[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, grandmaster said:

Last I checked our “results” were near the top when BB took over. 

JR said we aren’t good enough.  He said Demko was why we won 50% of our games.  He said he’s going to make the hard choices fans will not like.  He said we cheat to get offence.  He said we have bad positioning.  He said our practice habits are bad.  Then he said we have a core three.  IMHAO JR is going to make many changes to our club over the next two years.  It will start this summer.  From our top minute guys I see this:

One of Miller of Bo is traded

One of Boeser or Garland is traded

One of Myers or OEL is traded.

 

The Pearson, Dickinson, Poolman guys are always interchangeable parts.  Really makes little difference other than with having cap space.  

 

[Alflives]

50 minutes ago, Herberts Vasiljevs said:

Doesn't have to be via the Miller trade though. Can be done by, for example, signing Kuzmenko or another free agent, or making another trade.

 

If trading Miller enables us to finally draft that top-flight RD, then I'm all for it. We can upgrade the rest of our team via other routes. 

And how many years will it take that newly drafted (let’s say we are lucky and get one this draft) Right Shot D to develop into an important contributor to our club?  Likely 3-5 years, right?  No matter what JR does it looks like we are either all in now (extending Miller and Bo) and hope for a magical run in one of the next four years on the back of Demko, or we step back for three to five years until the young assets we trade for now (using Miller, Garland, etc) are important contributors.  

I know JR said no steps back.  But we didn’t make the playoffs this year, so what exactly is a step back?  

[grandmaster]

3 minutes ago, Alflives said:

JR said we aren’t good enough.  He said Demko was why we won 50% of our games.  He said he’s going to make the hard choices fans will not like.  He said we cheat to get offence.  He said we have bad positioning.  He said our practice habits are bad.  Then he said we have a core three.  IMHAO JR is going to make many changes to our club over the next two years.  It will start this summer.  From our top minute guys I see this:

One of Miller of Bo is traded

One of Boeser or Garland is traded

One of Myers or OEL is traded.

 

The Pearson, Dickinson, Poolman guys are always interchangeable parts.  Really makes little difference other than with having cap space.  

 

You can’t deny the winning record and improvement on special teams once we got a proper coach.

 

Management was forced to keep him another year. He is not their choice. It was done solely because of how well the team played when he took over.

They don’t want to give too much credit because like all new regimes, they itch to put their stamp on things.

 

As things are right now, we ARE a good team. Are we open to improvements? Sure. Just don’t get rid of the guys who put this team on their backs.

[-DLC-]

3 hours ago, NucknAsia said:

And no, objectivity is factual

 

Subjectivity is opinion

 

Fans need to start being objective and looking at facts not feelings

Fact: Petey was off 

Fact: Bo was hurt

Fact: We sucked up until Bruce took over

Fact: After Bruce took over, there was a massive turnaround

Fact: We fared pretty well in the bubble playoffs

Fact: We have Podz looking pretty sharp in the line up

Fact: We've beat top teams and it's an indicator that we can

 

It is a feeling that some have that we will instantly upgrade according to their plan. It's not a fact until it's proven.

[Hairy Kneel]

26 minutes ago, grandmaster said:

You can’t deny the winning record and improvement on special teams once we got a proper coach.

 

Management was forced to keep him another year. He is not their choice. It was done solely because of how well the team played when he took over.

They don’t want to give too much credit because like all new regimes, they itch to put their stamp on things.

 

As things are right now, we ARE a good team. Are we open to improvements? Sure. Just don’t get rid of the guys who put this team on their backs.

Team was absolutely night and day when B took over.

Let him run with a full season.  We're on a run why ruin it by micro managing it. 

Go get a RHD and a tough 4th line.

[billabong]

With backstrom career on life support, gotta think Washington has just entered the Miller sweepstakes

[Alflives]

10 minutes ago, billabong said:

With backstrom career on life support, gotta think Washington has just entered the Miller sweepstakes

Excellent!  What have the got we want and desire?  

[grandmaster]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

Excellent!  What have the got we want and desire?  

Sure. OV and a first or nothing!

[AC Readership]

34 minutes ago, Alflives said:

JR said we aren’t good enough.  He said Demko was why we won 50% of our games.  He said he’s going to make the hard choices fans will not like.  He said we cheat to get offence.  He said we have bad positioning.  He said our practice habits are bad.  Then he said we have a core three.  IMHAO JR is going to make many changes to our club over the next two years.  It will start this summer.  From our top minute guys I see this:

One of Miller of Bo is traded

One of Boeser or Garland is traded

One of Myers or OEL is traded.

