What will happen now in the new era?

[iceman64]

9 hours ago, -DLC- said:

People get very fixated on age but it isn't "a rule", it's a likelihood that players will decline significantly once they cross the 30 threshold.  But not all do and there are exceptions to that rule if that's what some see it as. Sure, the trend is that players will age out after 30 but you have to assess on an individual basis, not just look at the numbers.  Physical conditioning and lifestyle come into play a great deal. A married guy with a young family isn't out there whooping it up every night and can focus on strength and nutrition, training/fitness/rest and recovery to offset some of what the younger guys can bring. 

 

Plus, factor in "experience" and maturity because those traits also are in their favour. They may know how to pace themselves a little better and not get caught up in mental hurdles that come with sometimes underperforming and the pressures of that.

 

I see proposals for players close to the same age as JT (within a year or two).  Does 12-24 months really make that much of a difference and is it worth "upgrading" based on that factor?  I know looking into his next contract, it could factor in. Or, possibly, couldn't.  We're always wanting to look "in the future" but sometimes the future's now/current and you have to also transition without restarting.

 

JT's game is very much a determined one...he pounces on (and yes, creates them for the other guys too) opportunities and goes without hesitation. He thrusts himself into the play and is hard to push off it.  Instinct and impulse, and sometimes it does backfire for him with the costly turnovers.  But he's a guy running on all cylinders (when he's fully engaged, which is most of the time lately as he seems inspired with new coaches in place).  Sheer will and determination and it's not a matter of him having to rely (only) on speed and skill. He's a force out there and when he goes to the net with a head of steam, even if you can catch him he still can one arm protect the puck through his strength and will.  Age isn't that much of a factor except that guys may slow down and take longer to recover as they get older. Over 30 now comes with health/nutrition and lifestyle education and products that can help sustain optimum performance.  

 

The average age in the NHL is 27.3 (from 2020, so not sure if that's changed much).   30+ doesn't = "done". You really have to look at more than that.

 

I don't discount the fact that those advocating for a deal for JT are looking at his value and what he can bring right now.  AND the possibility that he could walk away for nothing...but he has to be having a pretty good time right now. After a game like last night. Seeing the potential in our team and how he'd also be giving up on that...the what if's, as we contend with some of the league's best and do not look out of place lately.

 

I think the prospect of what he would bring in a trade sometimes ignores what he brings to our team in relation to his contributions in the room and on the ice. It's a double edged sword.

He won't walk for nothing, negotiations will start before the trading deadline next season and if he won't sign then he'd be traded, no GM in his right mind would do otherwise. 

[iceman64]

4 hours ago, IBatch said:

Probert is and always will be the reigning heavyweight champ IMO.   Fought the best of the best for nearly two decades ... can't blame him for losing/winning/drawing to our very own huggy bear - even mentions in his book how it pissed him off he'd never just open up and fight him (although did say Brashear and Laraque were strong boys)... Probert was what an enforcer should be - embodied it, same as Willams, McSorely, Manson and a ton of other guys - that could take a regular shift and wouldn't hurt you.     Goons ... well Probert fought a lot of those all the time, especially later in his career - but don't remember him being part of our team.   Because he wasn't.   But we've had others that did his job and did it well.  

ok it took awhile but my bad, it was joey kocur we picked up who like Probert did his time with the red wings. meh.. my fave of all time is Brash though for us. Loved how he tuned Marty M, that was classic as Pavel's elbow, well not quite as memorable but a close second maybe but one of my fave's was Clouts (then on the Rangers) going bezerk on the islanders in the Salo incident and challenged the whole islander team to anyone who would fight him.. he totally destroyed Salo though.. 

