[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, JM_ said:

6 years ?

 

if thats true, then this team needs to be blown up and we need to start over. 

 

3 minutes ago, stawns said:

Why?  That's how long it takes teams to get to the point of being a top 4 contender.  That's why, even if JT truly wanted to stay, he doesn't fit the timeline and a massive deal will be an anchor just as the core is hitting it's prime and will need as much depth support that they can get .........deep teams win Cups.

Yup, 2'ish years as a bubble playoff team, building depth, adding pieces, ageing out our remaining inefficient ones, LTIR's buyouts etc, getting Hughes, Petey et al in to their early primes....

 

2'ish years banging on the playoff contender door, getting experience, realizing what it takes to win in the playoffs. Continue to build/add/refine.

 

Then the next  few years after that is hopefully when things come together and you have a legit "contender". Not a "bubble team" or even just a "round or two" team. A CONTENDER. And with luck and savvy management you hopefully have those +/- two previous years, plus another 4-5 with good, to very good, chances at a cup

 

Again Jimmy, that doesn't mean we can't be a fun to watch, competitive, or playoff team in the interim. It just means we're not a contender. It took the Tampa's, Colorado's etc time to get there too. You don't flip a switch and suddenly become a contender. And you certainly don't do that when you're missing a 3C, have a poor RHD with presently zero succession plan and a massive lack of organizational depth to push yourself to that contender status. 

 

There is no reason to "blow it up and start over". THIS is the start over after having blown it up the past few years.

[RWJC]

5 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

Yup, 2'ish years as a bubble playoff team, building depth, adding pieces, ageing out our remaining inefficient ones, LTIR's buyouts etc, getting Hughes, Petey et al in to their early primes....

 

2'ish years banging on the playoff contender door, getting experience, realizing what it takes to win in the playoffs. Continue to build/add/refine.

 

Then the next  few years after that is hopefully when things come together and you have a legit "contender". Not a "bubble team" or even just a "round or two" team. A CONTENDER. And with luck and savvy management you hopefully have those +/- two previous years, plus another 4-5 with good, to very good, chances at a cup

 

Again Jimmy, that doesn't mean we can't be a fun to watch, competitive, or playoff team in the interim. It just means we're not a contender. It took the Tampa's, Colorado's etc time to get there too. You don't flip a switch and suddenly become a contender. And you certainly don't do that when you're missing a 3C, have a poor RHD with presently zero succession plan and a massive lack of organizational depth to push yourself to that contender status. 

 

There is no reason to "blow it up and start over". THIS is the start over after having blown it up the past few years.

100

[Gawdzukes]

1 hour ago, RWJC said:

Not at all what I said or meant. 
I explained a bit further in most recent posts and hope that clarifies my stance on it. I agree with you, haha! I’m just debating playoff experience meaning more that you’re giving it credit for.

Sure in and of itself it's surely important but let's not lose all the context leading up to this point. Sorry for my "sarcasm" but I was having trouble understanding what you were saying. It sounded like you were saying we should go all in for playoffs this year because it's the most important thing.

[Gawdzukes]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

Throw In Seeley for taking on JK's contract risk, and I'd take that.

I'm really liking what I've seen out of him lately. 

[tas]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

I don't really want to debate semantics here...

I think you might be in the wrong place.

[KirkSave]

45 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Sure, this is true.  However, even if my opinion is wrong and Calgary WAS a cup contender, they certainly aren't one right now.

 

Which proves my point that they let their top forward walk for nothing and now they are screwed.  I don't think that the Canucks want to put themselves in that same position one year from now just so they can win a playoff round...

The Flames are not screwed. They still have a very competetive team with depth at every position. It sucked losing their 2 best forwards but replacing Johhny with Hubby is a wash and Weegar is a top 4 d-man, who only makes their D core that much stronger MT is pretty much irreplacable but at least they got a haul for him all things considered. They will be a tough out every night this coming season. They will be right there to repeat as div champs and if Marky can work on the glove side the Oilers exposed...they could go on serious run.