 

The Pearson, Dickinson, Poolman guys are always interchangeable parts.  Really makes little difference other than with having cap space. 

The team needs a shakeup big time. Most of those things were due to bad coaching, but the bad practice habits are shots at the team leadership and previous coaches to an extent.

 

I'm hoping JR & PA will burn it all down and build around the Core 3/4.

 

Both - 1 at the draft/offseason & other at the 23 trade deadine

Both - 1 during the offseason & other at the 23 trade deadine

Myers

 

That OEL contract is going to be an albatross for years to come.

 

I'm excited for the changes that will be coming over the next few years and I think fans will be shocked by some moves.

[Alflives]

33 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

Fact: Petey was off 

Fact: Bo was hurt

Fact: We sucked up until Bruce took over

Fact: After Bruce took over, there was a massive turnaround

Fact: We fared pretty well in the bubble playoffs

Fact: We have Podz looking pretty sharp in the line up

Fact: We've beat top teams and it's an indicator that we can

 

It is a feeling that some have that we will instantly upgrade according to their plan. It's not a fact until it's proven.

I see two scenarios.  We go all in now and for the next four years - Miller’s best years and Demko’s excellent contract.  Or we trade Miller which almost certainly means a step back.  And how many years does that step back consume until we leap ahead from depends on the return of picks, prospects, and guys already developed, and good fortune.  

But I keep coming back to JR’s own words and how he’s said (on several occasions) we aren’t good enough, and ?Demko is why we win half our games.  

So, deferring to JR’s experience (and the talented people he’s hired around him) I’m thinking he’s taking us back a step or two. 

 

Which players, then, will be in their primes (and contributing most to winning) when we leap ahead?

JR has already answered that for us: Demko, Hughes, Petey.  I’d say Pods is for sure in that group (for now) too.  

Which players will be past their best years in 3-5?  Miller, Bo, OEL, Myers.  Now there’s little chance we can trade both Miller and Bo and survive falling into a total, bottom diving rebuild.  So which one goes?  I say Miller.  OEL is nearly impossible to move unless we take back an equally crappy contract, like Anderson from the Habs.  No thanks; that’s worse.  So OEL stays.  Myers could fetch a very handsome return at the 2023 TDL, so he’s staying until then.  Who else from our top minute guys will go then?  Boeser or Garland will be out this summer.

So out this summer will be (drumb roll) 

Miller, Garland 

2023 will be Myers.

Now are those trades bringing in 23-27 year old fully developed guys to help now?  I think that’s what our owner wants, so we take a small step back, but still give fans hope for success now.  

 

 

[Goal:thecup]

2 hours ago, NucknAsia said:

And how do you propose we sort our RD issues, 3C issue, bottom 6 issues, and bring in impact players with no cap?

 

Is Jason Megna available? Vey? How about Bearschi? Maybe we can do that all over again?

 

 

 

 

Solving problems and moving forward inherently involves time both in context and so we can at least play '4D Chess'.

In other words, the past is over, and therefore irrelevant.

 

The cap problem has to do with 2022-2023 and beyond, but in 2022-2023 we still have almost 10 million tied up in old problems.

For 2023-2024 almost all of that will be cleared off the books; and I hope new mngt does not overload the future as past mngt did.

 

(Nice to see, rather not see the Weeping Prima Donna Penalty in this list; also, can we get a 'cap refund' for this year and next if Jake is found guilty?)

 

Capfriendly.com bottom of Canucks cap listing:

Spoiler

INJURED RESERVE (3 - $4,154,167)	TERMS	POS	STATUS	ACQUIRED	AGE	CAP%	2022-23
Poolman, Tucker		RD	IR	Signed	29	3.0	$2,500,000
Höglander, Nils	ELC	LW, RW	IR	Draft	21	1.1	$891,667
Keeper, Brady		RD	IR	Signed	26	0.9	$762,500
Sutter, Brandon		RW, C	IR	Signed	33		UFA
TOTAL					27.3	5.0	$4,154,167
LONG-TERM INJURED RESERVE (1 - $3,500,000)	TERMS	POS	STATUS	ACQUIRED	AGE	CAP%	2022-23
Ferland, Micheal Salary Relief: $3,500,000 P.Bonus Relief: $0	M-NTC	LW, RW	LTIR	Signed	30	4.2	$3,500,000
TOTAL					30.0	4.2	$3,500,000
DEAD CAP
BUYOUT HISTORY (2)							2022-23
Braden Holtby							$1,900,000
Jake Virtanen							$500,000
TOTAL							$2,400,000

 

3C and Bottom 6 problems seem to be part of the same thing, so 3C is easily solved for the now by hanging onto our top 3 centers (Bo, EP, and JT).

