[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[JM_]

40 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Oh I have no problem moving Rathbone for value. I struggle to see where he fits unless he or Hughes switch sides.

 

But Garland is arguably worth more than Marino and Kapanen isn't exactly soaring in value right now either. He's struggled this season and has had consistency issues. Maybe if we're also getting Poulin back or a pick or something but otherwise, it feels like too much value going out.

it might be, but it also feels like a Ratherford kind of move. At the end of the day tho it does make us better on the right side, and might even help to make Myers more movable. 

[Canucks Curse]

a third pair of rathbone and schenn seems ideal to me, schenn mentored hughes and needs too play the same role with jack, good defensively, physically supportive and deters other teams players. need to get a 2nd pair RHD, Myers had a lull of about 10 games during that homestead that tanked our season and before and after I actually think he has been close to full value for 6 mill a year., at 5 mill he would be a steal.

[J-P]

1 hour ago, Canucks Curse said:

I think Marimno would excel playing with Hughes and being coached by Shaw, he also logs a lot of OK min, as does kapanen, Kapanen also has speed and can play up and down line up but offensively more of a 3W than a 2W, sort of like Pearson but faster and better on PK

Kapanen is a bit inconsistent which is also the biggest knock against him. For whatever reason he doesn't seem to be a good fit in PIT. When he's on his his game, he's definitely at least a 2nd liner, but yes when he's not I guess a 3rd liner.

 

He's not very physical, although bigger than you might think, but very fast, skilled and aggressive. Feels like a good fit as middle six forward with us..

[J-P]

2 hours ago, Canucks Curse said:

Boeser is the best player in the trade

Boeser is a scorer, but not a good enough one to be the best player in this trade proposal (unless you value scoring as the defining attribute and think Boeser will return to at least 30-35 goals a season). I'd argue that apart from shooting Kapanen is way better at everything else vs Boeser.

 

Marino imo is still a bit of an unknown even though he turns 25 next month, might be very valuable, might be replacement level in a few years. I don't hate the idea of trading for him but with a cap hit of 4m+ I would prefer somebody more proven.

Edited April 17, 2022 by J-P

[higgyfan]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

Oh I have no problem moving Rathbone for value. I struggle to see where he fits unless he or Hughes switch sides.

 

But Garland is arguably worth more than Marino and Kapanen isn't exactly soaring in value right now either. He's struggled this season and has had consistency issues. Maybe if we're also getting Poulin back or a pick or something but otherwise, it feels like too much value going out.

I remember the original rumour was Boeser for Marino + Rodrigues.  I really liked that one, as

Rodrigues is the perfect 3C-r, but alas, he is an upcoming UFA now.  Maybe they would add

Blueger instead.  Not really a big fan of Kapanen.

[aGENT]

1 minute ago, higgyfan said:

I remember the original rumour was Boeser for Marino + Rodrigues.  I really liked that one, as

Rodrigues is the perfect 3C-r, but alas, he is an upcoming UFA now.  Maybe they would add

Blueger instead.  Not really a big fan of Kapanen.

I think Kapanen could be a solid middle 6 guy and brings the speed and PK abilities we'd be looking for. But he's very much an add on and not the main return. He might even pair very well with Horvat or Pettersson as well.

 

Marino I think could pair very well with either Hughes or OEL though.

[Alflives]

8 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I think Kapanen could be a solid middle 6 guy and brings the speed and PK abilities we'd be looking for. But he's very much an add on and not the main return. He might even pair very well with Horvat or Pettersson as well.

 

Marino I think could pair very well with either Hughes or OEL though.

Boeser + Dermott for Marino + Kapanen?

would that be a fair deal?  

[aGENT]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

Boeser + Dermott for Marino + Kapanen?

would that be a fair deal?  

I doubt we're moving Boeser personally. With his season and contract issues, we'd be selling low and wouldn't get the value IMO.

 

Garland + Poolman would be nice but depending on Poolman's health, that's probably not enough value for PIT.

[Nucker 67]

4 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I doubt we're moving Boeser personally. With his season and contract issues, we'd be selling low and wouldn't get the value IMO.

