[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[JM_]

2 hours ago, stawns said:

  Hughes, OEL and Byram on the left side would be unreal

It would. We'd be looking for just stay at home d for the right side, which isn't the worst idea. 

[rekker]

22 minutes ago, aGENT said:

As usual, nothing is that black and white. What if we turn around and use some of those futures to nab guys like Roy or Hague from Vegas?

 

More than one way to skin a cat...

I would love to see the Canucks offer sheet Hague. It may well be in the cards.

[NucknAsia]

49 minutes ago, aGENT said:

As usual, nothing is that black and white. What if we turn around and use some of those futures to nab guys like Roy or Hague from Vegas?

 

More than one way to skin a cat...

Sure but rolling dice hoping to create another trade is not a good strategy. You want certainty back when you are trading massive value not maybes. Miller is arguably the top power forward in the game, a center, great in the circle and a great leader, certainty back matters.

[NucknAsia]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Every team has a draft board.  OJ was pretty much a top 10 pick on every board.  Bob Mackenzie's final rankings had him at 6.  Just because he turned into a bust doesn't mean he should have been ranked lower.  Injuries screwed up his career.  Same with alot of other players.  Nolan Patrick is another great example.  The Flyers took him over Heiskanen, Petey and Makar.

Hindsight, yes is easy. But as someone who watched alot of OHL games that year, OJ was not a 'sure thing" top 10 pick. None of the D were but as I said in another post, both Sergachev and Chychrun screamed NHL calibre defenseman.

 

What is clear is JB put way too much emphasis on Juoelvi's WJC where he dominated with the big 2 on Finland. Pulijarvi and Laine. He looked magical....but that's a short tournament, they caught lightening in a bottle and JB clearly did not assess the others in the OHL well enough.

 

As I said above

 

Both Sergachev and Chychrun (in Junior):

 

Better skaters

Better mobility

Man frames and size

Aggressive and physical

pretty much the same point totals as OJ on weaker teams...pretty close in terms of numbers. All of that should have screamed to the Canucks one of these two (particularly the size, aggression physicality, given we lacked it and still do).

 

They were common sense better selections for our team. JB even said at the draft that OJ needed to gain strength...so he was not ready. And that shouldn't have been the priority but we also now have seen OJ is not very mobile, he doesn't pivot well and gets beat to the outside alot...that issue ALONE should have been a concern to the scouts. This was not something new, it happened alot in junior, it's why I was angry when we selected him over the other 2.

 

It was an awful pick, not because of Tkachuk, because there were 2 MUCH better dmen in the same league that were available. It's not hindsight, anyone who watched them as a casual fan (in junior as I did) would have seen it.

 

Many, including the media got wowed by OJ's WJC performance, and saw that as him being able to dominate best on best, which to them separated him. And it was wrong.

Edited May 31, 2022 by NucknAsia

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, rekker said:

I get the draft board, but consensus means nothng to me. I just never saw it in OJ, and a previous poster eluded to it as well. I just can't defend the pick. Any draft analyst will tell you it's tricky picking a dman so high in the draft. Most D picked that high show more. Injuries? Meh, even when healthy OJ looked like he was always about to cough up a flem ball. He will be playing in Europe soon enough. 

Juolevi had a great tournament at the World Juniors.  He was one of the best defencemen at that tournament.  9 points in 7 games.  I watched some of his games in junior.  He was steady as a rock and played on the first pairing when they won the Memorial Cup.  He had 14 points in 18 games in the playoffs that year.  He was a consensus top 10 pick pretty much his entire draft year.  He was even playing well after his first injury in Utica with 13 points in his first 18 games as a 20 year old before he got injured again.  That knee injury really screwed him up.  Nolan Patrick is going through the same thing.  He was the consensus #2 pick in 2017 but injuries have derailed his career.  

[Elias Pettersson]

4 minutes ago, NucknAsia said:

Hindsight, yes is easy. But as someone who watched alot of OHL games that year, OJ was not a 'sure thing" top 10 pick. None of the D were but as I said in another post, both Sergachev and Chychrun screamed NHL calibre defenseman.

 

What is clear is JB put way too much emphasis on Juoelvi's WJC where he dominated with the big 2 on Finland. Pulijarvi and Laine. He looked magical....but that's a short tournament, they caught lightening in a bottle and JB clearly did not assess the others in the OHL well enough.