Highmore and Lammy are UFAs and could come back, etc; not a big deal imo; Lockwood should be ok.

 

I am more interested in bulking up the top wingers, or if we are ok, then adding some speed with power on the wings.

e.g. If Podz is our 1LW then I am ok with Pearson as 2LW.

It will be interesting to see what Nic Paul commands in free agency what with his stellar performance in these playoffs; but he does personify a desirable middle six winger.

I think Brock and Garland are weak, especially as number one RW; but contracts and circumstance might move one or the other out; we need a 1RW, imo.

 

That pretty much leaves the age-old RD problem and nobody thinks this one is going to be easy (even if we 'sell the farm').

Especially with Quinn and OEL sucking up the first 15 million on D.

That leads many to jump to trade Myers and perhaps it is the right thing to do; but we will not get as good a player to replace him, not even at $6 million.

Persson and Johansson might help but won't even be here until next year.

Schenn is still good and Burroughs is almost good enough.

More needs to be done on RD for sure.

 

Last, and not on your list, I think we need to continue to acquire and draft goalie prospects; we are very thin past Demko.

Give Clark some young talent to develop (and get him to select current talent we can use at a good price).

 

 

[billabong]

23 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Excellent!  What have the got we want and desire?  

Lapierre and mcmichael 

 

mcmichael would be the prize acquisition but I’d be shocked if wsh let him go

[JM_]

11 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I see two scenarios.  We go all in now and for the next four years - Miller’s best years and Demko’s excellent contract.  Or we trade Miller which almost certainly means a step back.  And how many years does that step back consume until we leap ahead from depends on the return of picks, prospects, and guys already developed, and good fortune.  

But I keep coming back to JR’s own words and how he’s said (on several occasions) we aren’t good enough, and ?Demko is why we win half our games.  

So, deferring to JR’s experience (and the talented people he’s hired around him) I’m thinking he’s taking us back a step or two. 

 

Which players, then, will be in their primes (and contributing most to winning) when we leap ahead?

JR has already answered that for us: Demko, Hughes, Petey.  I’d say Pods is for sure in that group (for now) too.  

Which players will be past their best years in 3-5?  Miller, Bo, OEL, Myers.  Now there’s little chance we can trade both Miller and Bo and survive falling into a total, bottom diving rebuild.  So which one goes?  I say Miller.  OEL is nearly impossible to move unless we take back an equally crappy contract, like Anderson from the Habs.  No thanks; that’s worse.  So OEL stays.  Myers could fetch a very handsome return at the 2023 TDL, so he’s staying until then.  Who else from our top minute guys will go then?  Boeser or Garland will be out this summer.

So out this summer will be (drumb roll) 

Miller, Garland 

2023 will be Myers.

Now are those trades bringing in 23-27 year old fully developed guys to help now?  I think that’s what our owner wants, so we take a small step back, but still give fans hope for success now.  

 

 

I've been saying something similar for a while now, its either give this core what it needs to compete (bigger, better d in particular) or blow the mo-fo up.

 

I hear a lot about timing, that Miller must be moved for us to time things correctly for this group. But thats not going to happen if the return is picks and prospects for Miller. No pics for Miller will help within 3-4 years. 

 

If we're going to shed Miler, then lets just do it right, trade everyone over 25 not named Demko that we can tank hard for next season. We should be able to get a group of ELCs/RFAs/high picks that allows for a quick turnaround.

 

 

Edited June 18, 2022 by JM_

[Pazura92]

What do you guys think of trading Miller to the flyers ? 
would this be doable ?

 

PHI - Miller 

 

VAN - 2022 5OA 

        - Travis Konecny 

        -Morgan Frost

 

We get to draft Jiricek hopefully, RD that we need ( although I’d say 2 years away )

konecny is still a good player and is 25 years old and still on contact at 5.5 for 3 more years, and he would be awesome beside his cousin Bo.

and I think frost would solve our 3C problem. He hasn’t had the best development and chances in philly but I think he could be a lot better with the Canucks 

[NucknAsia]

39 minutes ago, Goal:thecup said:

Solving problems and moving forward inherently involves time both in context and so we can at least play '4D Chess'.

In other words, the past is over, and therefore irrelevant.