 

Garland + Poolman would be nice but depending on Poolman's health, that's probably not enough value for PIT.

I've got that feeling too. Boeser might be difficult to move, so they could roll the dice and see if he rebounds. He's still youngish and could still be a 25-30 goal scorer.  I think Boeser takes less than $7.5 too. 

 

 

[Coconuts]

4 hours ago, Canucks Curse said:

JT will cash in with us this offseason

we sing a nick Paul type and deslauriers and we are a playoff team and I think with a bit of luck, go to 2nd round, then its up to Petey, Millsey and bo, hughes and demmer

 

only major trade:

 

To PIT

Brock Boeser

Jason Dickinson

 

To VAN

Marino

Kapanen - JR/PA will low ball him like 3.75x 3 yrs

2023rd 2nd

 

Podz Miller Petey

Pearson Bo Garland

Kapanen Paul Hogz

Deslauriers Lammi Hiughmore/Lockwood

 

OEL Myers

Hughes Marino

Rathbone Schenn

 

Demko

Martin

 

That Boeser trade looks incredibly optimistic considering Dickinson is likely viewed as negative value after the season he's had, and considering Boeser's likely a player teams are looking at as a buy low candidate. 

[mll]

2 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I doubt we're moving Boeser personally. With his season and contract issues, we'd be selling low and wouldn't get the value IMO.

 

Garland + Poolman would be nice but depending on Poolman's health, that's probably not enough value for PIT.

 

Garland not really a gifted goal scorer - Boeser more likely to capitalise on the Crosby/Malkin's setups.  Boeser hasn't had the best of seasons but it's not like the team did till under Boudreau.  Instead of signing long term they could try a 1-year show me deal and then go from there - he'll still be RFA next season.  Vancouver would need to let them talk to his camp.

 

[aGENT]

1 minute ago, mll said:

 

Garland not really a gifted goal scorer - Boeser more likely to capitalise on the Crosby/Malkin's setups.  Boeser hasn't had the best of seasons but it's not like the team did till under Boudreau.  Instead of signing long term they could try a 1-year show me deal and then go from there - he'll still be RFA next season.  Vancouver would need to let them talk to his camp.

 

Well here's hoping!

[Baggins]

4 hours ago, -DLC- said:

Thanks. 

 

A lot of people have a "what have you done for us lately?" mindset except they don't actually factor in what they've done lately. They go back to the start of the season and stay stuck there.

This is the problem. I see many wanting wholesale trades for futures because "who wants to be a fringe playoff team". But if you look at the league standing from Dec 5th on, when Bouda took over, we have the best win percentage in the Pacific division and 8th overall in the league. Also look at our goals against versus the best in the league, in that time frame since Bouda took over. At 50 games under Bouda you can't credit it to just a new coach bump either. This team simply isn't as bad as many want to believe. 

 

[SilentSam]

Wow!  A whole page where we aren’t talking about Miller getting traded ( in the Miller trade Thread) .

Seems like some of you are coming back down to Earth ,.  Welcome back !

 

[Nucker 67]

Where would the Canucks be if they never traded the 1sts in 2020 and 2021?

 

LE, Roussel, Beagle contracts would all be coming to an end, $12 million off the books. 

 

Be nice to have Barron and Guenther + in the system, and a lot of cap to play with. Sure, the Canucks would've been a non-playoff team and near the bottom, but that's exactly what they are now, with nothing in the prospect pool.  

 

Miller, OEL and Garland have been real good, but who knows where this team would be today if Benning had more patience.

 

 

 

 

[aGENT]

6 hours ago, Baggins said:

This is the problem. I see many wanting wholesale trades for futures because "who wants to be a fringe playoff team". But if you look at the league standing from Dec 5th on, when Bouda took over, we have the best win percentage in the Pacific division and 8th overall in the league. Also look at our goals against versus the best in the league, in that time frame since Bouda took over. At 50 games under Bouda you can't credit it to just a new coach bump either. This team simply isn't as bad as many want to believe. 

 

The teams play has been admirable under Bruce.

