[Rumour] J.T. Miller Trade/Contract Talks

[SilentSam]

39 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Or not tying up +/- $9m for a couple non-contending years (regardless of keeping Miller or not) of his peak, before the inevitable mid 30's decline to a $9m 3rd liner in the meat of our young core's prime. All while now blocking any means to to fix the major structural and succesion issues on D because we lack the cap space to do so.

Your opinion.

[Gawdzukes]

1 hour ago, HKSR said:

You mean how we've given this core 3 years to work with?  Sedins left 3 years ago.  Petey and Hughes were just drafted in those 3 years, now we talk about how this core can't win and are ready to make drastic moves.

No not at all. I mean how it is absolutely clear as day that changes need to be made to make this team perennially competitive. Yet people like yourself want to forgo what's necessary and try to win now with an inferior team. That's Impatience!!!

 

Not to mention this is JB's core and he's no longer the GM. 

 

See you've got it backwards. Being patient in this case doesn't mean giving your core forever to work it out at all costs. It means making the necessary changes when problems are identified and having the resolve to accept the time it takes to see them through. Even if that puts you one step back to take two ahead. It's easy to just put your ears back and forge ahead but a lot more difficult to do the right thing.

[tas]

12 minutes ago, BPA said:

Psst…

 

Kesler also demanded a trade out and ANA was the only option.

 

 

 

dude I'm not here defending kesler. I couldn't stand the guy the entire time he was a canuck.

[coryberg]

41 minutes ago, grandmaster said:

Efforts should be made to sign him at a reasonable contract prior to trading him. Guys like you don’t seem to even want management to try

Unfortunately we can't even try to sign him to a new contract until next season. At that point his value clearly goes down as you are only getting him for 1 playoff run and not 2.

[Ronning4center]

36 minutes ago, grandmaster said:

Efforts should be made to sign him at a reasonable contract prior to trading him. Guys like you don’t seem to even want management to try

Im sure they'll try but it's not going to happen.  Miller is american and wants to play for a US team.  He is a UFA and on his last contract and he's producing at a peak

rate at which i will never be able to keep up.  Yes if miller wants to stay for 4 years at 6 million then great.  Thats just not reality.  Its going to be 6 years at 8 million plus.

I think this is why its a forgone conclusion for most of us.

[HKSR]

37 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

No not at all. I mean how it is absolutely clear as day that changes need to be made to make this team perennially competitive. Yet people like yourself want to forgo what's necessary and try to win now with an inferior team. That's Impatience!!!

 

Not to mention this is JB's core and he's no longer the GM. 

 

See you've got it backwards. Being patient in this case doesn't mean giving your core forever to work it out at all costs. It means making the necessary changes when problems are identified and having the resolve to accept the time it takes to see them through. Even if that puts you one step back to take two ahead. It's easy to just put your ears back and forge ahead but a lot more difficult to do the right thing.

How do you know what problems exist when you haven't given the core a chance to work together for more than 3 years?  Do you think moving a bunch more players and shuffling things around again after 3 (and 1 shortened) seasons is gonna help the team build more chemistry?

 

I wish they'd at least give this core 5 years to play together to see if things can work out.  It's like we expect overnight success from these guys when they haven't even had a chance to work on things together.

[Gawdzukes]

1 hour ago, HKSR said:

Funny thing is what pissed off Miller probably more than anybody else is the fact Toffoli, Tanev, Edler and Markstrom were all let go after a playoff run where the Canucks nearly eliminated Vegas.

 

Now we're doing it again... this time Miller, Boeser, Garland, Motte are all on the chopping block. 

 

All I'm saying is, this team has never had a good opportunity to gel.  There's always so many moving parts that the team chemistry can never build.

You seem to have trouble grasping the complexities of the salary cap and the resulting difficulties all teams go through. None of those players listed were let go because they were unwanted. They were cap casualties. You can't just keep everyone. Several of these guys were even offered contracts. Unfortunately that's hockey.

 

New management is in and they are very wary of the impending cap crunch, and they are not happy with the old set-up. Neither am I and neither are many other posters. It's as simple as that. 

[HKSR]

42 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

No not at all. I mean how it is absolutely clear as day that changes need to be made to make this team perennially competitive. Yet people like yourself want to forgo what's necessary and try to win now with an inferior team. That's Impatience!!!

 

Not to mention this is JB's core and he's no longer the GM. 