Edited January 29, 2022 by iceman64

[IBatch]

7 hours ago, iceman64 said:

ok it took awhile but my bad, it was joey kocur we picked up who like Probert did his time with the red wings. meh.. my fave of all time is Brash though for us. Loved how he tuned Marty M, that was classic as Pavel's elbow, well not quite as memorable but a close second maybe but one of my fave's was Clouts (then on the Rangers) going bezerk on the islanders in the Salo incident and challenged the whole islander team to anyone who would fight him.. he totally destroyed Salo though.. 

Kocur is said to have the hardest punch in NHL history.   Not a huge guy - but built like a little tank and spent a lot of time in the infirmary with hand injuries from breaking helmets and orbital bones ... Only other guy i remember that broke a helmet was Tony Twist.   Cloutier's "spaz" is legendary lol..Hextall would be proud.   Brashear was one of the most intimidating fighters ever...players didn't want to mess with him after his 30 or so fights with us his second season here i think...every one a win some so lopsided that most of the tough guys would stay away after (ask Cam Russel and Greg Devries lol - whoops bad idea! 6'3 close to 240...".   A "monster" ... 

 

Kocur is a legendary fighter - because like Fraser, one punch is all it took.   Another monster guy we had for a short time is Antoski.   At least as big if not bigger then Brashear, don't think i saw him lose a fight while in Vancouver, at least decisively, actually felt that year he out classed Odjick (who would be second all-time as far as fighters go for us), wasn't as popular but quality of competition was top tier and he man handled lesser opponents, and did great against the best fighters of that era.   Brown and Kocur and Probert, Twist, Simon, Sandman, Odjick, Domi, Berube, Bomber, Crowder, McSorely, Grimson  etc....On Crowder - he fought Probert four times in his career, winning the first one .... made mince meat of the entire league when he arrived until Berube tuned him up (Crowder)... Crowder like Kocur wasn't here long but both excellent fighters. 

 

Coxe had the honour to be Proberts first NHL fight .... it's still considered to be one of the two best hockey fights ever on hockeyfights.com - despite the grainy footage lol ... the other one is Coxe vs Probert 2.0 - both crazy ... We've had some excellent fighters over the years ... it's not often that the linesman let players duke it out like they used too.   But there was one last night with Gadjovich (Green lost my support in part because is this move) against that turd Hathaway.  

 

Edit: Brown was one scary dude.   McSorely went to LA and EDM got him from PHI (the eastern conference was relieved i'm sure lol)...at 6'5" his reach was something ... Don't see many actual KO's, but he was a guy who managed that once or twice a season.   Grimson was a monster too, and Brown ko'ed him with ease as he did with many of the top fighters in the early 90's which says a lot about him (was in his 30's by then).    Asham vs Beagle is the last one i remember.    For us maybe it was Jovo vs Deadmarsh. 

Edited January 29, 2022 by IBatch

[iceman64]

11 hours ago, IBatch said:

Kocur is said to have the hardest punch in NHL history.   Not a huge guy - but built like a little tank and spent a lot of time in the infirmary with hand injuries from breaking helmets and orbital bones ... Only other guy i remember that broke a helmet was Tony Twist.   Cloutier's "spaz" is legendary lol..Hextall would be proud.   Brashear was one of the most intimidating fighters ever...players didn't want to mess with him after his 30 or so fights with us his second season here i think...every one a win some so lopsided that most of the tough guys would stay away after (ask Cam Russel and Greg Devries lol - whoops bad idea! 6'3 close to 240...".   A "monster" ... 

 

Kocur is a legendary fighter - because like Fraser, one punch is all it took.   Another monster guy we had for a short time is Antoski.   At least as big if not bigger then Brashear, don't think i saw him lose a fight while in Vancouver, at least decisively, actually felt that year he out classed Odjick (who would be second all-time as far as fighters go for us), wasn't as popular but quality of competition was top tier and he man handled lesser opponents, and did great against the best fighters of that era.   Brown and Kocur and Probert, Twist, Simon, Sandman, Odjick, Domi, Berube, Bomber, Crowder, McSorely, Grimson  etc....On Crowder - he fought Probert four times in his career, winning the first one .... made mince meat of the entire league when he arrived until Berube tuned him up (Crowder)... Crowder like Kocur wasn't here long but both excellent fighters. 

