[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[Baratheon]

8 minutes ago, stawns said:

I 100% guarantee that Miller and his agent disagree on that point

To be fair it probably doesn't matter if he and his agent agree or not.  Aren't we the only team that's allowed to offer him 8 years?  

 

Some team is probably willing to go 7 years x 8 though.

[SilentSam]

Age.. 

 

 

 

It’s a strawman , or scarecrow .

 

It’s great value to have a player of JT’s caliber, proven,  and playing on your team in his prime years, and what that means to the entire team and players.

Its worth far more than trading him for an unknown player or players, only being hopeful of the future where “promising” is a gamble, and more probability of the organization playing BINGO in the draft lottery.

 

There are a lot of good to great players , playing very well statistically from 30 years of age.

Term is not an issue if you start his Clauses open to moving after the 3rd or 4th season of his new contract..

something I think the player would embrace if this team is not a Cup Contender ..

 

The biggest loss besides his high point totals will be the leadership he inspires the younger core group with.  Mentorship like his is hard to come by,.  And will not be returning in a trade.

 

Age is a strawman ,  or scarecrow.

[Baratheon]

1 minute ago, SilentSam said:

Age.. 

 

 

 

It’s a strawman , or scarecrow .

 

It’s great value to have a player of JT’s caliber, proven,  and playing on your team in his prime years, and what that means to the entire team and players.

Its worth far more than trading him for an unknown player or players, only being hopeful of the future where “promising” is a gamble, and more probability of the organization playing BINGO in the draft lottery.

 

There are a lot of good to great players , playing very well statistically from 30 years of age.

Term is not an issue if you start his Clauses open to moving after the 3rd or 4th season of his new contract..

something I think the player would embrace if this team is not a Cup Contender ..

 

The biggest loss besides his high point totals will be the leadership he inspires the younger core group with.  Mentorship like his is hard to come by,.  And will not be returning in a trade.

 

Age is a strawman ,  or scarecrow.

It's a legitimate concern based on history.

 

Sure it would be great to him in his prime years.  If only those years were likely to extend past 2-3 when our management has said (multiple times) we should be ready to compete.

 

Reducing age to a "strawman" is just wishful thinking.

[aGENT]

1 minute ago, Baratheon said:

To be fair it probably doesn't matter if he and his agent agree or not.  Aren't we the only team that's allowed to offer him 8 years?  

 

Some team is probably willing to go 7 years x 8 though.

Problem being, I think that's one of the sticking points. Management has zero desire to go longer than 5-6 years, nor should they with where the club is. We can't even take advantage of that 8 year benefit... Unless it's the unlikely sign and trade 

 

This is the problem the "keep Miller" side has. It's a series of contradictions. He's simultaneously this amazing player we can't afford to lose but is also only going to return a late first, and/or not demand he's paid market value here .

 

The mental gymnastics I tell you! 

 

The "trade him" side doesn't want him gone just because. It's because we can all see the obvious conundrum that he's going to cost more to extend, than makes sense for the Canucks. We're not a team in win now mode. There's no way to become a team in win now mode, in the time frame it would require for a Miller extension to make any sense to us. We lack the organizational depth, the cohesive roster or the assets required to do so at present.

 

Getting assets from Miller however MIGHT help us do that in a few years. Just as he's likely declining. 

[Elias Pettersson]

50 minutes ago, Pure961089 said:

Because most of these players are 27 not 29.  But Huberdeau got 8 years so maybe Miller will get that too.  

Zibanejad and Hertl both got 8 year extensions.  They are both the same age as Miller.  Miller as a UFA will get a 9x7 year deal unless he drops to 70 points next year.

[SilentSam]

18 minutes ago, Baratheon said:

It's a legitimate concern based on history.

 

Sure it would be great to him in his prime years.  If only those years were likely to extend past 2-3 when our management has said (multiple times) we should be ready to compete.

 

Reducing age to a "strawman" is just wishful thinking.

Your not thinking of the complexity that this player bring to us at this time.. and the next 4 years.

highly doubt JT drops below 60 points in 4 years…. If points are what your getting at.… and can unequivocally say that I think his leadership , drive, and mentorship of the young players he is playing with, will cause them to get worse.. (points)

Their play will also enhance or sustain his.

 

When players points (as a team) rise , so does everybody’s collectively.