 

The cap problem has to do with 2022-2023 and beyond, but in 2022-2023 we still have almost 10 million tied up in old problems.

For 2023-2024 almost all of that will be cleared off the books; and I hope new mngt does not overload the future as past mngt did.

 

(Nice to see, rather not see the Weeping Prima Donna Penalty in this list; also, can we get a 'cap refund' for this year and next if Jake is found guilty?)

 

Capfriendly.com bottom of Canucks cap listing:

  Reveal hidden contents

INJURED RESERVE (3 - $4,154,167)	TERMS	POS	STATUS	ACQUIRED	AGE	CAP%	2022-23
Poolman, Tucker		RD	IR	Signed	29	3.0	$2,500,000
Höglander, Nils	ELC	LW, RW	IR	Draft	21	1.1	$891,667
Keeper, Brady		RD	IR	Signed	26	0.9	$762,500
Sutter, Brandon		RW, C	IR	Signed	33		UFA
TOTAL					27.3	5.0	$4,154,167
LONG-TERM INJURED RESERVE (1 - $3,500,000)	TERMS	POS	STATUS	ACQUIRED	AGE	CAP%	2022-23
Ferland, Micheal Salary Relief: $3,500,000 P.Bonus Relief: $0	M-NTC	LW, RW	LTIR	Signed	30	4.2	$3,500,000
TOTAL					30.0	4.2	$3,500,000
DEAD CAP
BUYOUT HISTORY (2)							2022-23
Braden Holtby							$1,900,000
Jake Virtanen							$500,000
TOTAL							$2,400,000

 

3C and Bottom 6 problems seem to be part of the same thing, so 3C is easily solved for the now by hanging onto our top 3 centers (Bo, EP, and JT).

Highmore and Lammy are UFAs and could come back, etc; not a big deal imo; Lockwood should be ok.

 

I am more interested in bulking up the top wingers, or if we are ok, then adding some speed with power on the wings.

e.g. If Podz is our 1LW then I am ok with Pearson as 2LW.

It will be interesting to see what Nic Paul commands in free agency what with his stellar performance in these playoffs; but he does personify a desirable middle six winger.

I think Brock and Garland are weak, especially as number one RW; but contracts and circumstance might move one or the other out; we need a 1RW, imo.

 

That pretty much leaves the age-old RD problem and nobody thinks this one is going to be easy (even if we 'sell the farm').

Especially with Quinn and OEL sucking up the first 15 million on D.

That leads many to jump to trade Myers and perhaps it is the right thing to do; but we will not get as good a player to replace him, not even at $6 million.

Persson and Johansson might help but won't even be here until next year.

Schenn is still good and Burroughs is almost good enough.

More needs to be done on RD for sure.

 

Last, and not on your list, I think we need to continue to acquire and draft goalie prospects; we are very thin past Demko.

Give Clark some young talent to develop (and get him to select current talent we can use at a good price).

 

 

 

 

Yes, I wasn't suggesting we target Megna, Baerschi and Vey....umm it was sarcasm dude

 

Appreciate the response but all you've done is laid out our issues (and I agree with most of your comments).

The issue were debating is HOW, when we are cap constrained and people want to sign both Miller and Bo....in my view one has to go (along with other players) to create the cap flexibility and core that can compete for cups.

 

Edited June 18, 2022 by NucknAsia

[NucknAsia]

1 hour ago, -DLC- said:

Fact: Petey was off 

Fact: Bo was hurt

Fact: We sucked up until Bruce took over

Fact: After Bruce took over, there was a massive turnaround

Fact: We fared pretty well in the bubble playoffs

Fact: We have Podz looking pretty sharp in the line up

Fact: We've beat top teams and it's an indicator that we can

 

It is a feeling that some have that we will instantly upgrade according to their plan. It's not a fact until it's proven.

You haven't named one defenseman there

 

I think you have to look at our defense and players and consider how far we are from having a stanley cup winning top 4 and defensive core.

As JR said, we were winning because of a great goalie saving our bad defense regularly...bad defense and decent offense does not win cups. Toronto and Edmonton have great offenses and bad defense...and where are they?

 

And we're not moving Myers, Poolman, Pearson and MATERIALLY improving that back end. So the point has been, we need to move someone of value, and deal from a position of strength to improve an area of severe weakness. This is common sense and the key to building a successful team , and I am not sure why you won't accept that reality. 

Yes a great goalie can save you, but you can't rely on that...JR has said it as well.

