Hansen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 Just now, Alflives said: The return at the TDL (especially if we retain) would be multiple firsts and top prospects. Can we afford to miss out on that opportunity for a “hope” of playoff experience? multiple 1sts? and a top prospect? so something like NYIs 2023 and 2024 1sts and Kakko? is that what you think we'd be offered? If a team saw Miller as that valuable, why hasn't something like that been offered yet? I don't see how JR/PA could say no to something like that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 3 minutes ago, -DLC- said: People who don't want JT to walk for nothing don't realize that we also shouldn't let him go for just "something" that's less than what his value is, which is what teams appear to be offering. I'm sure this management group is capable of assessing that and has. So the worst case scenario is he plays out his contract then walks....if he's "too old" to re-sign here why are people so bothered about it? Many players these days test FA and it's just part of the deal (or no deal). I think taking him out of the line up creates a huge hole that impacts the other players...so a return for down the road to secure our future might also hamper it a bit in that regard. You have to think of the immediate impact that would have on the team as a whole, not just slot in a return that, like JT, wouldn't have any guarantees for success. Some here don't factor in the human element and how JT fits here when other players may not. Again, you're assuming he wants to be here, while ignoring the fact that most of us advocating a trade are doing so assuming he doesn't. You're making it out like we just want him gone, which is not the case. I think he has no desire to.stay in Canada to finish his career 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therodigy Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 9 minutes ago, 73 Percent said: Something > nothing Every single time. Benning was harped on for throwing away assets in trades. Yet it's okay to not gain any assets in a Miller trade if he walks next year? Sorry. Not buying it. Any assets that could have been gained in a Miller trade, is an asset lost if he walks for nothing. Something is indeed better than nothing, but remember how upset people were when Motte only got a 2023 4th round pick... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 1 minute ago, 73 Percent said: All I get from this is it's okay when JR does it but want okay for Benning. Assets are sometimes liabilities. Other times they turn into Jannik Hansen. We have to get over the Benning trauma...JR doesn't own that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 5 minutes ago, 73 Percent said: All I get from this is it's okay when JR does it but want okay for Benning. Assets are sometimes liabilities. Other times they turn into Jannik Hansen. so lets put some numbers to this - would you have the team miss the playoffs if the best part of the return was a pick in the 25-32 range? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BPA Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 When EP and QH are hitting their prime, Canucks need cheap ELC coming in to offset their huge salaries. The prospect cupboard is bare with very little coming in. Especially on D (where the Canucks need it the most). 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 1 minute ago, -DLC- said: Assets sometime are liabilities or, at the very least, not guaranteed assets. They don't always pan out. You roll the dice in either scenario. If we were a Cup level team (like the great teams Gillis built) then of course it’s okay to have UFAs leave after the playoffs. Those teams give up assets to rent guys of Miller’s quality from teams like ours. We aren’t a top team. We are a playoff bubble team. We need picks and prospects. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 4 minutes ago, stawns said: Again, you're assuming he wants to be here, while ignoring the fact that most of us advocating a trade are doing so assuming he doesn't. You're making it out like we just want him gone, which is not the case. I think he has no desire to.stay in Canada to finish his career "I think he has no desire"....doesn't equate to "he has no desire". You could be right, and that's something to consider for sure. We just don't know and that's the truth of the matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flat land fish Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 Given how slow the ufa side of things is on kadri and Klingberg I don’t think it’s likely we see a trade before the season on Miller. If at the trade deadline we can’t extend Miller then the best move move for going forward is to acquire some tradeable assets like high draft picks and use those in the off season to acquire a replacement roster player(s). If your first in your division and blowing away the competition then you bite your lip and keep him for the playoff run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 13 minutes ago, 73 Percent said: Something > nothing Playoff experience for our younger core is... something. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted July 19, 2022 Share Posted July 19, 2022 7 minutes ago, JM_ said: multiple 1sts? and a top prospect? so something like NYIs 2023 and 2024 1sts and Kakko? is that what you think we'd be offered? If a team saw Miller as that valuable, why hasn't something like that been offered yet? I don't see how JR/PA could say no to something like that. The offers will be futures at the TDL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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