HorvatToBaertschi Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 19 minutes ago, stawns said: How will they re+sign Petey, Demko, podz etc etc and still be competitive? Pettersson’s deal ends when Myers goes off the books. it’s almost like that was the point. hughes ends when OEL does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 3 minutes ago, DeNiro said: It took Mackinnon and co 4 years after their first playoffs together to win the cup. The Canucks had their playoff run in 2020. If they can make the playoffs this year, and every year for the next 4 years it’s not that crazy to think they could figure out how to win it all. Playoff experience would not be the issue in that scenario, it would be getting the right mix of players and filling out our D core. That’s what JR and co have been tasked with. If they can’t do that in 4 years then they’ve likely made too many mistakes for it to happen. Do the Canucks have a MacKinnon, Makar, Rantanen that I'm not aware of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 1 minute ago, stawns said: Do the Canucks have a MacKinnon, Makar, Rantanen that I'm not aware of? Well that’s a completely different argument. We weren’t talking about if they were on their level we’re talking about core groups reaching the next level. None of those players are going to fall out of the sky. I would argue we have players with their potential though. Not out of the realm of possibility for Petey to be a 90-100 point player in his prime, Hughes to be a point per game or higher two way guy, and Podkolzin to develop into a legit top 6 winger. Mackinnon, Rantenen, and Makar weren’t those players until they became those players. We gotta hope that our guys can follow a similar path. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Well that’s a completely different argument. We weren’t talking about if they were on their level we’re talking about core groups reaching the next level. None of those players are going to fall out of the sky. I would argue we have players with their potential though. Not out of the realm of possibility for Petey to be a 90-100 point player in his prime, Hughes to be a point per game or higher two way guy, and Podkolzin to develop into a legit top 6 winger. Mackinnon, Rantenen, and Makar weren’t those players until they became those players. We gotta hope that our guys can follow a similar path. Rantenen, maybe. Mac and Makar, no one even close. If this team wants to be a contender, they're going to have to do it by committee, not on the backs of 2-3 players.....which means they need to spread the cap around to depth players and not pile it onto 3-4 players and hope they can get it done. They, simply, don't have those kinds of players in theor lineup, minus Demko. Edited August 31, 2022 by stawns 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86Viking Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 1 hour ago, DeNiro said: Why did Calgary just sign a 32 year old Kadri then? I guess Treliving didn’t read this article… Because they were a playoff team this past season and have an aging #1G. They also have gone all in with signing Huberdeau for 8 more years north of 10m. Whereas the Canucks have a #1G who is approaching his prime and has years left of top level goaltending and the main core group of Vancouver is well under 30, unlike Calgary. So to me totally different. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanuck Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 50 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said: But don't the players have it better there in terms of earning potential? Sorry I know very little of NFL contract rules. In a Forbes article I read a few years ago I was surprised to learn that the difference in average salary in the NFL/NHL differed by only about 500k and the average career length was very similar as well. The difference really lies in the higher paid players who in virtually every sport including NFL, the elite make WAY more than the elite in the NHL. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 10 hours ago, shiznak said: I don’t get where people get the belief that Miller is a great defensive player. The guy kills penalties, but that doesn’t necessarily mean he’s great at it. He even mentioned when he was being interviewed by John Scott a few weeks ago, that needs to work on his defensive game, be more engaging and win more puck battles in his own end. Yeah I agree with this, how a guy who gives up entirely on plays like JT does is touted as a defensive stalwart is mind boggling. When he’s engaged he’s good defensively, but he gives up defensively far too easy for my liking to be a player I would rely on defensively. Hope he works on that this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Goose Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 5 minutes ago, stawns said: Rantenen, maybe. Mac and Makar, no one even close. If