[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[Ilya Mikheyev]

Just now, stawns said:

If miller were moved now, obviously there would have been a dressing room issue

i would hope so. and not a benning desperation issue

[stawns]

Just now, Teemu Selänne said:

i would hope so. and not a benning desperation issue

I doubt JB is all that desperate

[Plaguez]

8 minutes ago, Fidds said:

If wild are trading slumping wingers we should throw in one of our own. Miller, Pearson for Fiala , Greenway and a 2nd

We lose that deal. That's the return I'd expect for Miller alone and I'd still be a little disappointed. Miller is a centre, wins more draws than he loses, plays in all situations, scores, hits, he's a playoff guy.  You don't trade that for an undersized winger who can score and a 2nd. 

[Ilya Mikheyev]

5 minutes ago, PLOGUE said:

We lose that deal. That's the return I'd expect for Miller alone and I'd still be a little disappointed. Miller is a centre, wins more draws than he loses, plays in all situations, scores, hits, he's a playoff guy.  You don't trade that for an undersized winger who can score and a 2nd. 

I think Pearson basically has negative trade value until deadline during his contract year

[JM_]

11 hours ago, aGENT said:

No, I'm very much talking about people expecting and/or rooting for him to be fired.

 

There was a poll on Twitter (granted Twitter is a cesspool) last week with the options of preference for the Canucks turning it around and start winning, or they keep losing so Benning gets fired. Guess what percentage of these twit 'fans' voted for the latter...?

thats just dumb. Who cares that much about a GM?

[JM_]

9 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

Benning has a lot of pressure to fire sell someone if he wants to keep his and greens jobs. 
 

Just because there is a good market doesn’t mean we should trust Benning to get the best return for the team. He has a sketchy track record for overvaluing the wrong kind of players. 

like getting Miller?

 

most of Jim's mistakes have been meh as far as where the talent was, usually complimentary players like Guddy. Loui of course is the standout, but a lot of GMs were lined up to make that mistake, that was bizarre year for UFA mistakes.

 

But having said that, I do want to see an upgrade on JIm sooner than later. But new GMs to a team also make mistakes when cleaning house too, so its not a guarantee either that a new guy maximizes a return.

 

Miller is an easy sell who should have a lot of suitors. Unless there's some kind of collusion there will be a good return if the team goes that way.

Edited November 24, 2021 by JM_

[aGENT]

4 minutes ago, JM_ said:

thats just dumb. Who cares that much about a GM?

73% of Canuck twits apparently, when I last looked.

[JM_]

Just now, aGENT said:

73% of Canuck twits apparently, when I last looked.

probably the inverse on CDC. Medium really is the message.

[73 Percent]

4 minutes ago, aGENT said:

73% of Canuck twits apparently, when I last looked.

[mll]

40 minutes ago, Fidds said:

If wild are trading slumping wingers we should throw in one of our own. Miller, Pearson for Fiala , Greenway and a 2nd

The Wild don't have that kind of cap space.  Their buyout cap hits increase by 8M to 13M next season.  That's why both are possibly available.  Doesn't feel there's a deal to be made between the two teams. 

 

Guerin is patient.  He waited out Rutherford so he would include Addison in the Zucker trade. He backed out of the Parise trade with NYI after Lamoriello adjusted their offer.  Doubt he's going to be forced into giving more than he's willing to.  The desperate team is not Minnesota - they are top of the division despite Fiala being snake bitten.   For very long Dumba was on the trade block but Guerin never got what he wanted so he never traded him and now he's wearing the "A".  

 

Edited November 24, 2021 by mll

[aGENT]

9 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said:

I can not actively hope the Canucks lose for any reason. 
 

Winning or losing now really shouldn’t matter much though. The season is already pretty close to being lost without a miracle turnaround. What should matter is fixing what is actually broken so this team can become consistently competitive. The main thing broken and holding the team back is coaching. The main thing keeping that dynamic in place is management. 
 

I am rooting for Benning to be fired because he is a sub par GM that apparaemtly can’t see how truly awful the coaching on this team is. 

 

Bolded I agree with.

