[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[RWJC]

29 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

Re-signing Miller - say for 5 more years, the Canucks would have him for the next 6 seasons.

 

That would be 6 more seasons of Miller leading the way with players like Pettersson, Podkolzin, etc as top 6 support, and possibly playoffs every season. Once the 6 years is over, Pettersson and Podkolzin etc. will be in their prime (with new prospects developing and playing behind them), and then Petey and Podkolzin etc. will take the reins and continue being a playoff team every year.  

 

Be great if they could re-sign Horvat too, at a reasonable price.

 

I think if they let Miller go, they will revert back to that boring team with no identity, the young guys in over their heads struggling to make playoffs.  They need Miller..

This is what I worry about. 
who do we know can justifiably fill his shoes in terms of his total contribution to this team.? We don’t have anyone in the pipeline that’s showing the same type of potential in a leadership role, let alone offensive prowess.

 

are we going to bring in bodies to redefine who this team is and potentially revert back to what just happened when we lost our core vet leadership group?

 

it’s a huge risk and can push back any gains made since the last major changes.

 

considering we’ve rarely had someone this valuable on the open market to potentially dangle, the return on Miller has, HAS, to be an unmitigated win/success and include a franchise foundational piece. This is a monumental moment in time for this franchise.

[HKSR]

46 minutes ago, BPA said:

Don’t think you can structure the payout that way anymore.  Think there was a change to the CBA.

I think you can only have a 25% variance between Year 1 and the final year of the deal.

[HKSR]

27 minutes ago, mll said:

 

 

The structure of the deal that you are proposing is not possible.  In a front loaded deal the lowest salary can't be less than 50% of the highest. 

 

There is no such thing as recapture penalties on contracts signed since 2013 regardless of the age of the player.  There are only 4 active recapture contracts left - Quick, Crosby, Carter and Keith. 

 

As for age 35 contract - it's only if the player is already 35 when his contract starts.  Also they no longer automatically stay on the books - depends on the structure of the contract.  They've changed that rule in the CBA MOU.   

 

A 50% variance?  That still seems high... I thought I read somewhere it was a 25% variance from Year 1.  That's why Grubauer's contract was initially rejected by the NHL.

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/nhl-rejects-seattle-krakens-deal-goaltender-philipp-grubauer/story?id=79208158

 

EDIT:  Nevermind, here it is:

 

"The NHL tightened up those salary rules in the new collective bargaining agreement, which was established in the summer of 2020. Front-loaded contracts in any "immediately adjacent years" can't exceed 25% variance with the first year of that contract, and any year of the contract can't exceed 60% variance from the highest year of the deal."

 

Edited February 25, 2022 by HKSR

[grandmaster]

2 hours ago, NUCKER67 said:

I really like all of the Cs (Dickinson aside):

 

Miller

Hoglander - Pettersson - Podkolzin

Horvat

Highmore - Lammikko - Motte

 

Like klw604 mentioned, they need to have fast wingers. I think Podkolzin, Hoglander, Highmore and Motte play fast, but others like Pearson, Garland and Boeser are slower in comparison.

 

Sure would be nice to get Forsberg, or a couple of fast wingers like that.

 

 

Just so you know, I heard on 650 early this morning that there is a stat site they subscribe to that clocked Brock as reaching the fastest speed during the game last night. They stipulated that it wasn’t all game, the stat just measured who reached the fastest point.

[RWJC]

2 minutes ago, grandmaster said:

Just so you know, I heard on 650 early this morning that there is a stat site they subscribe to that clocked Brock as reaching the fastest speed during the game last night. They stipulated that it wasn’t all game, the stat just measured who reached the fastest point.

You sure it wasn’t that Lames fan walking up the stairs and out?

[grandmaster]

39 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

But why would Miller, at the peak of his powers, forgo extra years and 10M+ in earnings to do the Canucks a solid? Why would a guy knowingly pass on his biggest chance ever to cash in for a team he's played on for three seasons? He doesn't have deep roots here, we're his third team, why would we get that sort of sweetheart deal from him?

 

I just don't see it.

Because he loves his team, his coach and this city. 
 

[DeNiro]

9 minutes ago, RWJC said:

You sure it wasn’t that Lames fan walking up the stairs and out?

That reminded me of the Curry look away shot.

 

Pretty sure that fan had his back turned before Petey even buried it. 
 

 

Edited February 25, 2022 by DeNiro

[mll]

8 minutes ago, HKSR said:

A 50% variance?  That still seems high... I thought I read somewhere it was a 25% variance from Year 1.  That's why Grubauer's contract was initially rejected by the NHL.

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/nhl-rejects-seattle-krakens-deal-goaltender-philipp-grubauer/story?id=79208158

 

EDIT:  Nevermind, here it is:

 

"The NHL tightened up those salary rules in the new collective bargaining agreement, which was established in the summer of 2020. Front-loaded contracts in any "immediately adjacent years" can't exceed 25% variance with the first year of that contract, and any year of the contract can't exceed 60% variance from the highest year of the deal."