 

However, we're still overly reliant on Demko, lack speed and grit throughout the lineup, have a dog's breakfast for a right side D core, and no succession plan for the players currently playing top 4 there, who expire next season and the one after. We also lack a 3C/players more capable on the PK. Along with little cap flexibility to address any of that.

 

It's great, that Bruce helped get the boys to play at "eleven" most of the time since he's arrived and get them back in the (bubble) playoff picture where a lot of us assumed they'd be (a bubble playoff team) in the first place. But it doesn't change any of those issues.

 

This team isn't good enough (to be a legit contender), has major structural and succession issues, and none of those things are getting fixed with mild tinkering around the edges. Truly better than their early record or not.

Edited April 18, 2022 by aGENT

[Baggins]

4 hours ago, aGENT said:

The teams play has been admirable under Bruce.

 

However, we're still overly reliant on Demko, lack speed and grit throughout the lineup, have a dog's breakfast for a right side D core, and no succession plan for the players currently playing top 4 there, who expire next season and the one after. We also lack a 3C/players more capable on the PK. Along with little cap flexibility to address any of that.

 

It's great, that Bruce helped get the boys to play at "eleven" most of the time since he's arrived and get them back in the (bubble) playoff picture where a lot of us assumed they'd be (a bubble playoff team) in the first place. But it doesn't change any of those issues.

 

This team isn't good enough (to be a legit contender), has major structural and succession issues, and none of those things are getting fixed with mild tinkering around the edges. Truly better than their early record or not.

I'm not saying there isn't room for improvement. All I'm syaing is we don't need the wholesale trades for futures many are suggesting. That just guaranttess another 3 to 5 years of waiting for the playoffs. That's not to say I'm opposed to trades either. But trades at this point should address weaknesses now rather than just looking to futures and crossing our fingers.

 

As to the bold part, you're right. But what you, and many others, tend to ignore is that step between building and contending. Which is making the playoffs. Teams don't jump straight to contender from building. It doesn't matter that we're not a contender now. That's what we're building towards. The first step - make the playoffs and continue to build. This team isn't nearly as bad as some make it out to be. It's time to build, not rebuild.

[aGENT]

8 minutes ago, Baggins said:

I'm not saying there isn't room for improvement. All I'm syaing is we don't need the wholesale trades for futures many are suggesting. That just guaranttess another 3 to 5 years of waiting for the playoffs. That's not to say I'm opposed to trades either. But trades at this point should address weaknesses now rather than just looking to futures and crossing our fingers.

 

As to the bold part, you're right. But what you, and many others, tend to ignore is that step between building and contending. Which is making the playoffs. Teams don't jump straight to contender from building. It doesn't matter that we're not a contender now. That's what we're building towards. The first step - make the playoffs and continue to build. This team isn't nearly as bad as some make it out to be. It's time to build, not rebuild.

Yeah, I'm nowhere near a rebuild bandwagon. Moves for pure, years away futures at this point is silly, agreed. (Though there could be a few as parts of bigger deals).

 

And none of the comments made by new management seem to suggest that as their game plan, so I don't think either of us have to worry

 

But this team does need some fairly serious surgery in the areas I noted. Those aren't going to be small moves and tinkering around the margins. There's big changes coming to become that contender we're building towards.

[Baggins]

Just now, aGENT said:

Yeah, I'm nowhere near a rebuild bandwagon. Moves for pure, years away futures at this point is silly, agreed. (Though there could be a few as parts of bigger deals).

 

And none of the comments made by new management seem to suggest that as their game plan, so I don't think either of us have to worry

 

But this team does need some fairly serious surgery in the areas I noted. Those aren't going to be small moves and tinkering around the margins. There's big changes coming to become that contender we're building towards.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not opposed to picks or prospects being part of a deal. But the main pioece in a trade should be to improve the team now.

[aGENT]

12 minutes ago, Baggins said:

Don't get me wrong, I'm not opposed to picks or prospects being part of a deal. But the main pioece in a trade should be to improve the team now.

I'm ok with "near future". They should be able to contribute to the team now, if potentially at a slight downgrade to the team in the present from the players moved out.

 

But in a couple years and beyond (when our contention window hopefully opens) if by their own development, fit, and/or the cap they free up, we should be a better team.