 

Problem being, the rest is all speculation. None of us know what 'the problem' is (or problems are). Maybe there's a faction of players undermining the coaching causing the 'coaching issue'? Maybe there is in fact a coaching issue? Maybe both? Maybe something else entirely? Maybe Benning is working on the coaching issue behind the scenes?

 

We have no idea. Zero.

 

But yes, whatever is ailing the team needs correcting. They're massively underperforming and he's responsible for fixing that. If he can't, that's on him. 

[aGENT]

11 minutes ago, JM_ said:

probably the inverse on CDC. Medium really is the message.

Disturbing (but unsurprising) either way. 

[wallstreetamigo]

6 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

Bolded I agree with.

 

Problem being, the rest is all speculation. None of us know what 'the problem' is (or problems are). Maybe there's a faction of players undermining the coaching causing the 'coaching issue'? Maybe there is in fact a coaching issue? Maybe both? Maybe something else entirely? Maybe Benning is working on the coaching issue behind the scenes?

 

We have no idea. Zero.

 

But yes, whatever is ailing the team needs correcting. They're massively underperforming and he's responsible for fixing that. If he can't, that's on him. 

It is very likely multiple things that are all connected. I know I have heard for years now that one of the issues going on within the Canucks is a lack of effective communication from management and coaching to players. Lots of public examples of that seeming to be true and even more whispers behind the scenes.

That can definitely create friction and a have and have not rift.
 

I have heard that some players are unhappy about Benning doing an about face to make an exception for Hamonic not having to be vaccinated to play. Almost like just another dismissal of putting their safety first which was a big issue with the players last year. I would not be surprised tbh. The players now being discussed as being “cancers” and on the trade block were pretty vocal about how the team handled the COVID thing last year. I wouldn’t blame a single player for being pissed off about it. Some had family and their kids get COVID as a result of avoidable negligence by management and coaching. If they feel that is happening again who could blame them for being pissed off?

 

I don’t think the problems are all hockey related or coaching related even. I do think it’s permeated the culture now though and that puts management and coaching at the heart of it. 

 

 

 

 

 

[JM_]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

Disturbing (but unsurprising) either way. 

I'm not a big believer in the whole 'toxic positivity' thing. I don't think there are many Benning cheerleaders, just some people that maybe see his time here as a mixed bag or like some of the more recent moves. I don't think that effects anyone as much as the negativity driver twitter is.

Edited November 24, 2021 by JM_

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, wallstreetamigo said:

It is very likely multiple things that are all connected. I know I have heard for years now that one of the issues going on within the Canucks is a lack of effective communication from management and coaching to players. Lots of public examples of that seeming to be true and even more whispers behind the scenes.

That can definitely create friction and a have and have not rift.
 

I have heard that some players are unhappy about Benning doing an about face to make an exception for Hamonic not having to be vaccinated to play. Almost like just another dismissal of putting their safety first which was a big issue with the players last year. I would not be surprised tbh. The players now being discussed as being “cancers” and on the trade block were pretty vocal about how the team handled the COVID thing last year. I wouldn’t blame a single player for being pissed off about it. Some had family and their kids get COVID as a result of avoidable negligence by management and coaching. If they feel that is happening again who could blame them for being pissed off?

 

I don’t think the problems are all hockey related or coaching related even. I do think it’s permeated the culture now though and that puts management and coaching at the heart of it. 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah... I'm not interested in hearsay, conjecture and hyperbole.

 

Again, none of us are in the room, none of us knows what the 'problem(s)' is.

 

What we can agree on, is that it's Benning's job to fix it. And if he can't, whatever 'it' is, it won't be his job for long.

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, Teemu Selänne said:

i would hope so. and not a benning desperation issue

People need to think more critically about this situation and stop falling in to hyperbolic narratives.

 

Benning is not on an island and able to unilaterally make a bad or 'desperate trade'.

 

15 hours ago, aGENT said:

I doubt Benning has carte blanche to make any moves he wants (if he ever truly did). Particularly with such a big/key piece. Any deal he brings to the management group and ownership will be discussed and debated before anything is approved (as it likely always has). He's not simply going to be allowed to make a 'bad, desperate trade' on his own (nor do I think that's particularly in his makeup anyway).

