[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[Jester13]

This is what I'm increasingly expecting will happen (not that I necessarily agree with it):

 

Lock up Bo and Miller long term to something that works for both sides; roll with our current lineup for this year and next and see what they can do - see which current dman can step up and fill an important hole; let Myers' contract expire and then re-sign him as a bottom pair guy on the cheap for the rest of his career; clear dead weight in Dickie, Poolman, and Pearson; lock up Petey; trade a winger who we learn doesn't fit in the lineup; try to find another RHD in FA or trade throughout these next two years; cross our fingers that the cap goes up enough that it will help us build a contender this way. If it doesn't work then it's time to go through another rebuild, but do the rebuild right this time and stock the cupboards.

[DeNiro]

8 minutes ago, JM_ said:

tbh I've factored Poolman out of the lineup. I have doubts he's going to be any kind of meaningful participant here. Hope I'm wrong tho. 

And that’s probably why they’re looking at De Haan.

 

If Poolman is actually healthy and ready to go that just gives us another option. When he was on he looked like the player we all hoped he could be. 
 

Edited August 31, 2022 by DeNiro

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

This is what I'm increasingly expecting will happen (not that I necessarily agree with it):

 

Lock up Bo and Miller long term to something that works for both sides; roll with our current lineup for this year and next and see what they can do - see which current dman can step up and fill an important hole; let Myers' contract expire and then re-sign him as a bottom pair guy on the cheap for the rest of his career; clear dead weight in Dickie, Poolman, and Pearson; lock up Petey; trade a winger who we learn doesn't fit in the lineup; try to find another RHD in FA or trade throughout these next two years; cross our fingers that the cap goes up enough that it will help us build a contender this way. If it doesn't work then it's time to go through another rebuild, but do the rebuild right this time and stock the cupboards.

You're not getting Bo and Miller

[JM_]

3 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

I don't really care what Boudreau likes or doesn't like tbh as I don't see him being here too long. I like Bruce, I advocated for his hiring before Green was fired, but I just don't see him being the coach that's behind the bench when our young guys are in the meat of their prime years. 

 

I think it could work, but even if it works it cuts both ways imo. We'd have a great first pairing but a questionable other 4-5 guys. We've got a lot of third pairing D. 

yep, we've cornered the market on 3rd pairing d as the man said.

 

But there are some decent 2nd pair options as UFAs next season, particularly if we're looking for a solid left side partner for Myers last year here. 

[JM_]

3 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

This is what I'm increasingly expecting will happen (not that I necessarily agree with it):

 

Lock up Bo and Miller long term to something that works for both sides; roll with our current lineup for this year and next and see what they can do - see which current dman can step up and fill an important hole; let Myers' contract expire and then re-sign him as a bottom pair guy on the cheap for the rest of his career; clear dead weight in Dickie, Poolman, and Pearson; lock up Petey; trade a winger who we learn doesn't fit in the lineup; try to find another RHD in FA or trade throughout these next two years; cross our fingers that the cap goes up enough that it will help us build a contender this way. If it doesn't work then it's time to go through another rebuild, but do the rebuild right this time and stock the cupboards.

to me this has always been the most realistic view of where we are at. 

[DeNiro]

Just now, JM_ said:

yep, we've cornered the market on 3rd pairing d as the man said.

 

But there are some decent 2nd pair options as UFAs next season, particularly if we're looking for a solid left side partner for Myers last year here. 

Doesn’t matter if they’re third pair or not.

 

We just need enough options that can play up for stretches that don’t hurt us in our own end. I think we have enough there to do that.

 

Obviously not a long term solution but this was always going to take time with the poor drafting and development of D in our system for the last decade (and more).

[Coconuts]

1 minute ago, DeNiro said:

Money towards centers is better money than money towards wingers though. Good centers are much harder to find.

 

Obviously if Millers camp is still pushing for 9+ million then it won’t work. But if we can get him signed for something more reasonable like 8-8.5 on a longer deal (6-7 years) then it’s a good thing IMO.

 

A deal for a defenseman could come from trading some winger depth too. Trading Garland and Pearson for example frees up around 7 million. Enough to fit in another legit top 4 while keeping our center depth. That gives us a stronger roster IMO.

Certainly, you're always better off spending on centers. We can agree on that. But my preference is to spend big on D as opposed to forwards. I don't like how much it'd theoretically take to keep Miller, Horvat, and Pettersson down the middle long term. And success or not, players want to play, I do think ice time would be an issue on some level sooner or later. 