[sxqhfeh]

The problem with keeping Miller is that even if you manage to resign him, Bo is gone because you are not going to have the cap to sign both. And the year after next you have to resign Canucks so-called the best player EP40 ( 8x9.5?) and Podz and even though by then Myers contract is up is not going to be enough to be able to keep them as well. Miller rightly wants a 7-8 year deal and he's only going to be viable as a 1st line player for 2 maybe 3 more years depending on injuries. This is why Miller will have to be moved,  not that he's a horrible player, but because keeping him means that other forwards who are much younger and could end up much better than to make room for him to be on this roster.

[Slegr]

I sure miss Canucks hockey. 
 

Can’t wait to see Miller and the boys again in October.

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, stawns said:

Why?  That's how long it takes teams to get to the point of being a top 4 contender.  That's why, even if JT truly wanted to stay, he doesn't fit the timeline and a massive deal will be an anchor just as the core is hitting it's prime and will need as much depth support that they can get .........deep teams win Cups.

Sorry, did I miss the news conference where Demko and Hughes both were re-signed to extensions and both agreed they would happily stay in Vancouver through a 5-6 year rebuild?

[Elias Pettersson]

37 minutes ago, KirkSave said:

The Flames are not screwed. They still have a very competetive team with depth at every position. It sucked losing their 2 best forwards but replacing Johhny with Hubby is a wash and Weegar is a top 4 d-man, who only makes their D core that much stronger MT is pretty much irreplacable but at least they got a haul for him all things considered. They will be a tough out every night this coming season. They will be right there to repeat as div champs and if Marky can work on the glove side the Oilers exposed...they could go on serious run.

They have Backlund and Toffoli in their top 6.  They aren't going anywhere this year.  Huberdeau will help but we don't know how he is going to play without Barkov.  Lindholm lost his 2 buddies, will he regress from last year?  Lots of unknowns with Calgary.  Their right side D is one of the best in the NHL, but they are lacking in many other areas...

[Gawdzukes]

6 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Sorry, did I miss the news conference where Demko and Hughes both were re-signed to extensions and both agreed they would happily stay in Vancouver through a 5-6 year rebuild?

yup

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/canucks-sign-goalie-thatcher-demko-five-year-25m-extension/

 

https://lastwordonsports.com/hockey/2021/09/30/report-vancouver-canucks-extend-quinn-hughes/

 

 

 

 

[Warhippy]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Sure, this is true.  However, even if my opinion is wrong and Calgary WAS a cup contender, they certainly aren't one right now.

 

Which proves my point that they let their top forward walk for nothing and now they are screwed.  I don't think that the Canucks want to put themselves in that same position one year from now just so they can win a playoff round...

They're currently listed between 6th and 8th on almost every possible site regarding odds to win the cup.

 

That's a favourite

[Elias Pettersson]

7 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

They're currently listed between 6th and 8th on almost every possible site regarding odds to win the cup.

 

That's a favourite

If you go player for player down the list and you take out the right side D I would say the Canucks have a better team right across the board.  I would say it's not even close really.  Their only advantage is the right side D which is among the top in the NHL.  If they were to play Edmonton in the playoffs again I don't think the results would change much.  A better D but even less goals.

 

At the end of the day though they still got nothing for Gaudreau.  I am not sure that is going to help them in the long run, especially with their ageing team.  They don't have much in the pipeline.  They only have 2 players in their system that they drafted since 2017 that have played an actual game in the NHL.

[stawns]

32 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Sorry, did I miss the news conference where Demko and Hughes both were re-signed to extensions and both agreed they would happily stay in Vancouver through a 5-6 year rebuild?

Who said rebuild?  That's around how long it takes a bubble playoff to get to be a contender.