this team wants to be a contender, they're going to have to do it by committee, not on the backs of 2-3 players.....which means they need to spread the cap around to depth players and not pile it onto 3-4 players and hope they can get it done. They, simply, don't have those kinds of players in theor lineup, minus Demko. This year is going to be really interesting as far as Petey goes….can he show he can become a true #1 C? 2011 era team did so well because the Sedins were true game breakers & the team had good depth. Demko is a game breaker Id say and I think Hughes has potential. If the Canucks lose Miller then a lot of the late game offensive needs fall on Petey. Not to mention the PP. The rest of the roster is supplementary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DeNiro Posted August 31, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 31, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, stawns said: Rantenen, maybe. Mac and Makar, no one even close. If this team wants to be a contender, they're going to have to do it by committee, not on the backs of 2-3 players.....which means they need to spread the cap around to depth players and not pile it onto 3-4 players and hope they can get it done. They, simply, don't have those kinds of players in theor lineup, minus Demko. Avs didn’t do it on the backs of 2-3 players though thats underselling them. And obviously comparing a 23 year old Pettersson to a 26 year old Mackinnon doesn’t compare. At Peteys age Mackinnon put up 53 points in 82 games. Mackinnon wasn’t even Mackinnon at that age yet. So to say that Pettersson will never reach his level hasn’t been determined yet. He’s just barely entering his prime. Also saying Hughes isn’t close is false. Yes Makar is the best defender in the league, but Hughes will likely be top 10 in his prime. You don’t need a Norris/Conn Smythe winner to win a cup. Hughes still has another level to reach too. Seems like you’re underselling our core and not recognizing that it took Mackinnon 9 seasons to become the player he has become. Pettersson has another 5 seasons before he will have played as much as Mackinnon has now. Lots of time to develop and gain playoff experience in that time. Edited August 31, 2022 by DeNiro 1 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 11 minutes ago, Canuckster86 said: Because they were a playoff team this past season and have an aging #1G. They also have gone all in with signing Huberdeau for 8 more years north of 10m. Whereas the Canucks have a #1G who is approaching his prime and has years left of top level goaltending and the main core group of Vancouver is well under 30, unlike Calgary. So to me totally different. Not totally different as both teams are looking at windows of contention. If anything it just makes the argument stronger to sign Miller as the Canucks window is just opening up whereas Calgary’s will likely close much sooner and that contract won’t have many years to provide value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 6 minutes ago, DeNiro said: Avs didn’t do it on the backs of 2-3 players though thats underselling them. And obviously comparing a 23 year old Pettersson to a 26 year old Mackinnon doesn’t compare. At Peteys age Mackinnon put up 53 points in 82 games. Mackinnon wasn’t even Mackinnon at that age yet. So to say that Pettersson will never reach his level hasn’t been determined yet. He’s just barely entering his prime. Also saying Hughes isn’t close is false. Yes Makar is the best defender in the league, but Hughes will likely be top 10 in his prime. You don’t need a Norris/Conn Smythe winner to win a cup. Hughes still has another level to reach too. Seems like you’re underselling our core and not recognizing that it took Mackinnon 9 seasons to become the player he has become. Pettersson has another 5 seasons before he will have played as much as Mackinnon has now. Lots of time to develop and gain playoff experience in that time. I'm not under selling the core, at all, I'm just looking at a different core than you I think. To me, the core that is going to win is built on Petey, Hughes, Horvat, Demko and Podz. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 Just now, stawns said: I'm not under selling the core, at all, I'm just looking at a different core than you I think. To me, the core that is going to win is built on Petey, Hughes, Horvat, Demko and Podz. It already is. They’ll all be in their prime in 2 years. If they’re not ready to contend in 4 then management likely didn’t surround them with the right players. If we spend that whole time trying to replace what we lost in Miller, then it’s gonna look pretty bad. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 34 minutes ago, stawns said: Do the Canucks have a MacKinnon, Makar, Rantanen that I'm not aware of? Are you suggesting we blow it up and rebuild again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 42 minutes ago, stawns said: You think this team is 2-3 years away from Avalanche/Lightning level? C'mon man Why is it so impossible? Just because? The Avs in 2018-19 finished 5th in their division and made the playoffs getting knocked out in the 2nd round. Their best defenceman at the time was Tyson Barrie. The 2 seasons after that, they improved incrementally finishing 2nd and then 1st in their division. By the 3rd season after finishing 5th in their division, they hoisted the Cup. C'mon man, things can change a lot in 2 or 3 years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 8 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said: Are you suggesting we blow it up and rebuild again? not even remotely. I am saying that spending upwards of $16-17m on two players is foolish because they are going to need cap space to support the young core of players who I think are going to be the core that emerges as contenders. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_314 Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, HKSR said: Why is it so impossible? Just because? The Avs in 2018-19 finished 5th in their division and made the playoffs getting knocked out in the 2nd round. Their best defenceman at the time was Tyson Barrie. The 2 seasons after that, they improved incrementally finishing 2nd and then 1st in their division. By the 3rd season after finishing 5th in their division, they hoisted the Cup. C'mon man, things can change a lot in 2 or 3 years. In the meantime, have you considered how long the Oilers' perpetual rebuild lasted, even though they had multiple #1 picks? In previous years teams like Columbus, Arizona and Florida also floundered despite being bottom-dwellers with high draft picks. Tearing down the roster to bare bones doesn't guarantee future success, plus IDK if our fanbase could survive another rebuild (the alternative to shipping off valuable vets to get those blue-chip picks is trading guys like Dickinson/ Myers, but those moves would require ample sweeteners). Edited August 31, 2022 by Phil_314 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 3 minutes ago, HKSR said: Why is it so impossible? Just because? The Avs in 2018-19 finished 5th in their division and made the playoffs getting knocked out in the 2nd round. Their best defenceman at the time was Tyson Barrie. The 2 seasons after that, they improved incrementally finishing 2nd and then 1st in their division. By the 3rd season after finishing 5th in their division, they hoisted the Cup. C'mon man, things can change a lot in 2 or 3 years. and you could argue they got there, in large part, by not spending huge money on an older player who didn't fit their timeline and would have siphoned off resources that allowed them to add to the emerging core of young players. By trading that player, they were also able to add to their depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 12 minutes ago, stawns said: I'm not under selling the core, at all, I'm just looking at a different core than you I think. To me, the core that is going to win is built on Petey, Hughes, Horvat, Demko and Podz. Right. And if those guys all hit their potential like Colorado's guys did, you'd have: Top 10 centre: Petey Top 10 defenceman: Hughes Top 10 defensive centre: Horvat Top 5 goaltender: Demko Top 10 power forward: Podkolzin That's on top of supporting cast game breaking snipers like Boeser, Lekkerimaki, etc. And who knows what levels guys like Hoglander, Kuzmenko, Rathbone, etc. could reach as supporting players. There's LOTS to like about this Canucks squad. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 Just now, stawns said: and you could argue they got there, in large part, by not spending huge money on an older player who didn't fit their timeline and would have siphoned off resources that allowed them to add to the emerging core of young players. By trading that player, they were also able to add to their depth. Not my point. My point is in 2 to 3 years, this team could be right up there. To conclude that in 2 to 3 years they'd be nowhere near the Avs is simply incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted August 31, 2022 Share Posted August 31, 2022 Just now, HKSR said: Right. And if those guys all hit their potential like Colorado's guys did, you'd have: Top 10 centre: Petey Top 10 defenceman: Hughes Top 10 defensive centre: Horvat Top 5 goaltender: Demko Top 10 power forward: Podkolzin That's on top of supporting cast game breaking snipers like Boeser, Lekkerimaki, etc. And who knows what levels guys like Hoglander, Kuzmenko, Rathbone, etc. could reach as supporting players. There's LOTS to like about this Canucks squad. the Canucks don't have anyone close to Mackinnon and Makar and though they didn't win the Cup on their own, they were certainly the top contributors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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