 

As I said above

 

Both Sergachev and Chychrun:

 

Better skaters

Better mobility

Man frames and size

Aggressive and physical

pretty much the same point totals as OJ on weaker teams...pretty close in terms of numbers.

 

They were common sense better selections for our team. JB even said at the draft that OJ needed to gain strength...so he was not ready. And that shouldn't have been the priority but we also now have seen OJ is not very mobile, he doesn't pivot well and gets beat to the outside alot...that issue ALONE should have been a concern to the scouts. This was not something new, it happened alot in junior, it's why I was angry when we selected him over the other 2.

 

It was an awful pick, not because of Tkachuk, because there were 2 MUCH better dmen in the same league that were available. It's not hindsight, anyone who watched them as a casual fan (in junior as I did) would have seen it.

 

Many, including the media got wowed by OJ's WJC performance, and saw that as him being able to dominate best on best, which to them separated him. And it was wrong.

Juolevi had 13 points in 18 games as a 20 year old in the AHL.  The Canucks were even thinking about calling him up.  His knee injury screwed him up.  In junior he was very steady, he wasn't dynamite like a Hughes but very steady.  Chychrun's stock fell hard after Christmas.  He fell right out of the top 10.  Sergachev was probably my first choice that year.  He was very physical in junior and also was a great skater.  I personally would have taken him over Juolevi but again hindsight is 20/20...

[NucknAsia]

12 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Juolevi had 13 points in 18 games as a 20 year old in the AHL.  The Canucks were even thinking about calling him up.  His knee injury screwed him up.  In junior he was very steady, he wasn't dynamite like a Hughes but very steady.  Chychrun's stock fell hard after Christmas.  He fell right out of the top 10.  Sergachev was probably my first choice that year.  He was very physical in junior and also was a great skater.  I personally would have taken him over Juolevi but again hindsight is 20/20...

I spent 2 years in London Ontario doing my masters and saw about 45  London games over that period (including games against Sergachev and Chychrun)....

 

OJ was a solid junior player no one said otherwise....however, he was not exceptional, and certainly not worthy of 5th overall at that time. Again, I was angry when they picked him, not apathetic, angry because I knew he was not better than those 2.

 

He was playing on a typical powerhouse London Knights team that included Marner, Tkachuk, and Dvorak who had over 100 pts each in their draft years. The team went 50 and 15 or something like that...they were stacked, it masked his errors, but they were evident. His issue of getting beat outside was there in junior and his lack of mobility and footspeed. I am sure his injuries exacerbated his deficiencies, which makes things worse since you're playing at a higher level where players are even faster, but to be clear, his issues where there in junior. He was a fluid but average speed in terms of skating, and excellent at making a first pass. When you're on a team like that you're not defending much, you're usually on offense....

 

What he did in his D+1 year has no bearing, most players have solid D+1 years, particularly if they are WJC caliber. What matters is, what were his flaws and why did we draft him over players without those flaws, and who played much more physical games and were bigger. It made no sense.

That was a big miss. And a bad one. As I said

Edited May 31, 2022 by NucknAsia

[Alflives]

7 minutes ago, NucknAsia said:

I spent 2 years in London Ontario doing my masters and saw about 45  London games over that period (including games against Sergachev and Chychrun)....

 

OJ was a solid junior player no one said otherwise....however, he was not exceptional, and certainly not worthy of 5th overall at that time. Again, I was angry when they picked him, not apathetic, angry because I knew he was not better than those 2.

 

He was playing on a typical powerhouse London Knights team that included Marner, Tkachuk, and Dvorak who had over 100 pts each in their draft years. The team went 50 and 15 or something like that...they were stacked, it masked his errors, but they were evident. His issue of getting beat outside was there in junior and his lack of mobility and footspeed. I am sure his injuries exacerbated his deficiencies, which makes things worse since you're playing at a higher level where players are even faster, but to be clear, his issues where there in junior. He was a fluid but average speed in terms of skating, and excellent at making a first pass. When you're on a team like that you're not defending much, you're usually on offense....

 

What he did in his D+1 year has no bearing, most players have solid D+1 years, particularly if they are WJC caliber. What matters is, what were his flaws and why did we draft him over players without those flaws, and who played much more physical games and were bigger. It made no sense.