[Elias Pettersson]

20 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

yup

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/canucks-sign-goalie-thatcher-demko-five-year-25m-extension/

 

https://lastwordonsports.com/hockey/2021/09/30/report-vancouver-canucks-extend-quinn-hughes/

 

 

 

 

Haha, those contracts are when they were RFA's, of course they are going to take the money and term when they don't have any control of where they can go.  

 

Call me when they are re-signed to extensions as UFA's if the Canucks are still in rebuild mode and not a contender...

[Elias Pettersson]

Just now, stawns said:

Who said rebuild?  That's around how long it takes a bubble playoff to get to be a contender.

We were a bubble playoff team 2 years ago.  So the 5-6 year timeline is already in year 3.  Just like JR said, we are two years away from competing, not 5 or 6.  Demko and Hughes aren't sticking around if we are still a lottery team in 4 years...

[Gawdzukes]

Just now, Elias Pettersson said:

Haha, those contracts are when they were RFA's, of course they are going to take the money and term when they don't have any control of where they can go.  

 

Call me when they are re-signed to extensions as UFA's if the Canucks are still in rebuild mode and not a contender...

 Haha, obviously if the team hasn't made any strides in 4 years and they go into rebuild mode then they might want to leave. I'm pretty sure the plan is to get better though so that's a relief. 

[stawns]

4 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

We were a bubble playoff team 2 years ago.  So the 5-6 year timeline is already in year 3.  Just like JR said, we are two years away from competing, not 5 or 6.  Demko and Hughes aren't sticking around if we are still a lottery team in 4 years...

2 years from being a regular playoff team.......then probably a couple first or second exits, then a couple seasons of getting close to the finals and then a season or two of being a top contender........that's the path most champions take.  

[T.Demko]

3 hours ago, RWJC said:

I think you guys are missing what my point was. I just responded to @Gawdzukes sarcastic post about playoffs and experience. 
 

I’m pro-trading JTM to build that depth and assist in strengthening our weaknesses. And I’m for it because a team without him but overall potentially more capable, can get us into the post to see what we then have on our roster, how they adapt to the post game, and who had the character and heart to emerge as the new leadership core.

 

everybody wants to assume that EP and QH will be future leaders just because they have great IQ and put up pts. 
I for one am not sold that translates to what we require as true “leadership”.

 

The Kreiders, Jenners, Bergerons of the league are the type of players we are going to require to get to the post and lead consistently and it’s important  to acquire them now so they grow into the role. 
 

We have a glaring need to capture that identity asap. Then we will become a consistent playoff threat. 
 

JTM is that player, but unfortunately the timing is off and it’s best we get all the bang for our buck from him right now.

Your point was that, and is, as per the above post, it is important for us to make the playoffs to assess what we're missing, whether because we need to find a post-season leader a-la-Bergeron as you aren't confident in Hughes or EP's leadership, or other reasons... I just stated it wouldn't be very productive to do so at the cost of having JT walk in the summer if we already agree our team isn't built for the playoffs even with JT in it.

 

I don't think I missed your point on the importance of playoff experience and value, as I have quite clearly indicated in my last paragraph that I am with you on that point.  I have also never indicated QH or EP as our playoff leaders (nor am I objecting), as leadership never was part of any point made previously... nor do I have any intention on entering that debate.   

 

However, we clearly agree playoff experience is valuable not only to provide the experience to our team, but to fine-tune our team of the missing component.  We also agree JT's timing is off and we need to maximize on the return.  Therefore, in conclusion, why are we even debating?  lol.

[KirkSave]

49 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

They have Backlund and Toffoli in their top 6.  They aren't going anywhere this year.

Everything seemed to go their way last year after their covid hiatus. Career years for their big boys who are now gone. 2 huge holes for sure. But they are still going to be a solid team. Probably won't have those high scoring back and forth games with the Oilers (too bad cause that was great to watch) but they should still be a team that makes it to the dance IMO. Time will tell. Maybe Monahan fill rediscover his game? His contract is up after this season and players seem to go for broke when it's their time to show the NHL what they can do.