[Rumour] Bo Horvat Trade/Contract Talks

[cripplereh]

On 12/18/2022 at 2:25 AM, kodos said:

Yeah but we can’t do that if Aquilini is directing our management to not trade for any futures at all

If he gets the right players and we can get the right free agents he might think twice.

[jyu]

31 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

Kinda out of nowhere but interesting - they've made big moves before when nobody thought they would/could::

 

https://www.vegashockeynow.com/2022/12/16/vegas-golden-knights-trade-rumors-bo-horvat-nhl-trade-deadline-2023

They don't really have any sexy prospects as far as I can tell.

 

I hope a trade materializes with either Colorado or NYR.

 

[5nothincanucksohno]

27 minutes ago, Diamonds said:

Horvat has had maybe 3 off games this season, one of which was the season opener. The only forward on the roster with more blocked shots than Horvat is Pettersson. He's been incredibly consistent this season. Yes, Bo had a pretty meh game on Saturday (but was still 71% on faceoffs and scored a goal). He missed an attempt to block a shot and suddenly he's being vilified as not giving effort and not caring about the success of this team? 

 

I don't understand this fanbase sometimes. No, Horvat is obviously not a McDavid offensively or possibly the game's best ever two-way forward in Bergeron, but he's not suddenly garbage because he had a bad play or two. Sure, there are things I wish he would do more of, but he still works his butt off most nights and has to deal with our terrible media everyday. 

 

That being said we are clearly trending towards trading him so I just hope we get good value back that can jump start a rebuild.

I don't think most fans think Horvat is garbage. I think it is more about what the team would be getting for an $8M+ contract. Horvat is great on the PP and at the dot but lacks an all-round game at the $8M level.

 

Something isn't working with this team and they need to move on from the current vets and hand the reigns to the younger group to see if they can lead the franchise to the playoffs. Mgmt made a mistake with Miller and can't do the same with Horvat. Hopefully they can move Miller as well.

 

 

Edited December 19, 2022 by 5nothincanucksohno

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, jyu said:

They don't really have any sexy prospects as far as I can tell.

 

I hope a trade materializes with either Colorado or NYR.

 

Allvin said we aren’t interested in picks/prospects though.  So who does Vegas have that 22-25 we would want for Bo. 

[jyu]

24 minutes ago, Diamonds said:

Horvat has had maybe 3 off games this season, one of which was the season opener. The only forward on the roster with more blocked shots than Horvat is Pettersson. He's been incredibly consistent this season. Yes, Bo had a pretty meh game on Saturday (but was still 71% on faceoffs and scored a goal). He missed an attempt to block a shot and suddenly he's being vilified as not giving effort and not caring about the success of this team? 

 

I don't understand this fanbase sometimes. No, Horvat is obviously not a McDavid offensively or possibly the game's best ever two-way forward in Bergeron, but he's not suddenly garbage because he had a bad play or two. Sure, there are things I wish he would do more of, but he still works his butt off most nights and has to deal with our terrible media everyday. 

 

That being said we are clearly trending towards trading him so I just hope we get good value back that can jump start a rebuild.

Some of the Horvat bashers on this forum are ridiculous.

 

The worst ones are the Miller lovers. They somehow have this unfounded hate on Bo and any fan who defends out of respect for Bo.

 

Horvat is going to be traded, we all expect this now. That doesn't mean we need to start hating on Bo.

 

[jyu]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

Allvin said we aren’t interested in picks/prospects though.  So who does Vegas have that 22-25 we would want for Bo. 

I don't trust a single thing that Allvin or Rutherford say.

 

As far as I can tell, they are just making things up as they go.

[Alflives]

Just now, jyu said:

Some of the Horvat bashers on this forum are ridiculous.

 

The worst ones are the Miller lovers. They somehow have this unfounded hate on Bo and any fan who defends out of respect for Bo.

 

Horvat is going to be traded, we all expect this now. That doesn't mean we need to start hating on Bo.

 

Love Bo.  But if we do trade him, then he’s hated and any new guys coming back will be loved.  

#hateallothers. 

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, jyu said:

I don't trust a single thing that Allvin or Rutherford say.

