5nothincanucksohno Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 2 minutes ago, higgyfan said: The Vancouver Canucks team rosters from 2015-2022 would not win a cup with Crosby as their captain. Hockey is a team game. One person doesn't determine how good the team is. Bo will not get the huge haul you think he will. He'll be a UFA and will decide where he will sign for next season. What team is going to give up a huge haul, when he might walk at the end of this season? It's the same situation as JT Miller. There was no huge haul to be had for him either. I would argue that they would have made the playoffs with Crosby instead of Horvat. Crosby is the hardest worker in the league, and he demands the same from his teammates...as Captain BH has the potential to yield a huge return...Lebrun wrote that even non-playoff teams will be interested. First swing at signing him. Miller is much slower and more of a long-term risk in my opinion. BH fills a clear role...he just isn't a the Captain of a playoff team type of player. Will fit really nicely on a team with strong leadership already in place 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toyotasfan Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 Horvat and Myers for Barbashev and Parayko is pretty close salary wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
combover Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 56 minutes ago, 5nothincanucksohno said: Damn, try some punctuation. No playoffs in how many years as Captain? Yaaaaa... I don't think there are any fans that dislike Bo, the problem is he can't get this team over the hump, and wants $7.75M per...why would should the team compound last seasons mistake and not trade him for a huge haul? Talk about clueless. Last time I checked the captain doesn’t assemble the team! a dim witted idiot did! The captain did once whine about his trash line mates. the mistake was resigning miller trading for OEL signing myers and trading 7 years worth of depth draft picks for essentially nothing. the “haul” you speak of will consist of draft picks and prospects no win now team is giving up a young top 2 rhd D niether will teams are building. Look at what the rumours from Detroit. None help us in the next 2 or 3 years. Who was the captain when the team went on the bubble run… yup clueless!!!!! i used extra punctuation so the inner grammar cop could take the night off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Wont Sell The Team Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 Any trade of Bo or Miller has to have a 1st rounder in it. You can then use that 1st rounder to get rid of OEL contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 29 minutes ago, Alflives said: If Bo isn’t worth a huge haul as a coming UFA rental then why the heck should we pay huge cap dollars to keep him? The Canucks don't have to give up players to re-sign him. Like the recent proposal for Detroit. Would they give up Edvinsson + Rasmussen knowing that Bo could walk away at the end of this season? Not likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5nothincanucksohno Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 1 minute ago, combover said: Last time I checked the captain doesn’t assemble the team! a dim witted idiot did! The captain did once whine about his trash line mates. the mistake was resigning miller trading for OEL signing myers and trading 7 years worth of depth draft picks for essentially nothing. the “haul” you speak of will consist of draft picks and prospects no win now team is giving up a young top 2 rhd D niether will teams are building. Look at what the rumours from Detroit. None help us in the next 2 or 3 years. Who was the captain when the team went on the bubble run… yup clueless!!!!! i used extra punctuation so the inner grammar cop could take the night off. Hurts my eyes reading that but I did pick out that we are counting the bubble as a legit playoffs? Hilarious...you appear to accept mediocrity like BH does. He should have put his foot down and demanded better line mates, he should have pushed the team harder to improve their individual skills, he should be better 5v5 and on the PK to lead this team forward but it isn't in him. Again,, Bo is a good Canuck but this team isn't going anywhere with him and are better off selling high (before he regresses in a non contract year). Teams like Detroit have solid pieces that would impact the club in the next couple years as well as add to the number of picks in the cupboard (which can be flipped for NHL level upgrades if needed) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5nothincanucksohno Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 11 minutes ago, combover said: Last time I checked the captain doesn’t assemble the team! a dim witted idiot did! The captain did once whine about his trash line mates. the mistake was resigning miller trading for OEL signing myers and trading 7 years worth of depth draft picks for essentially nothing. the “haul” you speak of will consist of draft picks and prospects no win now team is giving up a young top 2 rhd D niether will teams are building. Look at what the rumours from Detroit. None help us in the next 2 or 3 years. Who was the captain when the team went on the bubble run… yup clueless!!!!! i used extra punctuation so the inner grammar cop could take the night off. BTW mgmt should do everything they can to trade Myers and Miller at the deadline as well (along with a bunch of other +25 year olds). Some desperate GM will bite with some salary retained on Myers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 (edited) 23 minutes ago, 5nothincanucksohno said: Hurts my eyes reading that but I did pick out that we are counting the bubble as a legit playoffs? Hilarious...you appear to accept mediocrity like BH does. He should have put his foot down and demanded better line mates, he should have pushed the team harder to improve their individual skills, he should be better 5v5 and on the PK to lead this team forward but it isn't in him. Again,, Bo is a good Canuck but this team isn't going anywhere with him and are better off selling high (before he regresses in a non contract year). Teams like Detroit have solid pieces that would impact the club in the next couple years as well as add to the number of picks in the cupboard (which can be flipped for NHL level upgrades if needed) If we trading Bo we might as well rebuild and trade others as well. Like Miller, Kuz, Garland, etc. Boeser i'd probably wait for now cause his value is low and with those guys out he'll play top line minutes which means more opportunity for production. Could do this with Garland as well. If you can find a trade for OEL move him but I wouldn't use any picks to move OEL. 4 years after this one anyone we draft in 2023-2025 will expire close to or at the same time as him(Probably most in 2023 since I don't see anyone besides a top 5 pick stepping in right away). I guess he can be a veteran for a young D to play with. Myers you probably right retention then someone might take him. If not higher chance someone takes him next year with 1 year left and retention. Same goes for Pearson. Try to do what Ducks did and sign someone like Klingberg(above average player who can't get contract) for a year that you can flip. Or take cap dumps for picks/prospects from cap strapped teams. Edited November 11, 2022 by Junkyard Dog 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