 

You seem to 'care' about the players more than the team... I get it...but as a fan of 35 years now, I'm personally tired of watching a team constantly stuck in the middle. Not good enough to win, not bad enough for high picks to rebuild properly. We have redundant assets than can help bolster weak areas of our team and make us a contender.

 

Do you realize Trevor Linden was traded at 28 years old? You know what it brought back? Bertuzzi, Bryan McCabe, and a third (Jaarko Ruutu). McCabe turned into a Sedin....Imagine if we didn't make that trade? That many including myself hated at the time.

The goal is to win a cup, not say hey great we made the playoffs! 

Edited June 18, 2022 by NucknAsia

[KirkSave]

I think a full training camp under BB will be huge for this team. Even if we bring in a number of new pieces, they will have time to learn the systems. Petey with a full training camp, coming in from a solid offseason of training (no injury to rehab) will be massive for him. I am predicting that he is going to explode offensively and lead the team in points, collecting 90-100. I also expect Huggy to have a dominant season. He is so impressive, he worked hard on improving his game on the defensive side of the puck last offseason and was far better this season. All that critiscim he took seemed to spur him.

 

I hope we can bring back JT Miller becuase he brings the intangibles of a true leader to this team. He wants to win bad, whether it is here or elsewhere is up to him and this to me, will dictate whether he stays or goes. If he decides to sign for something like a 6x8mill contract he will be a Canuck. He plays in all situations here. We have 2 young superstars in the making and an All-Star goalie. ALvin and his team by adding the right type of depth players, moving out Boeser, Myers, Pearson and Poolman to help with our cap crunch. This is how I see things going down. Guess now we wait and see how everything will pan out this summer and beyond.

[AC Readership]

1 hour ago, JM_ said:

I've been saying something similar for a while now, its either give this core what it needs to compete (bigger, better d in particular) or blow the mo-fo up.

 

I hear a lot about timing, that Miller must be moved for us to time things correctly for this group. But thats not going to happen if the return is picks and prospects for Miller. No pics for Miller will help within 3-4 years. 

 

If we're going to shed Miler, then lets just do it right, trade everyone over 25 not named Demko that we can tank hard for next season. We should be able to get a group of ELCs/RFAs/high picks that allows for a quick turnaround.

That is exactly what needs to happen, especially tanking next season. Load up on picks for 23, & 24 in addition to taking on some expiring contracts for picks & prospects.

[Goal:thecup]

37 minutes ago, NucknAsia said:

 

 

Yes, I wasn't suggesting we target Megna, Baerschi and Vey....umm it was sarcasm dude

 

Appreciate the response but all you've done is laid out our issues (and I agree with most of your comments).

The issue were debating is HOW, when we are cap constrained and people want to sign both Miller and Bo....in my view one has to go (along with other players) to create the cap flexibility and core that can compete for cups.

 

I tried to show that time matters; Bo and Miller are not going to be paid more than their team-friendly current contracts this year.

This year, almost 10 million (over 9, I think) will come off the cap, and that will help with 2023-2024 cap and signings/re-signings (next year).

 

I like a lot of your posts, but I am personally of (at least) 2 minds:

 

-If Mills wants to test Free Agency, we have to trade him, cuz we probably won't pay as much for as long as other teams might.

So then I'm in the "Trade Miller" camp.  (But never in the 'lose or tank for a better pick' camp.)

 

-But if JT wants to make his mark and sign for a team-friendly deal, let's keep our good players, and push to contend.

 

Contrary to some of the stuff one might read here, constant attempts to attain improvements towards a goal is a valid method of, of,

of Winning The Stanley Cup!

 

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, Goal:thecup said:

I tried to show that time matters; Bo and Miller are not going to be paid more than their team-friendly current contracts this year.

This year, almost 10 million (over 9, I think) will come off the cap, and that will help with 2023-2024 cap and signings/re-signings (next year).

 

I like a lot of your posts, but I am personally of (at least) 2 minds:

 

-If Mills wants to test Free Agency, we have to trade him, cuz we probably won't pay as much for as long as other teams might.

So then I'm in the "Trade Miller" camp.  (But never in the 'lose or tank for a better pick' camp.)

 

-But if JT wants to make his mark and sign for a team-friendly deal, let's keep our good players, and push to contend.

 

Contrary to some of the stuff one might read here, constant attempts to attain improvements towards a goal is a valid method of, of,

of Winning The Stanley Cup!

 

Sometimes it’s best to punt.  IMHAO we need to punt.

But I don’t think JR (our owner will allow) will punt.  He will trade Miller and Garland but there will be players, who can fin it right away, coming back.