 

 

Didn't cover variability in my answer - wasn't necessary as in a front loaded deal the lowest salary can't be less than half of the highest.  From the CBA:

 

Additionally, under no circumstances may the stated Player Salary and Bonuses in any League Year of a Front-Loaded SPC be less than fifty (50) percent of the highest stated Player Salary and Bonuses in a League Year of that same Front-Loaded SPC.

 

 

[Coconuts]

38 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

I still see Podz as a prospect, as well as Hogz.(developing)

yes add Klimo,  

Linus Karlsson :

 

 

Aidan Mcdonaugh, Victoria Persson, Joni Jurmo.. there are others..

it’s worth your while to find video on them from within the past year.

 

That's fair, we just see things a little different. I see Podz and Hoglander as graduates, players who'll probably never see time in the AHL. They're first and second year players, but I categorize em a bit differently. Maybe Hoglander goes down if Bruce is really unimpressed, but I'd be a little surprised.

 

I like Karlsson but I'm not sure I'd consider him a blue chip guy. He's definitely making the Dahlen trade look better with how he's played this season, he's one of the guys I'd consider interesting. Not sure he fits more than maybe a third line role sooner than later, but you never know. 

 

McDonaugh looks promising, Persson and Jurmo are probably a ways off though. Jurmo's got some great raw tools. 

 

The only prospects I really see pushing for the team next season are Lockwood, Jasek, and maybe Woo or Rathbone. I could see Lockwood or Jasek fitting into Motte's spot if he's moved or allowed to walk, or if he's simply bumped up to a third line role. Jasek was frustrated with his lack of NHL opportunity despite doing everything asked of him in Utica, he's doing quite well in Liiga. Maybe we see him get a chance under new management?

 

 

24 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

Miller just wants to win, and I believe that he think he can win here, now that the Aquas hire an experienced president and improved management and coaching. Six months ago he may have wanted out, but things have changed. 

 

There is hope. I think Miller loves playing for the Canucks and being the guy they rely on. He relishes this role. If he joined a contender, he'd be just another middle 6 forward on a strange team in an ugly city. No, I think he wants to be here and win here, he'd be a hero.  

Of course Miller wants to win, we all knows that. But it's a business and he also wants to get paid. His career could end at any time, he's got his family and future to consider too. 

 

I'm not sure things have, because I don't think he's interested in staying in Canada long term. Now, that's just my speculation, but I firmly believe he'll be heading back to the US. 

 

And no, if he joins a contender he likely won't be a middle six forward, and no there's no guarantee he'll be shipped off to an ugly city. He could end up in New York, where he was drafted, and it's New &^@#ing York. city. He could end up in Florida. He could end up in Toronto, and say what you want about the Leafs, but I wouldn't call it ugly. He could certainly do worse than Colorado or LA. Even Boston's got a charm to it. 

 

He could just as easily be a hero elsehwhere, I really don't see it. Maybe I swing a little hard the other way, but folks make it out as if he's hellbent on Vancouver despite being here not even three full seasons. He spent time in New York, he spent time in Tampa (and I don't think he was keen on leaving), dude doesn't have deep roots here. I'm sure he loved his teammates and coaches at the aforementioned stops too. 

 

I don't see us being contenders sooner than later, he's got better odds of winning elsewhere imo. 

 

3 minutes ago, grandmaster said:

Because he loves his team, his coach and this city. 
 

[Warhippy]

Look who's finally paying attention....

[Coconuts]

13 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Look who's finally paying attention....

Nice to see they aren't just going to bury their heads in coal forever 

[BPA]

Have to think NYR is all in at Trade Deadline.  Next year Zib and Fox gets massive raises.  That will affect their ability to get impact players next year.

[HKSR]

55 minutes ago, mll said:

 

Didn't cover variability in my answer - wasn't necessary as in a front loaded deal the lowest salary can't be less than half of the highest.  From the CBA:

 

Additionally, under no circumstances may the stated Player Salary and Bonuses in any League Year of a Front-Loaded SPC be less than fifty (50) percent of the highest stated Player Salary and Bonuses in a League Year of that same Front-Loaded SPC.

 

 

Wonder why they say 60%... 

[grandmaster]

I just want to remind a lot of folks that JT has said MANY times that he wants to stay. The difference with our new management is that they will listen, unlike Benning did with TT (he had no choice with Tanev and Marky).

 

All this trade deadline talk is a waste of time. They know how valuable JT is to this organization. They’ve said it many times. Only a chimpanzee would trade him if he didn’t have to. He is the most valuable player on the team next to Demko & maybe Hughes.

 

[Nucker 67]

It's funny to still see the TOR media chirping that the Leafs are interested in Miller.  They're offering?  Liljegren, Niemela or Knies. WTF? Are they kidding?  Are we that bad overvaluing our players when we suggest trade proposals? 

 

Canucks fan: We should trade Rathbone for Nugent-Hopkins because we need a good C

 

In order for any trade to work for VAN, it has to be a slap-in-the-face, knock-their-shoes-off, blow-them-away kind of offer.  Like, starting with Nylander and their 1st. 

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

It's funny to still see the TOR media chirping that the Leafs are interested in Miller.  They're offering?  Liljegren, Niemela or Knies. WTF? Are they kidding?  Are we that bad overvaluing our players when we suggest trade proposals? 