 

100 points for JT ,  is another 200 points distributed amongst his teammates..

and Vice Versa.

 

if reducing the age argument to a “strawman” is just wishful thinking,.   Then it’s definitely a Scarecrow.

Edited August 7, 2022 by SilentSam

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, DeNiro said:

Age.

Zibanejad, Hertl, Huberdeau and Gaudreau are all 29 years old this year.  All of them...

[tas]

1 hour ago, 204CanucksFan said:

How about him playing center for the last 2 seasons. Or that the only person to take more faceoffs than JT since his arrival in Van is Bo.

that's coaching, not management. faceoffs don't define a center. and he played center out of necessity, not design. 

[Dazzle]

1 hour ago, Baratheon said:

No it isn't 

Ok, so it's just you two.

[Baratheon]

2 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

Your not thinking of the complexity that this player bring to us at this time.. and the next 4 years.

highly doubt JT drops below 60 points in 4 years…. If points are what your getting at.… and can unequivocally say that I think his leadership , drive, and mentorship of the young players he is playing with, will cause them to get worse..

Their play will also enhance or sustain his.

 

When players points (as a team) rise , so does everybody’s collectively.

 

100 points for JT ,  is another 200 points distributed amongst his teammates..

and Vice Versa.

 

if reducing the age argument to a “strawman” is just wishful thinking,.   Then it’s definitely a Scarecrow.

We have other players aside from JT that provide leadership.  We have a new coach.  Sedins + Samuelsson as well.  Would Miller's leadership be missed?  Sure but it's hardly a make or break aspect for this team.

 

The guy has topped 60 points in his career twice so no it's not out of the realm of possibility that he drops below that in his 30's.  

 

You can belittle age with whatever term you like.  It's still a legitimate concern around the league as is paying a player coming off a career year.

 

Bringing up future or current hall of famers as an example while ignoring the rest only further proves my point.

[Baratheon]

3 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

Ok, so it's just you two.

Oh I see.  The rest don't exist.  So people have just been arguing with themselves then?  

 

Lol you tried!

[SilentSam]

1 minute ago, Baratheon said:

We have other players aside from JT that provide leadership.  We have a new coach.  Sedins + Samuelsson as well.  Would Miller's leadership be missed?  Sure but it's hardly a make or break aspect for this team.

 

The guy has topped 60 points in his career twice so no it's not out of the realm of possibility that he drops below that in his 30's.  

 

You can belittle age with whatever term you like.  It's still a legitimate concern around the league as is paying a player coming off a career year.

 

Bringing up future or current hall of famers as an example while ignoring the rest only further proves my point.

The Sedins are retired.

 

and I saw no one on this team take initiative to put this team on his back and command like he has since his arrival.

No,  Bo is not JT ,  nor does he possess that same value in leadership that JT brings to his entire team, including Bo.

[Baratheon]

Just now, SilentSam said:

The Sedins are retired.

 

and I saw no one on this team take initiative to put this team on his back and command like he has since his arrival.

No,  Bo is not JT ,  nor does he possess that same value in leadership that JT brings to his entire team, including Bo.

Samuelsson is retired as well believe it or not.  Bruce Boudreau also doesn't take too many shifts.  They still obviously have a leadership role on the team so I'm not sure what your point is supposed to be.

 

Bo?  Well he (like JT) is only one individual.  I'm not taking that bait though.  Plenty of others have addressed your views on him far better than I could.

 

Age is a legitimate concern around the league.  That's my point.  It might not be concerning to you but you are an outlier in that regard.

[John McClane]

Would Miller take a 6 years if the Canucks top load the deal?

 

Year(1) 11.5mil

Year(2) 11.5mil

No Trade first 2 years

Year(3) 8mil

Year(4) 7mil

Year(5) 6.5mil

Limited no trade years 3-4-5

Year(6) 3.5mil

no, no trade in final year

Total for example is 6 years 8Mil per

 

He gets peak Dollars for his peak years( in theory anyway).

[stawns]

20 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

The Sedins are retired.

 

and I saw no one on this team take initiative to put this team on his back and command like he has since his arrival.

No,  Bo is not JT ,  nor does he possess that same value in leadership that JT brings to his entire team, including Bo.

You have a weird thing going on with Horvat.  He's the leader of this team, regardless of what you think of him.........JT is a good leader as well, but he's a support guy for Bo.  They work pretty well together actually

[stawns]

4 minutes ago, John McClane said:

Would Miller take a 6 years if the Canucks top load the deal?