 

See you've got it backwards. Being patient in this case doesn't mean giving your core forever to work it out at all costs. It means making the necessary changes when problems are identified and having the resolve to accept the time it takes to see them through. Even if that puts you one step back to take two ahead. It's easy to just put your ears back and forge ahead but a lot more difficult to do the right thing.

2018-19

- Pettersson is a rookie

- No Hughes or Miller yet

- Finished 23rd in the NHL (rightfully so)

 

2019-20

- Hughes is a rookie

- Miller joins the team

- Lost Game 7 to Vegas

 

2020-21

- Pettersson injured and gone for the season after only 26 games

- Finished 24th in the NHL

 

2021-22

THIS CORE SUCKS!  THEY CAN'T WIN ANYTHING!  TRADE MILLER, BOESER, AND GARLAND.  MAYBE HORVAT OR PETEY TOO IF THE RIGHT OFFER COMES ALONG!

 

THAT is impatience my friend.  Look above again.  Rookie year for Young Gun 1, Rookie year for Young Gun 2, LTIR for Young Gun 1, then LET THE TRADING BEGIN!

 

[Gurn]

31 minutes ago, HKSR said:

2018-19

- Pettersson is a rookie

- No Hughes or Miller yet

- Finished 23rd in the NHL (rightfully so)

 

2019-20

- Hughes is a rookie

- Miller joins the team

- Lost Game 7 to Vegas

 

2020-21

- Pettersson injured and gone for the season after only 26 games

- Finished 24th in the NHL

 

2021-22

THIS CORE SUCKS!  THEY CAN'T WIN ANYTHING!  TRADE MILLER, BOESER, AND GARLAND.  MAYBE HORVAT OR PETEY TOO IF THE RIGHT OFFER COMES ALONG!

 

THAT is impatience my friend.  Look above again.  Rookie year for Young Gun 1, Rookie year for Young Gun 2, LTIR for Young Gun 1, then LET THE TRADING BEGIN!

 

 Are, and were you, a big supporter of J.B. and Green?

Because firing them was just impatience?

[HKSR]

3 minutes ago, gurn said:

 Are, and were you, a big supporter of J.B. and Green?

Because firing them was just impatience?

Nope, I supported GMJB up until the point it took forever to fire Green.  Then I felt like we got a glimpse of what this team is capable of. 

 

Not sure what that has to do with giving this core more than 2.5 years of play time to build some chemistry though.

[Gurn]

10 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Nope, I supported GMJB up until the point it took forever to fire Green.  Then I felt like we got a glimpse of what this team is capable of. 

 

Not sure what that has to do with giving this core more than 2.5 years of play time to build some chemistry though.

Just trying to figure out your sense of "too soon", as com[pared to "on time."

But firing a coach, with out giving him time to coach this years team, for a few more years does seem a bit impatient, given your desire to let players "gel"

[stawns]

8 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Nope, I supported GMJB up until the point it took forever to fire Green.  Then I felt like we got a glimpse of what this team is capable of. 

 

Not sure what that has to do with giving this core more than 2.5 years of play time to build some chemistry though.

And what are they going to be capable of when Miller walks?

[HKSR]

Just now, gurn said:

Just trying to figure out your sense of "too soon", as com[pared to "on time."

But firing a coach, with out giving him time to coach this years team, for a few more years does seem a bit impatient, given your desire to let players "gel"

I don't think there was a single Canucks fan that felt that Green was the right coach for this core. 

 

Trading or keeping Miller on the other hand is a great debate.

[HKSR]

2 minutes ago, stawns said:

And what are they going to be capable of when Miller walks?

That's drawing a huge conclusion right now.  If JR/Allvin talk to Miller and his agent and they determine that Miller doesn't wanna stay, well then sure, of course move him.  However, if Miller wants to stay and see this through, we are not necessarily better off moving him.

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, HKSR said:

That's drawing a huge conclusion right now.  If JR/Allvin talk to Miller and his agent and they determine that Miller doesn't wanna stay, well then sure, of course move him.  However, if Miller wants to stay and see this through, we are not necessarily better off moving him.

But you're operating under the assumption he's going to be asking for Petey money, correct?

[HKSR]

Just now, stawns said:

But you're operating under the assumption he's going to be asking for Petey money, correct?