 

As far as I can tell, they are just making things up as they go.

I think they’re following the direction from our owner. 

[jyu]

2 hours ago, Gurn said:

Yes, way back- last year       J.T. played center.

He scored enough points to off set his bad defence- this year he did not outscore his center ice deficiencies.

So they put him with Bo- where he has assisted on less than half of Bo's goals, but at least J.T.'s plus minus has stabilized at minus 11.

 

The team signed the wrong guy, and soon the team will have to pay for that mistake.

I think JT can still play center if he is flanked by a good defensive winger who can support him along the boards and make up for defensive gaffs.

 

He played well with Pearson for that reason IMO.

 

Pearson was great along the boards, winning the puck battles and getting the puck on Miller's stick. And because he ties up the opponents so well along the board, they were able to keep the puck in the offensive zone, eliminating the number of times the opponents go on an od man rush and needing to skate back 200ft to defend.

 

Looking at the stats from natural stat trick verifies this.

 

Over 454 minutes at 5-on-5 on the same line, Tanner and JT had GF/60 of 3.17 to GA/60 of 1.98. Their xGF/60 was 3.06 to xGA/60 of 2.42. So they scored at a better rate than expected while allowing less than the expected number of goals. A big win.

 

But look JT w/o Tanner. Over 698 minutes at 5-on-5, he had 2.92 GF/60 to 2.49 GA/60. Not bad  but the most telling stat is his 2.46xGF/60 to 2.7 GA/60. 

 

In other words, even last season when Miller put up monster numbers, he was expected to allow more goals than score over 60 minutes when playing without Tanner Pearson.

 

My conclusion is that we need a board warrior like Tanner if we want Miller to play as a center. 

 

Source: https://www.naturalstattrick.com/linestats.php?fromseason=20212022&thruseason=20212022&stype=2&sit=5v5&score=all&rate=y&team=VAN&vteam=ALL&view=wowy&loc=B&gpfilt=none&fd=2021-10-12&td=2022-05-01&tgp=2000&strict=incl&p1=0&p2=8476871&p3=8476468&p4=0&p5=0

 

[jyu]

7 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I think they’re following the direction from our owner. 

Francesco: Hi JR, since we were so close to the playoffs, can we re-sign Miller and go for it again?

JR: Alright. We can do that.

PA: But JR, you told the media that you were not going to give in to JT's contract demands.

JR: Shush! PA! Our owner has spoken.

PA: Yes master.

 

Something like that?

 

[jyu]

13 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Love Bo.  But if we do trade him, then he’s hated and any new guys coming back will be loved.  

#hateallothers. 

Bo is one guy that I probably won't hate. Maybe over time my mind may change.

 

Well, as long as he doesn't play for the Bruins.

 

[Fanuck]

25 minutes ago, jyu said:

They don't really have any sexy prospects as far as I can tell.

 

I hope a trade materializes with either Colorado or NYR.

 

I'm hoping for a home run like everybody else,  but I'll accept prospects who have high likelihood of playing meaningful if albeit blue-collar positions we don't have right now. 

[Gurn]

one guy in the AHL that might become something good is Podkolzin.

[awalk]

31 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Allvin said we aren’t interested in picks/prospects though.  So who does Vegas have that 22-25 we would want for Bo. 

Did he say that on After Hours? Haven't watched it yet.
They literally said the opposite when they took over. 

[Ted Lasso]

1 minute ago, awalk said:

Did he say that on After Hours? Haven't watched it yet.
They literally said the opposite when they took over. 

https://canucksarmy.com/news/patrik-allvins-lack-concrete-answers-canucks-long-term-future-conjures-alarming-memories-predecessor

[EdgarM]

13 hours ago, 4petesake said:

Sat Shaw speaks out about Bo.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think Sat is bang on. Too many guys on here loking at this with rose colored glasses. When we are not playing well, does Bo do anything to inspire the troops? Ever?

He doesn't hit, doesn't fight and doesn't turn up his effort when the team comes out flat. There is never a "Beast Mode" out of this player because he doesn't have it in him. The problem is that he was the best option when they were handing out the Captaincy and he was the best option at the time. Maybe. 