 

Coxe had the honour to be Proberts first NHL fight .... it's still considered to be one of the two best hockey fights ever on hockeyfights.com - despite the grainy footage lol ... the other one is Coxe vs Probert 2.0 - both crazy ... We've had some excellent fighters over the years ... it's not often that the linesman let players duke it out like they used too.   But there was one last night with Gadjovich (Green lost my support in part because is this move) against that turd Hathaway.  

 

Edit: Brown was one scary dude.   McSorely went to LA and EDM got him from PHI (the eastern conference was relieved i'm sure lol)...at 6'5" his reach was something ... Don't see many actual KO's, but he was a guy who managed that once or twice a season.   Grimson was a monster too, and Brown ko'ed him with ease as he did with many of the top fighters in the early 90's which says a lot about him (was in his 30's by then).    Asham vs Beagle is the last one i remember.    For us maybe it was Jovo vs Deadmarsh. 

Whoa I remember all those guys, and yeah was quite the era that's for sure. 4th line big boys going at it was crazy to see, but I remember especially the Flyers, (my second fave team and Islanders 3rd) so I loved watching the antics, but for the Flyers even Bobby C had teeth missing from fights, and against the MTL cdns were epic. And Bossy Trots and Gillies were fun to watch... I miss those days... but the bench brawls were something else and happened so much the earned the saying, I went to a fight and a hockey game broke out! lol 

[Crabcakes]

I think a lot have missed what Rutherford said which was that Allvin will be making the decisions with respect to trades and moving this team forward.

 

The good news is that the real lean years are behind us and that the core is essentially in place.  For sake of argument, people have identified the bare bones core as Demko, Hughes and Petey.

 

So if Allvin is making the call on trades, he's going to need some time to evaluate the team.  If he's as thorough as they say, I would expect this to consist of the Canucks players, Abbotsford players and all other players in the system.  This is ok because the soonest he needs to do anything is the trade deadline and of course major trades are easier to make in the offseason.

 

Rutherford has also said that there are holes in the line up and I would expect at least some of them to be filled by August.  He has also said that trying to make deals is a lot easier if you have some cap flexibility.  I would expect both of these things to happen.

 

 

[Tom Sestito]

On 1/28/2022 at 7:23 PM, iceman64 said:

He won't walk for nothing, negotiations will start before the trading deadline next season and if he won't sign then he'd be traded, no GM in his right mind would do otherwise. 

Benning would let him walk for free, unquestionably. Then claim he ran out of time. 

So, yes, some gms would do otherwise.

 

[Chris12345]

I predict:

-A few trades

-Missed playoffs

-A first round exit

-Two second round exists

-A few trades

-Fired GM

-Lots of arguing on here where the window continues to exist but somehow slides

[EddieVedder]

On 1/28/2022 at 8:43 AM, Goal:thecup said:

JR said he wanted to make a few changes, which would probably mean letting go of some older guys, getting the group more-tightly together age-wise, making some cap room, and stocking up on youth and picks.

He also said it would be difficult to make moves right now, except for player-for-player deals, due to our cap situation.

Last, he said that new management wanted to get a good look at the team as currently structured before making changes.

 

This, to me, adds up to nothing happening right away, and we have seen this to be true so far.

Covid has made everything more difficult, except getting to see what the team would be like without certain players, and how all the 'minor' players that have subbed in are progressing.

 

I think the success since Boudreau's arrival has been pleasantly surprising for everyone and JR & Co are perhaps re-evaluating JB's collection of players and prospects in light of their performances under the new coach.

One thing is for certain: this team is a hell of a lot better than it was before Boudreau, so I believe they may be re-evaluating timelines for playoff successes.

 

In other words, this team is pretty damn good, and if we make the playoffs this year, our opponents are going to wish they were facing some other team.