 

I also simply don't like the idea of retaining Miller and I've been quite adamant on this for a while. There are plenty of folks here who disagree with me here and that's fine, but I don't think he'll be worth what he gets over the duration of his entire contract. Folks have been going round in circles on this argument for months, but that's my side of the line. He's the piece I'd move. We'll see what happens in the end.

 

Garland is a player I keep imo. His bang for buck was great last season and I could see that continuing. He also brings a lot of the same qualities folks lionize Miller for, albeit in a smaller body. 

 

 

[grandmaster]

4 minutes ago, stawns said:

You're not getting Bo and Miller

Ok Mr Insider 

[smithers joe]

4 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

This is what I'm increasingly expecting will happen (not that I necessarily agree with it):

 

Lock up Bo and Miller long term to something that works for both sides; roll with our current lineup for this year and next and see what they can do - see which current dman can step up and fill an important hole; let Myers' contract expire and then re-sign him as a bottom pair guy on the cheap for the rest of his career; clear dead weight in Dickie, Poolman, and Pearson; lock up Petey; trade a winger who we learn doesn't fit in the lineup; try to find another RHD in FA or trade throughout these next two years; cross our fingers that the cap goes up enough that it will help us build a contender this way. If it doesn't work then it's time to go through another rebuild, but do the rebuild right this time and stock the cupboards.

that's the problem. we have 2 top 4 d-men and the rest are 3rd pairing d-men. i'ld like to see schenn with rathbone. give the kid a greater chance of success. OEL and hughes, that just leaves the second unit to re-do.

[Warhippy]

7 minutes ago, stawns said:

You're not getting Bo and Miller

I dare say Bo at 3rd line C is the logical option for Boudreau if he is going to roll 3 deep centres and I don't think Bo will be willing to stomach being relegated in a contract year after giving everything he has to this team from the day he was drafted.

 

That relegation will affect his bargaining power but also kind of shows him what management and coaching think of his abilities.  

 

Ya this will be an unpopular take but I really don't care, it's a slap in the face to a proud athlete not a glowing endorsement of rolling 3 deep centres.

 

Someone mentioned it best that Bo belongs in the top 6 and this team needs a real 3c as much as it needs an RHD

[Coconuts]

5 minutes ago, JM_ said:

yep, we've cornered the market on 3rd pairing d as the man said.

 

But there are some decent 2nd pair options as UFAs next season, particularly if we're looking for a solid left side partner for Myers last year here. 

Gotta have cap space to go fishing though and the raises we hand out this season and next will eat into some of whatever freed up by Ferland, Holtby, Virtanen, and Halak being off the books. Kuzmenko will also need a raise, and if he has success here he probably doesn't sign cheap. Dermott will also need a raise as a pending RFA after this coming season. 

 

At some point we're going to have to find a way to cannibalize cap from our forward group to allocate to our D. Myers 6M will likely be eaten up by whoever replaces him and the money freed up by Pearson and Dickinson likely goes to Pettersson and Podz. 

[DeNiro]

6 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Certainly, you're always better off spending on centers. We can agree on that. But my preference is to spend big on D as opposed to forwards. I don't like how much it'd theoretically take to keep Miller, Horvat, and Pettersson down the middle long term. And success or not, players want to play, I do think ice time would be an issue on some level sooner or later. 

 

I also simply don't like the idea of retaining Miller and I've been quite adamant on this for a while. There are plenty of folks here who disagree with me here and that's fine, but I don't think he'll be worth what he gets over the duration of his entire contract. Folks have been going round in circles on this argument for months, but that's my side of the line. He's the piece I'd move. We'll see what happens in the end.

 

Garland is a player I keep imo. His bang for buck was great last season and I could see that continuing. He also brings a lot of the same qualities folks lionize Miller for, albeit in a smaller body. 

 

 

And those reasons you like Garland are the same reason teams would be willing to give good value for him.

Maybe even more than Miller because of the fact that he’s cost controlled and in his prime.

 

I wanna keep Garland too, but if we can acquire a good young D for him while keeping our center depth, it might be the better move.

 

Also at any time we can develop another center Miller or Petey can be shifted back to wing. So it’s not like we couldn’t fill in other holes later and essentially shift those dollars to wing.

[Jester13]

6 minutes ago, smithers joe said:

that's the problem. we have 2 top 4 d-men and the rest are 3rd pairing d-men. i'ld like to see schenn with rathbone. give the kid a greater chance of success. OEL and hughes, that just leaves the second unit to re-do.