 

Year(1) 11.5mil

Year(2) 11.5mil

No Trade first 2 years

Year(3) 8mil

Year(4) 7mil

Year(5) 6.5mil

Limited no trade years 3-4-5

Year(6) 3.5mil

no, no trade in final year

Total for example is 6 years 8Mil per

 

He gets peak Dollars for his peak years( in theory anyway).

Why would he?

[JM_]

4 hours ago, Coconuts said:

I disagree, if we're gonna go for it we can do it without Miller, I'd move out him and guys like Pearson and Myers in their final year for picks,  prospects, or young NHL'ers. If we're not drafting top 10 we may as well get more bullets in the draft chamber, acquire more prospects. 

 

Folks get so caught up with the current roster that they ignore the glaring need that is our prospect pool. If we're four years out isn't that all the more reason to have more prospects drafted and developing sooner than later? Who's gonna step in as our young stars age and get even larger contracts than they have now? Our shallow prospect pool ain't doing that as it stands. We have maybe two blue chippers between Klimovich and Lekkerimaki.

 

We ain't likely to draft players middle of the pack and have them step in like Pettersson, Hughes, and Boeser have done. They'll need development time.

I'm not ignoring the prospect pool at all, just think it will take 4 years to restock. 

[JM_]

4 hours ago, Gawdzukes said:

I don't know man. The possibility that an American wants to do business in America and live in America instead of Canada seems like a distinct possibility. If that simply doesn't make sense to you then OK, no problem. (Head in sand reference though) And sure I think it's also logical Bo may want to play closer to home as well at some point, although Van has been his home since he's been an adult, and he has been treated very well and given large responsibility here. I don't think Bo has an option to go to Toronto anytime soon either.

 

It's also possible like you said he hates his in laws but I would think he likes his parents. Hid dad drove him to practice in Pittsburgh from ages 12 -16 and was by all accounts a dedicated hockey dad. I think family is heavily involved in JT's life. They are building a house in Pittsburgh. On some level this must make sense to you somewhere that he values family and might want to be near them.

 

Like you said though no one knows his true key motivations and maybe mountains and rain are his ultimate dream as is Canadian schooling, no guns, and our way of life. One thing I haven't seen mentioned is his hockey ties. I would guess growing up he had a lot of influential hockey people guiding his career, coaches, mentors, GM's, scouts, agents, players, friends, family, etc.. I would venture to guess that those types of people would have influence in JT's next decision, whomever they may be. JT may trust the vision of a certain GM, or simply resonate with the way their future is expressed to him.

 

I just got in and I'm catching up but holy the desperation by some is getting up there. 10 million a season over 8 years is alright for some now, I've heard give him whatever he wants by several posters, and now even draft picks are useless too. Jeepers ... that just sucks. I like having good young players in the system and a future to look forward to. I guess some people couldn't care less.

 

 

I can't get excited about an extra 25-31 pick, no, sorry that doesn't do it for me. Its a nice to have, sure. 

[JM_]

2 hours ago, stawns said:

I think they're still a playoff team without miller.  If they could get newhook and Girard from the Avs, I think they'd be better

that would be nice. Girard for sure would be a difference maker. 

[JM_]

3 hours ago, combover said:

We aren’t strong enough in any position in this franchise to not get even a late first. Tough to build anything if we don’t start developing players so we can save on the cap and be able to trade from a position of strength. 
Jb failed to acquire futures with pending ufas almost the entire time he was here look where it got us. An Empty farm and over paying older  ufas. 
keeping/losing  a player with a real chance to win a cup is a lot different than keeping/losing a player to get through 1 round hopefully. 

Guys walk to free agency every year is true but how many were traded as rentals first how many were on teams that had legit chances to win a cup or did win the cup and others teams have replacements for the guys lost in there system we don’t. 
 

we should be in a lot better position depth wise with how terrible this team has been but we aren’t we can’t lose to talent for nothing weathers it’s horvat EP boeser miller it would hurt this club
 

 

that late first is someone who won't help us for 4-5 years. There's a lot that needs to happen between now and the next core group, I'd rather try to hang on to Miller even with the risk of losing out on that pick.

 

If we're talking a young RFA d or C, thats a different story.