We still have quite a bit of time until the TDL, and if we keep winning, there will be no reason for a big tear-down.

 

Because of JR's statement v/v getting 'tighter', I have compiled a list of the oldest team members from capfriendly.com:

 

Halak 36

Hunt 33

Sutter 32

Schenn 32

Hamonic 31

Myers 31

Chiasson 31

Dowling 31

O.E.L. 30

Ferland 29

Pearson 29

 

I know some of them are gone anyway, but that is 10 players older than Miller as the team stands right now.

JT Miller is exactly what we need to Win The Cup, an outstanding player on an outstandingly-underpaid contract, and he will still be exactly what is needed, even with his new contract.

We need more players like this, not less.

There are 10 players I would lose on this list before Miller, and others who are younger.

 

As many have said, unless the return is absolutely ridiculous, I do not think we trade Miller.

With some playoff success this year, and improvements for next year, why wouldn't JT re-sign?

 

We have to quit planning to compete in another 3, 4, 5 years down the road as it takes away our chances to Win The Cup in the present.

We have a good team that will be made better; but hopefully not by trading away the very players that will Win Those Cups for us.

 

We have a chance to make the playoffs, and once we do, we will beat some of these teams who started strong and are just limping in.

Maybe we win it all this year; either way, we will be 'super-keen' (see, I was an adult in the 70's) to get back at it.

 

And hopefully, we will still have Miller at 29 and at only 5 and a quarter mill, Bo at 5.5m, and Demko at 5.0m.

What the hell is wrong with that?  Reload for another run; and another; and another (until we have more cups than spit, spit Montreal).

 

You don't Win The Cup with unproven prospects and draft picks.

You win them with proven warriors and excellent coaching/management.

 

 

Rutherford has brought in tons of 30 plus yr olds as gm of teams so im not sure this post makes any sense.

You with with  mix of players aged 20 to 35. You dont win with a team full of 22 yr olds.

[Toyotasfan]

I like Luke Schenn as a Canuck, his value is sky high right now. I have to wonder what kind of phone calls the Canucks will get for him. 

Tough guy to replace actually.

[Quinn Huges]

We will either win the stanley cup or we don’t 

[Ghostsof1915]

On 1/30/2022 at 10:04 PM, Toyotasfan said:

I like Luke Schenn as a Canuck, his value is sky high right now. I have to wonder what kind of phone calls the Canucks will get for him. 

Tough guy to replace actually.

We can't trade EVERYONE. 

His value will be sky high regardless. Maybe next season at the trade deadline. He's making $850k and has two Stanley Cup rings. Even if he struggles next season

he will still be in demand. 

[mikeyman109]

Allvin hasn't had enough time to make any moves yet. The trade deadline will be the first real opportunity to make any changes and that will look different if we are in the hunt for the playoffs. I cant see them standing pat with the current D we have. I'm sure most here recognize it will take a move to upgrade the back end.

 

Who goes will depend on  what discussions they have with Miller. If he is willing to stay long term they might just move Boeser. He is the most likely trade IMHO. Qualifying at 7.5 will make the salary cap space even tighter and thats something they have publicly said they want to address. Really the only untouchables they have are Demko and Hughes. Any other player you have to listen to the proposals. Its all about what is being offered in return. No matter who is being discussed the opening bid has to include some young RHD prospect that can play.

With 12 Million in salary cap tied to Myers and OEL its tough to compete unless someone or all the others play above their cap hit. Schenn is definitely there. if Hamonic could somehow show up they might not be this bad.

Really it all depends on what management thinks is necessary. If its going to take a longer term fix you even look at moving Horvat, Miller along with Boeser.

Whenever a management changes its not a one move and we are done thing it takes more than a few decisions to take the team over the top. This team has a few good pieces. Its in a lot better place with Bruce getting the most out of the players instead of the least. Dealing from weakness is always tough