Dermott-Myers could work well enough as the second pairing for now, give them a chance, and then upgrade eventually when the right deal comes along. 

[J-Dizzle]

10 minutes ago, smithers joe said:

that's the problem. we have 2 top 4 d-men and the rest are 3rd pairing d-men. i'ld like to see schenn with rathbone. give the kid a greater chance of success. OEL and hughes, that just leaves the second unit to re-do.

Myers is a top 4 d. 

[DeNiro]

1 minute ago, Jester13 said:

Dermott-Myers could work well enough as the second pairing for now, give them a chance, and then upgrade eventually when the right deal comes along. 

Exactly.

 

There’s lots of examples of pairings around the league that don’t look impressive on paper but they get the job done. That’s all we need.

 

I also think people underestimate how bad Baumgartner was as a D coach. Cull may not be better but at least there’s hope that him and Yeo working together with the forwards can at least improve our breakouts.

[DeNiro]

7 minutes ago, J-Dizzle said:

Myers is a top 4 d. 

Yep.

 

Myers can play top 4 that’s not the issue. The issue is finding the right partner that complements his game.

 

Ideally a D man that is positionally sound, can skate, and make a good first pass. I would say Dermott or De Haan (if we can sign him) would be the best candidates.

 

Edited August 31, 2022 by DeNiro

[Coconuts]

2 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

And those reasons you like Garland are the same reason teams would be willing to give good value for him.

Maybe even more than Miller because of the fact that he’s cost controlled and in his prime.

 

I wanna keep Garland too, but if we can acquire a good young D for him while keeping our center depth, it might be the better move.

 

Also at any time we can develop another center Miller or Petey can be shifted back to wing. So it’s not like we couldn’t fill in other holes later and essentially shift those dollars to wing.

Perhaps, but I question the caliber of D we'd get in return as top 4D hold more value than 2nd line forwards. We won't know til we know though. But yeah, I get the argument regarding value. 

 

I don't think so, teams would likely view Miller as a 1st line forward. Even if on a shorter term basis. He's our best trade chip imo. 

 

Maybe, maybe not. Our prospect pool is pretty shallow and that's gonna be a longer term turnaround than the roster imo. Between Gillis and Benning there are too many years of misses for it not to be. Too many picks traded. I wouldn't count on getting a top six center from our own picks sooner than later. We don't have a single center in the system with top 6 upside and with us likely being a middle of the pack team (imo) it's unlikely we draft top 10. Our picks will probably be more the patient development kind of prospects than the jump into the NHL sooner than later kind of prospects. I mean, unless you count Lekkerimaki as a center whereas I project him as a winger. 

[J-Dizzle]

2 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Perhaps, but I question the caliber of D we'd get in return as top 4D hold more value than 2nd line forwards. We won't know til we know though. But yeah, I get the argument regarding value. 

I think value wise, Garland for Larsson would be close… I’m not sure the need is there for Seattle though. 

[JM_]

18 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Gotta have cap space to go fishing though and the raises we hand out this season and next will eat into some of whatever freed up by Ferland, Holtby, Virtanen, and Halak being off the books. Kuzmenko will also need a raise, and if he has success here he probably doesn't sign cheap. Dermott will also need a raise as a pending RFA after this coming season. 

 

At some point we're going to have to find a way to cannibalize cap from our forward group to allocate to our D. Myers 6M will likely be eaten up by whoever replaces him and the money freed up by Pearson and Dickinson likely goes to Pettersson and Podz. 

yep all true. Looking at next years cap tho I do think we can squeeze in the raises and a mid-pair left side d.

 

At some point tho we do need to shed a F or two. 

[Coconuts]

5 minutes ago, J-Dizzle said:

I think value wise, Garland for Larsson would be close… I’m not sure the need is there for Seattle though. 

I'd agree but I don't see Seattle moving Larsson out. They're already got an interesting forward group and I reckon they'll just see how season #2 goes. Eberle, Burakovsky, Schwartz, Bjorkstrand, Gourde, McCann, Wright, and Beniers gives them plenty of guys who should be playing in their top 6 already. Then they've a guy like Tanev who might be able to play a compliementary role. 

 

If they can get better team play out of their forward group, their D can keep their heads above water, and Grubauer bounces back I could see them giving teams more trouble this year than some folks might expect. If anything they probably look for an upgrade on D next offseason.

Edited August 31, 2022 by Coconuts