That was a big miss. And a bad one. As I said

Hasn't there been a rumor that Benning went to view OJ during the WJC's and decided that was his guy and overruled any scouts that saw otherwise?  

[NucknAsia]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

Hasn't there been a rumor that Benning went to view OJ during the WJC's and decided that was his guy and overruled any scouts that saw otherwise?  

Someone posted that Benning made the pick on his WJC performance yes. I'm not sure, as I haven't seen that anywhere else but could be correct. Anyways not sure how we got onto OJ in this thread! Should be back to Miller time!

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, NucknAsia said:

Someone posted that Benning made the pick on his WJC performance yes. I'm not sure, as I haven't seen that anywhere else but could be correct. Anyways not sure how we got onto OJ in this thread! Should be back to Miller time!

Miller to Pit for Marino, Kapanen.

[Herberts Vasiljevs]

Remember when Linden would say that Juolevi would be a staple on our top pair for 15+ years? 

[rekker]

5 minutes ago, Herberts Vasiljevs said:

Remember when Linden would say that Juolevi would be a staple on our top pair for 15+ years? 

 

[Mustard Tiger]

4 hours ago, Alflives said:

Seth Jones is younger and a right shot D.  He's not a comparable to Miller.

The simpleton strikes again!

 

Imagine a world where you didn't need to write 10000 word essays just so Alf can understand the concept 

[NucknAsia]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Miller to Pit for Marino, Kapanen.

Plus their first...and yes

[NucknAsia]

40 minutes ago, Mustard Tiger said:

The simpleton strikes again!

 

Imagine a world where you didn't need to write 10000 word essays just so Alf can understand the concept 

what about his point is wrong? Jones when traded was 26, had 2 years left at 5.4 mil and is a right shot D, heavily in demand. the age difference is material, and ok you can say a Center vs a RD are a wash....

 

rather than insult, perhaps explain your view

[aGENT]

2 hours ago, NucknAsia said:

Sure but rolling dice hoping to create another trade is not a good strategy. You want certainty back when you are trading massive value not maybes. Miller is arguably the top power forward in the game, a center, great in the circle and a great leader, certainty back matters.

Easy enough to accomplish. You simply get a Miller trade done while simultaneously agreeing to the other trade with the trade assets. You just don't send one in, without the other.

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, Herberts Vasiljevs said:

Remember when Linden would say that Juolevi would be a staple on our top pair for 15+ years? 

To be fair, the kid has all the tools. Beyond the injury issues, what he really seems to lack is the drive required to make it and stay at this level. He just doesn't seem interested in doing the work. Which is extremely unfortunate.

Edited June 1, 2022 by aGENT

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Miller to Pit for Marino, Kapanen.

You spell Boqvist and Poulin weird.

 

If we can send them back one of Dickenson. Poolman or Myers...then yes to Kapanen.

 

Miller, Myers ($1m retained) for Marino, Kapanen, Blomqvist, Poulin and their 1st.

[Mustard Tiger]

1 hour ago, NucknAsia said:

what about his point is wrong? Jones when traded was 26, had 2 years left at 5.4 mil and is a right shot D, heavily in demand. the age difference is material, and ok you can say a Center vs a RD are a wash....

 

rather than insult, perhaps explain your view

A player was traded with 1 year left does infact happen. That is what my response was to claims that they don't. One of the most recent examples of a senerio we could expect could be the way Jones deal came about. 

 

Mr.alfs claim was for the reasons you repeated. That has nothing to do with what I said. 

 

This is a daily cycle with some, Hence simpleton

[N4ZZY]

On 5/30/2022 at 9:32 AM, Marv-the-wet-bandit said:

I don’t think we would have to add to get Clarke for Miller, if the Canucks offered that to LA I assume they jump on it as a 1 for 1 deal. I just don’t see Clarke being 1 of 3 or 4 pieces in a trade. If we could potentially get Grans/Faber and Turcotte in the deal with a pick I prefer going that route and LA could deem that as being too much. We will just have to wait and see 

Turcotte looks like he might be a bust. 

 

I’d be interested in Grans more than Faber. Could you imagine if we could get both Grans and Faber??