He is a good player, no doubt, but he is way over rated and he is plain ol asking for too much money. 

There needs to be change on this team and the best way to do this is to finish his tenure as Captain. With strong leadership coming to the group(i.e. Miller,Schenn) it appears to have caused confusion in that dressing room. Confusion that Bo has not been able to rectify. 

I don't know how some of you cannot see the lack of team play and cohesion among this group. We keep changing certain players and coaches yet the problem remains. 

I see the concern as among the leadership group and Bo is right in the middle of that. 

The way that he is dealing with his contract does not spell, "I am a team player" and I am pretty sure the rest of the team sees that. He doesn't want to deal with his contract during the season but he doesn't want to cause interference with the team, does that make sense? If he was sincere, he would have agreed to the last contract and moved on. I don't think the last offer was unreasonable. 

He is doing a pretty good job padding his stats this year but the TEAM IS STILL LOSING! If you are not a part of the solution then you are a part of the problem.

[Diamonds]

28 minutes ago, jyu said:

I don't trust a single thing that Allvin or Rutherford say.

 

As far as I can tell, they are just making things up as they go.

Ya, that's something that definitely concerns me. It's still early so I'm willing to see if they can change my mind but it feels like they're constantly changing the direction they want to go.

 

"We're going to need to evaluate but clearly this team wasn't built right"

"You can't get rid of your best player even though he'll be 30 when his next contract starts and the rest of the core is under 25"

"There are going to be some hard decisions and we have to disregard emotions "

"We're only going to trade for other NHL players who are better than the ones we're shipping out"

"Every player must go"

(Clearly not direct quotes)

[Warhippy]

3 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

 

He is doing a pretty good job padding his stats this year but the TEAM IS STILL LOSING! If you are not a part of the solution then you are a part of the problem.

By this metric literally everyone has to go.

So...I mean gj

[Gurn]

6 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

I think Sat is bang on. Too many guys on here loking at this with rose colored glasses. When we are not playing well, does Bo do anything to inspire the troops? Ever?

He doesn't hit, doesn't fight and doesn't turn up his effort when the team comes out flat. There is never a "Beast Mode" out of this player because he doesn't have it in him. The problem is that he was the best option when they were handing out the Captaincy and he was the best option at the time. Maybe. 

He is a good player, no doubt, but he is way over rated and he is plain ol asking for too much money. 

There needs to be change on this team and the best way to do this is to finish his tenure as Captain. With strong leadership coming to the group(i.e. Miller,Schenn) it appears to have caused confusion in that dressing room. Confusion that Bo has not been able to rectify. 

I don't know how some of you cannot see the lack of team play and cohesion among this group. We keep changing certain players and coaches yet the problem remains. 

I see the concern as among the leadership group and Bo is right in the middle of that. 

The way that he is dealing with his contract does not spell, "I am a team player" and I am pretty sure the rest of the team sees that. He doesn't want to deal with his contract during the season but he doesn't want to cause interference with the team, does that make sense? If he was sincere, he would have agreed to the last contract and moved on. I don't think the last offer was unreasonable. 

He is doing a pretty good job padding his stats this year but the TEAM IS STILL LOSING! If you are not a part of the solution then you are a part of the problem.

you do know that Bo is not the only player on the team, and that the team is losing with ALL their players, right?

Petey is on the team

Miller is on the team Schenn is on the team

Kutz

Mik

and on and on, but the team is still losing.

So, trade them all, should be what you want, not focused on trading just Bo.

 

[Warhippy]

1 hour ago, Fanuck said:

Kinda out of nowhere but interesting - they've made big moves before when nobody thought they would/could::

 

https://www.vegashockeynow.com/2022/12/16/vegas-golden-knights-trade-rumors-bo-horvat-nhl-trade-deadline-2023

Well...

 

yuck but probably not entirely all that bad when you consider how lacking this team is in any sort of prospects or youth of any quality and position which in itself is so absolutely damning it hurts

 

VHN's Proposal: Brossoit, Brisson, Cormier, and a 2023 first round-pick for Horvat with $2,250,000 retained. (Horvat comes in at $3,250,000) 

Edited December 19, 2022 by Warhippy