combover Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 (edited) 28 minutes ago, 5nothincanucksohno said: Hurts my eyes reading that but I did pick out that we are counting the bubble as a legit playoffs? Hilarious...you appear to accept mediocrity like BH does. He should have put his foot down and demanded better line mates, he should have pushed the team harder to improve their individual skills, he should be better 5v5 and on the PK to lead this team forward but it isn't in him. Again,, Bo is a good Canuck but this team isn't going anywhere with him and are better off selling high (before he regresses in a non contract year). Teams like Detroit have solid pieces that would impact the club in the next couple years as well as add to the number of picks in the cupboard (which can be flipped for NHL level upgrades if needed) Clearly your new here. “he should have demanded better line mates” lol that statement alone tells me how little you know about the kind of player and professional Horvat is. We should blow this mess up but no more half steps all or nothing rebuild. Sick of two steps forward ten steps back AKA the JB no plan plan. Edited November 11, 2022 by combover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strawbone Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 The one constant with the Canucks in these last 7 years of mediocrity and disappointment is Bo Horvat. I’m not saying he’s not a good player but the entire roster has been revamped, they’ve had 3 coaches, and now an entirely new management team. Everything has changed except for Bo. Maybe it’s just not going to work out here, and trading him for some very good assets might be just the change this team needs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucker 67 Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 Bo is hitting his prime, his best hockey ahead of him. I'd prefer if they traded Miller instead, but maybe the return on Horvat would be too good to pass up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 6 minutes ago, Strawbone said: The one constant with the Canucks in these last 7 years of mediocrity and disappointment is Bo Horvat. I’m not saying he’s not a good player but the entire roster has been revamped, they’ve had 3 coaches, and now an entirely new management team. Everything has changed except for Bo. Maybe it’s just not going to work out here, and trading him for some very good assets might be just the change this team needs. That seems like a bit of a correlation/causation miscue. That said, we may not have a choice at this point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5nothincanucksohno Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 2 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said: If we trading Bo we might as well rebuild and trade others as well. Like Miller, Kuz, Garland, etc. Boeser i'd probably wait for now cause his value is low and with those guys out he'll play top line minutes which means more opportunity for production. Could do this with Garland as well. If you can find a trade for OEL move him but I wouldn't use any picks to move OEL. 4 years after this one anyone we draft in 2023-2025 will expire close to or at the same time as him(Probably most in 2023 since I don't see anyone besides a top 5 pick stepping in right away). I guess he can be a veteran for a young D to play with. Myers you probably right retention then someone might take him. If not higher chance someone takes him next year with 1 year left and retention. Same goes for Pearson. Try to do what Ducks did and sign someone like Klingberg(above average player who can't get contract) for a year that you can flip. Or take cap dumps for picks/prospects from cap strapped teams. If it was me, which means nothing, I would be shooting for a team that looks a little like this next year: Kuz EP Mik Garland xxx Podz Hogs xxx xxx DJ Aman Lazar (or any other combo of fourth liners) QH xxx Xxx xxx OEL Schenn Demko/Martin I would try and trade everyone else at the deadline/offseason for solid returns (relative to the player and their contract). Some big holes to fill but any TDL trade, 2023 draft pick, and/or UFA singing should be focused on center and defense prospects and young up and coming roster players. Hopefully mgmt can find players to fill two or three of those spots next year. In the meantime, someone like Boeser might have to stay on until prospects move up, etc. Next year should be about playing the young players, clearing some cap, being competitive, and seeing if EP can lead. The following two years should be about establishing a solid team and hopefully some playoff success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5nothincanucksohno Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 10 minutes ago, combover said: Clearly your new here. “he should have demanded better line mates” lol that statement alone tells me how little you know about the kind of player and professional Horvat is. We should blow this mess up but no more half steps all or nothing rebuild. Sick of two steps forward ten steps back AKA the JB no plan plan. ????