Operating on the fact he's gonna want $8M+

[Provost]

41 minutes ago, HKSR said:

2018-19

- Pettersson is a rookie

- No Hughes or Miller yet

- Finished 23rd in the NHL (rightfully so)

 

2019-20

- Hughes is a rookie

- Miller joins the team

- Lost Game 7 to Vegas

 

2020-21

- Pettersson injured and gone for the season after only 26 games

- Finished 24th in the NHL

 

2021-22

THIS CORE SUCKS!  THEY CAN'T WIN ANYTHING!  TRADE MILLER, BOESER, AND GARLAND.  MAYBE HORVAT OR PETEY TOO IF THE RIGHT OFFER COMES ALONG!

 

THAT is impatience my friend.  Look above again.  Rookie year for Young Gun 1, Rookie year for Young Gun 2, LTIR for Young Gun 1, then LET THE TRADING BEGIN!

 

Good grief…

We have been consistently bad every year with no material improvement.  Even the bubble year we really finished out of the playoffs and got in due to a weird COVID technicality.

 

We squandered having two elite players on their ELCs which is really an ideal time to compete and have a good window because you are getting great value out of them.  We are now paying them market rates.

 

The core sucks, they can’t win.  It is silly to hang your hat on a few games of decent play a couple of years ago when we had a goalie steal almost every game for us.  Believe the other hundreds of games around it and since.  It is a non playoff team with cap issues.  That is objective reality.

 

There is no magic universe where we have a bunch of years to make improvements from here. Players start rolling off as UFAs starting after next season… so we are facing actually getting worse as some or all of them can chooose to move on and we don’t have replacements in the system.

 

Our team at the end of next season with Horvat and Miller walking as UFAs would go from bad to atrocious.  We can’t replace them on the open market for what we are paying them.  If that happens, the team does have to go into full rebuild mode again and push any hopes of having a window another 5 years AFTER next season.

 

 

[aGENT]

49 minutes ago, HKSR said:

2018-19

- Pettersson is a rookie

- No Hughes or Miller yet

- Finished 23rd in the NHL (rightfully so)

 

2019-20

- Hughes is a rookie

- Miller joins the team

- Lost Game 7 to Vegas

 

2020-21

- Pettersson injured and gone for the season after only 26 games

- Finished 24th in the NHL

 

2021-22

THIS CORE SUCKS!  THEY CAN'T WIN ANYTHING!  TRADE MILLER, BOESER, AND GARLAND.  MAYBE HORVAT OR PETEY TOO IF THE RIGHT OFFER COMES ALONG!

 

THAT is impatience my friend.  Look above again.  Rookie year for Young Gun 1, Rookie year for Young Gun 2, LTIR for Young Gun 1, then LET THE TRADING BEGIN!

 

But nobody here is suggesting moving Hughes and Pettersson.... This is the Miller trade thread. The guy who doesn't fit the young core's age range and is going to eat so much cap we'd never be able to form a contending team around them.

 

It exists because people DO want to give that young core, THEIR best chance to win.

[HKSR]

2 minutes ago, Provost said:

Good grief…

We have been consistently bad every year with no material improvement.  Even the bubble year we really finished out of the playoffs and got in due to a weird COVID technicality.

 

We squandered having two elite players on their ELCs which is really an ideal time to compete and have a good window because you are getting great value out of them.  We are now paying them market rates.

 

The core sucks, they can’t win.  It is silly to hang your hat on a few games of decent play a couple of years ago when we had a goalie steal almost every game for us.  Believe the other hundreds of games around it and since.  It is a non playoff team with cap issues.  That is objective reality.

 

There is no magic universe where we have a bunch of years to make improvements from here. Players start rolling off as UFAs starting after next season… so we are facing actually getting worse as some or all of them can chooose to move on and we don’t have replacements in the system.

 

Our team at the end of next season with Horvat and Miller walking as UFAs would go from bad to atrocious.  We can’t replace them on the open market for what we are paying them.  If that happens, the team does have to go into full rebuild mode again and push any hopes of having a window another 5 years AFTER next season.

 

 

Like I said... IMPATIENT.  Young teams lose.  We didn't have a core before we drafted Petey and Hughes.

 

When you look at the Avs, they had 5 years of Duchene and O'Reilly before blowing it up somewhat in Year 6 by trading those 2.

 

Meanwhile, we can't even allow our core the time to develop chemistry and we're ready to tear it apart already.

[HKSR]

Just now, aGENT said:

But nobody here is suggesting moving Hughes and Pettersson.... This is the Miller trade thread. The guy who doesn't fit the young core's age range and is going to eat so much cap we'd never be able to form a contending team around them.

 

It exists because people DO want to give that young core, THEIR best chance to win.

Actually, there ARE people suggesting moving Petey LOL...