 

Canucks fan: We should trade Rathbone for Nugent-Hopkins because we need a good C

 

In order for any trade to work for VAN, it has to be a slap-in-the-face, knock-their-shoes-off, blow-them-away kind of offer.  Like, starting with Nylander and their 1st. 

F the Loser Leafs, their loser media, their loser city, and their loser fans.  

If it's Miller going to them, then it's Marner (2 million retained) coming back.  

[khay]

53 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Look who's finally paying attention....

Well, too bad for the Rangers fans, it's little too late now. At this point in the season where we are only 3 points out of a playoff spot, I don't see us trading Miller at the TDL unless we go on a losing streak. We will need to get a massive return involving Schneider and one of their young premium forwards (Kakko or Lafreniere or Othman) as well as a 1st for us to trade Miller to them at this TDL.

 

I agree with a guy like Drance in that we still need to retool to become a contender but I disagree with him that there is no point of making the playoffs just to be stomped.

 

First, making the playoffs in and of itself provides sense of achievement for the players, especially considering the start that we had. Small successes all add up and serves as a stepping stone leading to the ultimate prize.

 

Second, the team is still too good to finish in the bottom 5 even if we give up on the season now by selling Miller, Motte, Boeser, and whoever else.

 

Finally, pushing for the playoffs helps in terms of player evaluation and development of young players like Petey, Hog, Podz, and even Hughes. 

 

Summer is when we should retool. We will have more information on contract demands from Miller, Boeser, and Horvat. And potential trade partners will have better info on their cap status. For example, if NYR can't re-sign Strome, you bet they would circle back to see if they could get Miller.

 

We will also know how good Petey really is. If he keeps up his current pace till the rest of the season and helps us make the playoffs? then, he will end the season with close to 30 goals and 70 points. Then, we can confirm his status as our 1C and that will change our plans, i.e., in regards to whether we can afford to move our current 1C in Miller if his contract demands exceeds what we can afford.

 

[khay]

7 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

It's funny to still see the TOR media chirping that the Leafs are interested in Miller.  They're offering?  Liljegren, Niemela or Knies. WTF? Are they kidding?  Are we that bad overvaluing our players when we suggest trade proposals? 

 

Canucks fan: We should trade Rathbone for Nugent-Hopkins because we need a good C

 

In order for any trade to work for VAN, it has to be a slap-in-the-face, knock-their-shoes-off, blow-them-away kind of offer.  Like, starting with Nylander and their 1st. 

Even Nylander is a no-go for me as RW is not a position of weakness for us.

 

Every team and their fanbase has their version of Raymond, Ballard, and draft pick proposal to get a star player. Wouldn't waste a second of my thought with what they are suggesting.

 

We ain't trading Miller to Toronto.

 

[Coconuts]

6 minutes ago, khay said:

Well, too bad for the Rangers fans, it's little too late now. At this point in the season where we are only 3 points out of a playoff spot, I don't see us trading Miller at the TDL unless we go on a losing streak. We will need to get a massive return involving Schneider and one of their young premium forwards (Kakko or Lafreniere or Othman) as well as a 1st for us to trade Miller to them at this TDL.

 

I agree with a guy like Drance in that we still need to retool to become a contender but I disagree with him that there is no point of making the playoffs just to be stomped.

 

First, making the playoffs in and of itself provides sense of achievement for the players, especially considering the start that we had. Small successes all add up and serves as a stepping stone leading to the ultimate prize.

 

Second, the team is still too good to finish in the bottom 5 even if we give up on the season now by selling Miller, Motte, Boeser, and whoever else.

 

Finally, pushing for the playoffs helps in terms of player evaluation and development of young players like Petey, Hog, Podz, and even Hughes. 

 

Summer is when we should retool. We will have more information on contract demands from Miller, Boeser, and Horvat. And potential trade partners will have better info on their cap status. For example, if NYR can't re-sign Strome, you bet they would circle back to see if they could get Miller.

 

We will also know how good Petey really is. If he keeps up his current pace till the rest of the season and helps us make the playoffs? then, he will end the season with close to 30 goals and 70 points. Then, we can confirm his status as our 1C and that will change our plans, i.e., in regards to whether we can afford to move our current 1C in Miller if his contract demands exceeds what we can afford.

 

Five points, and LA has two games in hand. They win tonight and they're back up to seven. 

 

Three if you're looking at Edmonton, but also two games in hand. 

 

Dallas and Anaheim are right there too. 

 

They aren't going to win every game from here on out, but neither are we. 

Edited February 25, 2022 by Coconuts

[khay]

57 minutes ago, BPA said:

Have to think NYR is all in at Trade Deadline.  Next year Zib and Fox gets massive raises.  That will affect their ability to get impact players next year.

I still think we trade Miller to them @ 50% retained... but not at the TDL but in the offseason. They can't re-sign Strome will all those raises coming in and will be very happy to get Miller at 2.65 mil as Strome replacement. The Rangers will have to make a massive overpayment to get Miller at this point.

 

Trading Miller at the TDL doesn't make much sense for this team when we are in the playoff race with him signed through the next season.