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Strawbone said: The one constant with the Canucks in these last 7 years of mediocrity and disappointment is Bo Horvat. I’m not saying he’s not a good player but the entire roster has been revamped, they’ve had 3 coaches, and now an entirely new management team. Everything has changed except for Bo. Maybe it’s just not going to work out here, and trading him for some very good assets might be just the change this team needs. You're giving Bo too much merit with what's been going. He has not exactly been running this team. The one constant you can say in the last 7 years is that retooling really hasn't worked for us. Last management tried it and this one is maintaining that constant. If we trade Horvat we might as well rebuild. In order to compete this team requires a lot to be done with not a lot to work with and not a lot of time to get it done. We can't afford setbacks and losing Horvat would be a major one if the goal is to compete. Edited November 11, 2022 by Junkyard Dog 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strawbone Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 13 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said: You're giving Bo too much merit with what's been going. He has not exactly been running this team. The one constant you can say in the last 7 years is that retooling really hasn't worked for us. Last management tried it and this one is maintaining that constant. If we trade Horvat we might as well rebuild. In order to compete this team requires a lot to be done with not a lot to work with and not a lot of time to get it done. We can't afford setbacks and losing Horvat would be a major one if the goal is to compete. I think we could get a very good 3C and a very good RHD for Bo, especially if he keeps playing like this. The 3C handles key faceoffs and hard defensive matchups, making up for Bo’s loss in those areas. I’m not worried about fully replacing Bo’s offense, I think we have enough firepower if we can improve our D, which that trade would do. Most importantly, it would signal a change of leadership and a new dressing room culture. As much as I like Bo as a player I’m not convinced he should be a captain. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Strawbone said: I think we could get a very good 3C and a very good RHD for Bo, especially if he keeps playing like this. The 3C handles key faceoffs and hard defensive matchups, making up for Bo’s loss in those areas. I’m not worried about fully replacing Bo’s offense, I think we have enough firepower if we can improve our D, which that trade would do. Most importantly, it would signal a change of leadership and a new dressing room culture. As much as I like Bo as a player I’m not convinced he should be a captain. We're not getting that. No playoff team will give up those assets and no team aspiring to get into the playoffs will give that up as well. They want to add on their team without giving anything of significance on their roster away. What they will mainly give up are picks and prospects. Edited November 11, 2022 by Junkyard Dog 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastsidenuck Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 (edited) Attach kuzmenko/hog to dump OEL Bo for girard miller/myers for ryjohanson/fabbro Draft bedard bring them home just win Edited November 11, 2022 by Eastsidenuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R3aL Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 53 minutes ago, Coconuts said: I don't know, Miller's lengthy contract doesn't seem to line up with that. Miller will be 30 when next season rolls around, forwards tend to drop off sooner than D or #1 goaltenders. I reckon he's got 3 more seasons of top production in him, but he's signed for another 7 years. The years he's probably in decline line up with when Pettersson is likely peaking, and I always questioned the wisdom of that. Thing is, unlike Bo, if Miller ain't producing he's not quite as valuable. If folks think he's questionable defensively now that's likely not going to improve with age. Bo being just a little bit younger could make quite a difference when it comes to a return on investment on say.. a 7 year deal. But I think there's a good chance Bo goes, and if he does I firmly believe Miller should too. But then again, Bo or no Bo I'm on board with stripping this roster down. This team ain't good enough. Ya agree it is scary to think is in 2-4 years when his production starts to drop, he will probably get more frustrated, make worse mistakes and create more turnovers. Be slower physically and be caught out of position even more. Miller needs to go in my mind. And I think he could really be successful insulated in a strong system on a strong team and a PP1 weapon. So I could see how teams see his value. And I think he is moveable. But the ego / to the decision making of signing him as our guy then in a matter of months reevaluating like OOPS is bad team optics and they may refuse. Problem with BO is he could really want out. He may not want to spend another 2-4 years to hopefully turn it around. I think he wants to stay in a perfect world, if we were winning or he could visualize a path to winning I could see him signing. But the problem is how does he sign for less than Miller at this point? If I was him I wouldn't. Why should he get offered less than Boeser makes? It's rather insulting. He wont be easy to replace but if we can get a quality haul from him, something for Miller and a top draft pick this season it could be whaat we need. Then we can trim the fat from the Vets that need to go: Myers and Pearson I am sure they will look at moving OEL by any means necessary with minimal retention if any, unless his drop off is truly because of his foot right now. OR might even just in general. Hard to be an optimistic fan right now it really is. Im not even sold on JR as a team builder either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick_theRyper Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 Canucks need to learn when to cash in and stop buying in on 30 years olds during the off-season. Too many contracts are constantly just" riding them out" Loved Miller last year but he would have gotten more than Kesler did. Signed Beagle, Rooster, Ferland, Myers etc when we needed to surround the you kids with a good D core. Could have kept Tanev... So many mistakes. We have the young players and Bo should be the captain, but we blew out budget for 10 years... Now we'll ride out Miller and OEL, Boeser. Bah I'm gonna be pissed if we trade Bo and keep Miller. His attitude stinks. I watched him Live the other night he lags off the ice slower than Jake did, on the regular. Never hustles stays out too long. Not happy about it all 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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