 

 

 

 

 

[RakuRaku]

17 hours ago, mll said:

The Wild are looking for a C.  If they wanted a winger they would just try and make it work with Fiala. He's a better fit than Boeser - significantly more speed, likely cheaper and can drive a line.  He is snake bitten and playing with marginal players.  His line for the next game is Gaudreau who at 28 only has 120 NHL games and has never been a lineup regular before joining the Wild this season and Rem Pitlick picked off waivers.  Imagine how Boeser would do playing with them. 

 

They are also not looking to move their 1st as they are still in a rebuild.  They are talking to plenty of other teams on Fiala - not just Vancouver.  

 

The Canucks don't need Kulikov.  He's a 3rd pairing D that needs to be sheltered.

 

Ya true.... they are actually interested in Miller.... 

 

We kinda do need a good LHD in Kulikov for our 3rd pairing!!!! He's a huge upgrade over Burroughs! It was very stupid of JB to think we could just round out our defense with AHLers and fringe players like Hunt/Schenn/Burroughs.... Rathbone will be our future stud D-man but for now he needs time in Abby... 

 

As for Fiala... I can care less if we get him or Hartman... we need a power forward who can bang and score! Greenway is another big body that we sorely lack!!

[kanucks25]

1 hour ago, JM_ said:

Loui of course is the standout, but a lot of GMs were lined up to make that mistake, that was bizarre year for UFA mistakes.

Honestly it should be a suspendable offense on this forum to suggest X mistake was okay because somebody else might/would have done the same.

 

12 hours ago, aGENT said:

No, I'm very much talking about people expecting and/or rooting for him to be fired.

 

There was a poll on Twitter (granted Twitter is a cesspool) last week with the options of preference for the Canucks turning it around and start winning, or they keep losing so Benning gets fired. Guess what percentage of these twit 'fans' voted for the latter...?

Because winning a few games here or there, hovering around .500, and treading water like we have been for most of Benning's tenure does nothing for this franchise, it doesn't push us forward, it doesn't fix anything. Unless you think it's actually realistic that this team has it in them to turn it around right now and end up going in on a SCF run.

 

The idea is: more losing = more pressure on ownership to make changes = good

 

That said, probably not good for the core players to go through more losing, I imagine they are beyond sick of it.

[JM_]

1 minute ago, kanucks25 said:

Honestly it should be a suspendable offense on this forum to suggest X mistake was okay because somebody else might/would have done the same.

 ok. 

 

Multiple GMs thinking a player was good is relevant in UFA season, if you like it or not. 

[Wolfgang Durst]

3 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

Honestly it should be a suspendable offense on this forum to suggest X mistake was okay because somebody else might/would have done the same.

 

Because winning a few games here or there, hovering around .500, and treading water like we have been for most of Benning's tenure does nothing for this franchise, it doesn't push us forward, it doesn't fix anything. Unless you think it's actually realistic that this team has it in them to turn it around right now and end up going in on a SCF run.

 

The idea is: more losing = more pressure on ownership to make changes = good

 

That said, probably not good for the core players to go through more losing, I imagine they are beyond sick of it.

the record and the way this team has been playing this season should be enough for ownership to make changes right now. I mean look at the performance of this team last season before 15+ players got infected with COVID. This team was way out of the playoff spots and before COVID hit this team hard they had zero chance to make the playoffs. In my point of view changes should have been made at the end of last season.

I guess Aquillini has been working 24/7 to manage his business and had no time to sit together with Jim to analyze the season in depth. I read an report from Ben Kuzma at the end of last season covering the lack of ambition within the Canucks organization.

For me it's very clear.

Jim Benning as a GM is responsible for

1. establishing the culture within the entire org to win hockey games

2. selecting and evaluating the coaching staff

3. building this team through the draft and through trades and contract extensions.

 

For the fan with only average hockey knowledge it's obvious that this franchise lacks the kind of culture a team needs to be successful and that this team is poorly coached. Look at the stats for special teams. As Craig Button mentioned in a zoom call with Dhaliwal "you've got to find solutions". Green with this constant shuffling of lines and the PP and PK woes that are still not resolved after 19 games indicate that this team needs change.

Change of culture  + change of coaching staff are inevitable.